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Oscar Taveras - OF STL


crotchcrickets

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I don't want to be "that guy" but does anyone have an idea of when we should expect to see him in the majors? End of May maybe?

Unless there's a trade, I just don't see where he fits. He's not playing CF in the minors, they're not going to sit Craig or Holliday, and most likely not Adams. Plus, Jay/Bourjos.

I'm kind of feeling September; just my opinion of course

I don't think Jay/Bourjos are going to cut it all season. They could call him for the playoff run, or it could be sooner if Jay/Bourjos are struggling. Really is tough to call. The safe call is a late season call-up, though. I'm so ready to see him in a big league uniform, though. So sick of talking about him as a prospect and all these "what ifs."

I'm with you. Would be nice if he gets hot for a 2 week stretch and shows his ankle is 100% in the past.

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Problem for the Cards is they need him in RF. Holliday is already awful on D, then you add Craig in who looks just as bad and its gt nothing but bad news written all over it for STL pitching and their win totals.

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I don't want to be "that guy" but does anyone have an idea of when we should expect to see him in the majors? End of May maybe?

Unless there's a trade, I just don't see where he fits. He's not playing CF in the minors, they're not going to sit Craig or Holliday, and most likely not Adams. Plus, Jay/Bourjos.

I'm kind of feeling September; just my opinion of course

I don't think Jay/Bourjos are going to cut it all season. They could call him for the playoff run, or it could be sooner if Jay/Bourjos are struggling. Really is tough to call. The safe call is a late season call-up, though. I'm so ready to see him in a big league uniform, though. So sick of talking about him as a prospect and all these "what ifs."

The thing about the Jay/Bourjos situation is, he's not playing CF in the minors. And that was the whole thing last him, him trying it out, Cards not really having comfort with that. So it seems like the team isn't going to throw him out there at the big league level just for his bat.

If Bourjos can play great defense and hit .250, I think they'll choose that

Sept call up, huge bench potential, etc would be great. Like last season, if he's not hurt, he's up for the playoffs

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Suppose peralta sucks real bad, would the cards move wong to short, carpenter back to 2B, and give Craig some time at third? (Which would free up the OF for taveras)

They signed Peralta for 4 years, and he's making 15.5 mil this year. not going anywhere....he'd have to be historically awful for that to happen

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They also signed international SS Aledmys Diaz who they have playing in the minors. We're only 9 games into a long season, relax, sit back and enjoy one of America's favorite past times, pop a cold one, spark a twisted one, whatever floats your boat, but Oscar is not coming up anytime soon, things will shake out when the time is right, not before.

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You have a lot of really good questions. More likely holliday or Craig get injured or jay bourjas sucks. Cards have had zero O at ss for years why start now?

I thought the Cards usually wanted a good defensive shortstop regardless of hitting. If Peralta kicks around groundballs and his bat scuffles, I find it hard they don't make a move because he would not offer anything on the table.

I remember the Red Sox made a 4-year deal with Lugo 7 or so years back. It was painful to watch him at the plate and on the field. He looked like a goalie at short, kick "saves" everywhere. It took the Sox 2.5 seasons to finally find a suitor.

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I think the cards will make the space when he proves he can hit and stay healthy. I own him and would love to have him raking for my team, but we have to be patient, the guy is 21 years old, his floor is as high as any prospect's has been in the last year and we'll benefit from his raking when he takes his place, they won't just hand it to him.

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boy.... oscar taveras has got a real balanced, smooth swing... I really hope that he gets called up to get at least 300 PA this year. I doubt it will happen, unless he REALLY kills at at the AAA level. So far, he's killing it this season, albeit the small sample size. I imagine he'd need to at least have upwards of a 1.100 OPS to even get consideration of getting called up for ample playing time.

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I recall Bourjos was manning CF for the angels in 2012 before Trout was called up. Funny he's on the Cards now with a phenom prospect waiting in the wings again. Too bad Oscar doesn't play CF, or at least not yet.

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I honestly don't know how this situation resolves itself. Let me layout the possibilities as I see them and someone can correct me.

Assumptions:

  1. Tavares hits well enough in AAA for the Cardinals to believe he is ready.
  2. The Cardinals aren't going to call up Tavares only to use him as a part time player. IF he's coming up, it's to play a significant portion of any split.

Possibilities (in order of likelihood as I see them):

  1. Matt Adams and/or Allen Craig get hurt. Maybe Bourjos suffering a serious injury as well.
  2. Matt Adams shows he's a platoon player (Currently hitting .182 against lefties - only 5 games though), Allen Craig returns to 1B, Tavares to OF. They do some sort of scheme where Adams, Craig and Tavares are sharing the 2 positions based upon splits.
  3. Allen Craig demonstrates he can't successfully play the OF, thus necessitating a return to 1B. Tavares to OF or a similar scheme as number 2.
  4. Tavares simply is kept in AAA
  5. Peter Bourjos hits poorly enough for Tavares to be considered in CF with PB likely being used as a defensive replacement late in games.

Note: 3 & 4 are probably equally as unlikely to happen imo.

Am I missing anything here?

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As much as everyone wants to see him come up soon, I agree with the sentiment that there will need to be a corner OF position available. With his ankle injuries, and more importantly, Bourjos's Gold Glove D in CF, there is just a bad fit there. The Cards are contenders, so they wouldn't delay things solely for Super-2 arbitration delay - but if there's no obvious roster fit, then they're not going to pass up future savings, either. When it was only Jay, there wasn't enough of a D gap when Taveras was healthy last year - but now, the equation has changed with Bourjos in CF, and Taveras with a lot of health concerns with his legs.

I realize that puts a greater obstacle with Allen Craig & Matt Holliday as the corner OF's, but until Taveras shows he can play 50-60 games straight healthy, there is little chance the Cards would sacrifice the D that Bourjos brings to the table. As a #8 hitter, sure he's a fantasy black hole, but the Cards care little about we FBB owners. From a pure baseball perspective, saving runs with D is just as valuable as creating runs with the bat.

I say this as someone who wants to see Taveras up, so take it FWIW (I don't own any STL OF's in any league, so I've got no dog in this hunt).

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I realize that puts a greater obstacle with Allen Craig & Matt Holliday as the corner OF's, but until Taveras shows he can play 50-60 games straight healthy, there is little chance the Cards would sacrifice the D that Bourjos brings to the table. As a #8 hitter, sure he's a fantasy black hole, but the Cards care little about we FBB owners. From a pure baseball perspective, saving runs with D is just as valuable as creating runs with the bat.

You are probably right on St. Louis' assessment of the situation right now.

However, how many runs can Bourjos save per year over Taveras in CF? I would think the difference in runs created with the bat would be far greater. Taveras would have a lot of average AND power on Bourjos.

Taveras will probably play multiple OF positions to get his bat in the lineup sometime after the ASB.

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I realize that puts a greater obstacle with Allen Craig & Matt Holliday as the corner OF's, but until Taveras shows he can play 50-60 games straight healthy, there is little chance the Cards would sacrifice the D that Bourjos brings to the table. As a #8 hitter, sure he's a fantasy black hole, but the Cards care little about we FBB owners. From a pure baseball perspective, saving runs with D is just as valuable as creating runs with the bat.

You are probably right on St. Louis' assessment of the situation right now.

However, how many runs can Bourjos save per year over Taveras in CF? I would think the difference in runs created with the bat would be far greater. Taveras would have a lot of average AND power on Bourjos.

Taveras will probably play multiple OF positions to get his bat in the lineup sometime after the ASB.

Because Bourjos is an excellent baserunner and doesn't get caught much, he averages out as a slightly-better-than replacement level O player. His D makes him a 3-4 WAR player with that production - which is hard to be purely from the bat perspective.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/cardinals-continue-being-smart-acquire-peter-bourjos/

Again, I say all the above believing Taveras is a special bat, and his bat will eventually shine - but remember that few rookies shine right away. When I look at the fact that the Cards also won't likely want to put a greater injury risk on Taveras and let him focus on playing a corner OF spot, I just don't see the same fit as in 2013, when all Taveras had to do was beat out Jay.

No doubt we'll still see him - but for those hoping for Jay to struggle, that isn't the key - Bourjos gets hurt, or Allen/Craig, then there's hope. Other than that, I think we see the midseason callup, and him spelling guys, and a lethal PH bat (starts 2-3 games a week, PH's 4 at best, barring injury). The way STL treated Matt Adams is a good example of their model (and yes, Taveras is special, but unless Holliday or Craig are injured, FT AB's seem murkier).

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