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Br0kenB

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Why does this team always ship off their top performers? Bay, Nady, and now McLouth? This is something I have never understood. Is their front office just interested in fantasy baseball? Someone explain this to me.

Will they EVER be good?

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They beat the Mets 11-6 today

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small market

But so is Tampa, right? And they're doing fine. I don't understand why they exist if they just tank it every year and load off all of their good players to perennial contenders...

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I believe that Nady and McLouth (not Bay) had a perceived value that was much higher than their actual value -- in McLouth's case it's because he was the best player on his team. I have no problem with them selling at that point.

The problem that I have is that they didn't get nearly enough for McLouth. Even if all three of these prospects pan out, they could have received more in return.

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It's all about $$ for the Pirates, first and foremost. They are one of the bottom 3 in terms of revenue, barely topping $140 million a year. Because of operating expenses and the like, it's not feasiable for them to spend more than $50 million to field a team.

Now it's important to understand where they are trying to go:

1) They are attempting to spend more money on the draft.

2) They are attempting to be active in the foreign player market.

Now lets look at McLouth's $$:

2009 -- $3.5 million ($2 million base and $1.5 million bonus)

2010 -- $4.5 million

2011 -- $7.75 million ($6.5 million base with $1.25 million buyout in 2012)

2012 -- $9.4 million club option

Pretty manageable, but for the Pirates even $4.5 million is a decent chunk, and in only 2 years he's going to be taking up 1/6th of their payroll followed by a option they can't afford. The Pirates have a surplus of OF prospects, and got another in return for McLouth. Their biggest need is pitchers, two of which they got in the deal. Add to that the fact that McLouth is playing at about his peak, why not trade?

Personally I think they could have done a little better, but this free's up salary and I honestly don't think there going to have as hard a time replacing 90% of McLouth's value with what they have. McCutchen will pick up the slack this year, and they have a few guys who now have a better shot to find time in RF or LF in the future because of the move. I think the move in general was the right one, my biggest problem is that I really don't like the guys they got in return.

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Tampa was a laughing stock until 2 years ago

I'm aware of that but why can't Pittsburgh just try to do the same thing? This is irritating me so much, lmao. And I hate Pittsburgh sports.

I believe that Nady and McLouth (not Bay) had a perceived value that was much higher than their actual value -- in McLouth's case it's because he was the best player on his team. I have no problem with them selling at that point.

The problem that I have is that they didn't get nearly enough for McLouth. Even if all three of these prospects pan out, they could have received more in return.

True, true. Now I am curious as to where Doumit will end up...

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Well they finally took a step in the right direction last year by drafting the BPA for a change, instead of the ETSA - Easiest to sign available. In general they are a complete joke of a franchise.

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Well they finally took a step in the right direction last year by drafting the BPA for a change, instead of the ETSA - Easiest to sign available. In general they are a complete joke of a franchise.

they started off the decade doing this... jason schmidt for nothing, aramis ramirez for bobby hill...cutting pitchers chris young and bronson arroyo when they were about 24....now these latest deals to acquire marginal talent and dump salary..

what's the point? what's the point of a pirate fan buying a ticket? what's the goal of the team here? let someone else who wont mind losing some money for the fun of trying to compete take over...

no winning seasons since 1993

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Doumit is going nowhere. LaRoche, Wilson, Snell are the names that will be available.

you think they would deal wilson? ive always figured he's had pictures of someone - to hang around there as long as he has

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The Pirates did make two very nice moves with Brian Giles:

November 18, 1998: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Pittsburgh Pirates for Ricardo Rincon.

August 26, 2003: Traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates to the San Diego Padres for Jason Bay and Oliver Perez. The San Diego Padres sent Corey Stewart (minors) (October 2, 2003) to the Pittsburgh Pirates to complete the trade.

Even though Giles was pretty good for 5 years with the Padres, you can't argue with what they got in return.

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Why does this team always ship off their top performers? Bay, Nady, and now McLouth? This is something I have never understood. Is their front office just interested in fantasy baseball? Someone explain this to me.

Will they EVER be good?

Not to mention trading away Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill.

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I dont see why people think Doumit is not going anywhere. Just last year the Pirates front office announced that McLouth was the "cornerstone to their franchise". Well so much for that.

Seems like you can have your pick from their team.

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Doumit is going nowhere for two reasons:

1) The injury saps his trade value.

2) His contract:

2009: $2.05 Million

2010: $3.55 Million

2011: $5.1 Million

2012: $7.25 Million

2013: $8.25 Million

If the Pirates are serious about building a winning team, that's a contract you can build around. It's a deal for the talent they're getting, especially since I would argue Doumit is better than McLouth to begin with, and he's locked up longer and for less.

Regardless, if Doumit's to be traded, it won't be until 2011.

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In 2002, The Pirates had the first overall pick and sellected Brian Bullington. He never made it to the majors and just recently retired due to arm problems. Here's a look at some of the other first round picks sellected after Bullington:(2) BJ Upton, (6) Zack Greinke, (7) Prince Fielder, (11) Jeremy Hermida, (12) Joe Saunders, (15) Scott Kazmir, (16) Nick Swisher, (17) Cole Hammels, (19) James Loney, (20) Denard Span, (22) Jeremy Guthrie, (23) Jeff Francoeur, (24) Joe Blanton and (25) Matt Cain.

It's really sad how poorly the organization is run.

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This is just a problem with professional sports in general. What is needed are commissioners who actually have a set...who'll make sure owners are actually spending money to put a product on the field for their fans. I think it's ridiculous how these people run these teams like it's their own personal business. A large part of owning a team is civic pride, there is a duty attached to that that goes beyond dollars and cents. We'll never see a decent resolution to any of this during the Selig era.

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they started off the decade doing this... jason schmidt for nothing, aramis ramirez for bobby hill...cutting pitchers chris young and bronson arroyo when they were about 24....now these latest deals to acquire marginal talent and dump salary..

To be fair, those moves all happened during the tenures of GMs Cam Bonifay or Dave Littlefield.

Those 2 combined managed to turn the Pirates into what they are now, and it's not going to take just 1-2 years to rebuild.

what's the point? what's the point of a pirate fan buying a ticket? what's the goal of the team here? let someone else who wont mind losing some money for the fun of trying to compete take over...

no winning seasons since 1993

Actually, 1992 was their last winning season. B)

After the 2007 season, a total house cleaning occured, with a new team president(Frank Coonelly), a new GM(Neal Huntington), and a new manager(John Russell) all hired. Also, the scouting and player development departments were severely overhauled as well, resulting in a new director of scouting who led the 2008 draft.

The results so far are mixed but encouraging:

--The Jason Bay and Xavier Nady trades brought back a mix of talent, including Andy LaRoche, Bryan Morris, and Jose Tabata.

--They drafted and signed Pedro Alvarez, arguably one of the top players in the 2008 draft pool(despite all the drama). Alvarez will be a cornerstone player for them in the future.

--They are building a team that fits their ballpark--i.e. one that features speedy, defensive outfielders that can run down fly balls in the cavernous PNC Park. McLouth was all right but nothing special in CF for them(I believe his UZR rating put him at -10 runs there?)

McLouth was arguably their best position(and most marketable) player, which is why he ultimately was of value and tradeable. Despite the Pirates being 24-28 currently, they won't contend with their current roster and probably feel the need to cash in on any players who have value.

Having said that, I think GM Huntington may have pulled the trigger a bit too soon. With Holliday and other OFers perhaps being on the trading block later this summer, perhaps he thought now was the time to trade McLouth?

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small market

Hogwash. It's player development a bad moves like the McClouth deal.

They had some young pieces to build around at the MLB level like McClouth, Doumit, and Andy LaRoche. Their minors were quite stacked McCutchen, Tabata and Alvarez.

Instead of moving Sanchez and Wilson to IF starved teams like Boston or Tampa - they trade their best player for package of marshmallow peeps.

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