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Shawn Marion 2009-2010


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I dont usually make bold predictions, but I will today. Not a shot (barring further moves) does Dallas finish top 4. The Lakers, Spurs, Nuggets and Blazers will all finish ahead of them and by considerable margin.

Shrug, I like the Mavs better than all but the Lakers, actually. Their team is deep, athletic and explosive.

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wow I must be nuts then, because I dont see it. Gortat has never proven he can handle and play 30+ min role in the nba. Marion, Gortat, and Kidd are all below average scores at this point in their career. I think that theywill struggle to score points next season. I cant possibly see Dallas being better than Denver or San Antonio especially. Maybe its me.... I can accept that..

Shrug, I like the Mavs better than all but the Lakers, actually. Their team is deep, athletic and explosive.
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wow I must be nuts then, because I dont see it. Gortat has never proven he can handle and play 30+ min role in the nba. Marion, Gortat, and Kidd are all below average scores at this point in their career. I think that theywill struggle to score points next season. I cant possibly see Dallas being better than Denver or San Antonio especially. Maybe its me.... I can accept that..

Where are you coming from with this? He's been in the NBA for 2 years, and every time he's started he's acquitted himself well. Look at his games from last year, including the last game of the Philly series.

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But thats a minuscule, microscopic sample. He's not been battled tested over the duration of a long nba season........

Where are you coming from with this? He's been in the NBA for 2 years, and every time he's started he's acquitted himself well. Look at his games from last year, including the last game of the Philly series.
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But thats a minuscule, microscopic sample. He's not been battled tested over the duration of a long nba season........

Well from the way you worded it, you made it sound like if you played him more than 20 minutes in a game that his body would fall apart. He has proven he can excel in 30 minutes per game, but you're questioning his durability. I guess that really isn't a concern for me. We shall see, I suppose.

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It's a good trade for Dallas, it makes them better, but it doesn't make them real contenders in my opinion. Comparing Kidd now to Nash MVP years is a stretch.

Gortat is a solid big man, but he isn't going to put them over the top. He plays good defense, but he fouls a lot. Playing a full 30 minutes a game everyday definitely makes fatigue an issue.

My real question though, since there isn't a thread for this entire trade, is what exactly the $10mill trade exception is that the Magic got. Is it any sort of cap relief, or just money to the owner?

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It's a good trade for Dallas, it makes them better, but it doesn't make them real contenders in my opinion. Comparing Kidd now to Nash MVP years is a stretch.

Gortat is a solid big man, but he isn't going to put them over the top. He plays good defense, but he fouls a lot. Playing a full 30 minutes a game everyday definitely makes fatigue an issue.

My real question though, since there isn't a thread for this entire trade, is what exactly the $10mill trade exception is that the Magic got. Is it any sort of cap relief, or just money to the owner?

The Magic can use that exception to make a lopsided trade with another team. Trade exceptions can't be combined with other players (i.e. they can't package a $5m contract with a $10m trade exception to trade for a $15m player), but they can be broken up. That is, they could trade nothing for a $4m player and use the rest of their exception to trade for a $6m player.

Basically they can do stuff like trading their exception and a 2nd round pick to another team for a $10m contract that is expiring.

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PG- Kidd

SG- JHo

Sf- Marion

Pf- Dirk

C- Gortat

6th- JET (heard he will be on the court late in games though so not sure how the lineup would look then)

If the mavs can get another really good bench player then I think they will be able to challenge the Lakers for the West this year, but don't count out the Spurs- there team looks really good as well.

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I think most of you guys forgot about JJ Barea & Singleton coming off the bench for the Mavs... I seriously think that they make their bench better than what it actually looks like...

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Well with the Mavs getting royally screwed, losing Gortat AND Bass to the Magic, I'd say that bodes well for Marion fantasy wise since there's less guys to steal his boards. Plus Marion can spell Dirk for the whole 5 minutes he's off the court.

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  • 2 months later...

I'll pass on him in that range. I'd rather have him in the 5th/6th.

While he'll never hurt your team, his goodies are in steep decline. He doesn't shoot 3s at all anymore, with a grand total of 10 3pm in 69 games last year. His combined Stl+Blk dropped below 2.5 for the first time since his rookie year, and splits show that he was a significantly less productive in Blk vs the Western Conference (0.6 blk/gm) than vs the East (1.0 blk/gm).

And those are numbers @ 36 mpg. It's hard to see Marion getting that same type of run with Dirk and Howard around. They might start Howard at SG, but the bulk of the SG minutes are Terry's.

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And those are numbers @ 36 mpg. It's hard to see Marion getting that same type of run with Dirk and Howard around. They might start Howard at SG, but the bulk of the SG minutes are Terry's.

Marion will still get his minutes by playing a lot at the 4....expect to see heavy doses of Kidd/Jet/J-Ho/Marion/Dirk

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Marion will still get his minutes by playing a lot at the 4....expect to see heavy doses of Kidd/Jet/J-Ho/Marion/Dirk

Dirk at C is bad for the Mavs and bad for Dirk. Dirk does a solid job against opposing PFs (14.2 opponent PER), while opposing Cs eat him for breakfast (26.8 opponent PER). Even when Dampier was on the bench last year, Dirk rarely played C. Instead, the backup C was Brandon Bass - even though he's 5" shorter than Dirk.

A look at the Mavs' most-used 5-man units from last year

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL2.HTM

shows Dirk playing C in only one of the Mavs' top 20 lineups (#17).

The last thing the Mavs need is their #1 player, who relies heavily on jumpshots, to sap his legs by having to go against Cs in the post all night. That's why they wanted Gortat, and when that fell through they went out and got Drew Gooden.

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People tend to overlook the fact that Drew Gooden will be getting the most time playing alongside Dirk, under the basket. at Center and/or PF. Gooden is a prolific rebounder. Granted, Marion is a great rebounder too. But Gooden is bigger, and is better suited to play Center while Dirk plays PF. I mean, Gooden is lightyears better at rebounding and putbacks than Eric Dampier. It's about time the Mavs have somebody who can do something productive inside.

Shawn Marion is a perfect fit at Small Forward.

i really like the frontcourt lineup of: Gooden©, Dirk(PF), Marion(SF).

Jason Kidd is gonna be huge this year.

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Dirk at C is bad for the Mavs and bad for Dirk. Dirk does a solid job against opposing PFs (14.2 opponent PER), while opposing Cs eat him for breakfast (26.8 opponent PER). Even when Dampier was on the bench last year, Dirk rarely played C. Instead, the backup C was Brandon Bass - even though he's 5" shorter than Dirk.

A look at the Mavs' most-used 5-man units from last year

http://www.82games.com/0809/0809DAL2.HTM

shows Dirk playing C in only one of the Mavs' top 20 lineups (#17).

The last thing the Mavs need is their #1 player, who relies heavily on jumpshots, to sap his legs by having to go against Cs in the post all night. That's why they wanted Gortat, and when that fell through they went out and got Drew Gooden.

But Marion gives them the kind of length and athleticism they've never had. They won't play a traditional center like Damp or Gooden every minute of every game, they will run that smaller lineup when the matchup is favorable.

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But Marion gives them the kind of length and athleticism they've never had. They won't play a traditional center like Damp or Gooden every minute of every game, they will run that smaller lineup when the matchup is favorable.

The combined mpg for Dampier + Bass last year was 42 mpg.

Diop averaged 13 mpg, but played just 34 games. Hollins played 10 mpg, but played only 27 games. Still, if you combine them it comes out to ~12 mpg over 61 games.

Dallas' PACE was 16th in the league. They're middle of the pack in terms of running, they're not NY or GS. Dallas had about as many possessions per 48 minutes last year as Toronto did.

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The combined mpg for Dampier + Bass last year was 42 mpg.

Diop averaged 13 mpg, but played just 34 games. Hollins played 10 mpg, but played only 27 games. Still, if you combine them it comes out to ~12 mpg over 61 games.

Dallas' PACE was 16th in the league. They're middle of the pack in terms of running, they're not NY or GS. Dallas had about as many possessions per 48 minutes last year as Toronto did.

Thanks for making my point for me. They did not have Marion last year, so of course they had to divide the minutes between Damp, Bass, and the other spares you listed. Nice straw man never did I imply they are going to be GS or NY....they will not play a smaller lineup primarily, rather situationally to maximize the talents Marion brings to the table.

Back to your original assertion that Marion will have a hard time getting 36 minutes this year....my point being that I see Marion playing the majority of the time at SF but also getting 10-15 minutes per game at the 4 with the C/PF primarily occupied by Gooden, Damp, and Dirk on occasion.

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Thanks for making my point for me. They did not have Marion last year, so of course they had to divide the minutes between Damp, Bass, and the other spares you listed. Nice straw man never did I imply they are going to be GS or NY....they will not play a smaller lineup primarily, rather situationally to maximize the talents Marion brings to the table.

Back to your original assertion that Marion will have a hard time getting 36 minutes this year....my point being that I see Marion playing the majority of the time at SF but also getting 10-15 minutes per game at the 4 with the C/PF primarily occupied by Gooden, Damp, and Dirk on occasion.

None of Marion's length/athleticism is going to allow him to play C, and Dallas doesn't like Dirk playing C. Again, out of Dallas' top 20 lineups last year, only 1 featured Dirk playing C. Dirk's their franchise player, you don't move him out of position to accomodate a guy like Marion. Dirk's the guy they want to maximize, not Marion.

Marion is not a replacement for Bass. They might both be 6'7", but Bass outweighs Marion by 20+ lbs. This allows Bass to guard opposing Cs, while Marion cannot. And if Marion is playing the majority of the SF minutes, where is Josh Howard? If Howard plays the bulk of the minutes at SG, where is Jason Terry? Terry is a 34 mpg player and Howard when healthy is a 36 mpg player. That's 26 mpg avaialble, and that's assuming that Terry and Howard are never on the bench together.

And to top it off, Marion is at the back end of his prime (if he's even in it anymore) who's been in decline for 3 years. Assuming 0% decline this year AND 36mpg, he's still late 3rd material. And that assumes that many of the players ranked below him in the season-long ranks (Harris, B. Lopez, Nash, J. Richardson, Salmons, Iguodala, Ellis, Horford, Bargnani, Barbosa, B. Gordon) will not surpass him - even though all of those guys outperformed Marion over the last 2 months of 2008-09, and appear to be on the rise in terms of fantasy value.

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None of Marion's length/athleticism is going to allow him to play C, and Dallas doesn't like Dirk playing C. Again, out of Dallas' top 20 lineups last year, only 1 featured Dirk playing C. Dirk's their franchise player, you don't move him out of position to accomodate a guy like Marion. Dirk's the guy they want to maximize, not Marion.

Marion is not a replacement for Bass. They might both be 6'7", but Bass outweighs Marion by 20+ lbs. This allows Bass to guard opposing Cs, while Marion cannot. And if Marion is playing the majority of the SF minutes, where is Josh Howard? If Howard plays the bulk of the minutes at SG, where is Jason Terry? Terry is a 34 mpg player and Howard when healthy is a 36 mpg player. That's 26 mpg avaialble, and that's assuming that Terry and Howard are never on the bench together.

Ok well if you don't want to listen to me, try listening to Donnie Nelson. Straight from today's RW blurb on Dampier:

"During a recent press conference Mavericks president Donnie Nelson mentioned having "Erick Dampier coming off the bench."

Nelson clarified that he was referring to the team's versatility at center -- Dampier, Drew Gooden, and Dirk Nowitzki. There are also wildcards Kirk Humphries, Tim Thomas and Shawn Marion, each of whom could play C in certain situations. The bottom line is that Dampier's fantasy relevance is hanging by a thread."

Also below is a link with from the FW star telegram with Donnie Nelson saying that Dirk, Damp, Gooden, and Marion will all play some minutes at center.

http://startelegramsports.typepad.com/mavs...ot-so-fast.html

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  • 3 weeks later...

Im warming up to a Matrix Reload this year... He had a monster first game with Kidd and gang, he has to obvioulsy be rejuvenated after playing in Toronto and Miami the last couple of years, JHoward is out indefinitely and can't stay healthy any ways..it just looks like a really good situation for Marion to get back to a 17,8 line with a bunch of rips and blocks..With Howard out for a little while it looks like, Matrix will be counted on to score some points..and hopefully that will jump start him and find his nitch even when Howard returns..i think he will be great value in the 3rd round this year..

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Another old fashion game from the Matrix..or at least on pace for one..15,4,1 in just 17 mins tonight..anyone else starting to feel a top 25 year coming from him this year?

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