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what are your keeper rules?


ssmarsh

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I understand the season is over, but seeing all these "keeper help" posts popping up now it boggling my mind. Doesn't the regular season start 7 months from now? When are your keeper lists due, next week? B)

In my 10 team, AL only, $260 auction league our 7 player keeper lists are due the Monday before our draft, which is always the first Saturday after the season starts (we draft after the season starts so we know what the final 25 man rosters are). As with many auction keeper leagues, the kept players salary counts towards your $260 total draft budget. We have long term contract rules which cost you $5 extra per year for a max of two additional years.

Since my season was over in June, I dumped all my high salary players to acquire potential cheap keepers. If I had to send in my list today, which I obviously don't, my keepers would be:

OF Alex Rios - LT10, $13

1B Ryan Garko - B, $1

2B Mark Ellis - B, $1

SP Kelvim Escobar - B, $6

SP Jon Lester - B, $1

SP Zack Greinke - B, $3

SP Francisco Liriano - B, $4

All that adds up to a miniscule $29, which is nice for the players involved. Is this list final? Not by a long shot (Liriano is the biggest question mark), but it's pretty close.

What are your leagues keeper rules?

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Pretty much the same..except we can keep up to 11..I traded away most of my cheap talent so my keepers next year will be miserable..guess it's time to rebuild. My current roster

Mauer $20

Napoli $5

Mirabelli $1

Punto $2

Cassila $5

Y. Betancourt $3

ARod $55

Vlad $55

Buscher $5

Crisp $8

Kubel $3

Thames $15

Kielty $1

Gibbons $9

Andy Gonzalez $10

Baker $16

Rafael Perez $5

R. Betancourt $2

Neshek $10

Gabbard $6

Danks $2

Davies $6

Riske $3

Edwar Ramirez $2

Kazmir $28

Bale $1

Clement $1

Joel Peralta $1

Perkins $1

Robinson Tejeda $1

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, we have a Dec. 1 keeper deadline, with the provision that you can drop any player who gets released/demoted to the minors/sent to the DL up until Draft Day - they then go back into the regular or minors draft. This is mainly because we're AL-only, and we used to get a *ton* of NL-to-AL trades that involved players who wouldn't have been kept by the owners, but got lucky (I got Tino Martinez for $10 when he joined the Yanks, as an example). In a mixed league, not sure why the early deadline would be put into place, but I can see why AL-only and NL-only leagues would do it (unless you don't allow owners to keep new players who come over in trades for one of their own players).

In our 10-team keeper league, we get 15 keepers, and up to 4 minor league spots. We have to fix our keeper salaries on the 3rd year of our big-league contracts ($5 per year more per extra year). One point - because we're also auction-based, very few teams actually go up to 15 spots. One year, I only had 2 players to start the year (and actually won that year, LOL)!

For me, I've got the following keepers:

C Mauer $6 Final

1B Pena $10

CI Kotchman $2 (all the AL-only worthwhile 1B's except Morneau are being kept)

3B Figgins $21

SS Peralta $15

2B Upton $20 3-years

OF D. Young $11 3-years

OF M. Cuddyer $13 Final

SP Sabathia $18 Final

SP Liriano $10

SP J. Shields $1

RP H. Street $16

I actually like the earlier deadline, as it cleans up the trash on rosters, and prevents flukes for the *most* part - a guy kept M. Batista for $11 in our league (!!!), and lucked into Glaus (for 3B in AL-only, that was a very low price for 2006), but otherwise, owners don't get to keep big-name traded players who enter our league unless it's for keepers on our roster.

One other point - you had commented earlier in another thread on a league having too many keepers - I'd actually argue it's a bigger help to promote trading in-season - you see a lot more guys interested in rebuilding for next season with cheap players if the overall # keepers is higher, so long as it's auction/salary-based, IMO. Food for thought.

Hope that helps,

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Well, we have a Dec. 1 keeper deadline, with the provision that you can drop any player who gets released/demoted to the minors/sent to the DL up until Draft Day
Wow, that's early! Before spring training has even started? Why bother sending in lists that early when MLB rosters are nowhere near final?
One point - because we're also auction-based, very few teams actually go up to 15 spots. One year, I only had 2 players to start the year (and actually won that year, LOL)!

We're auction based as well and our 7 keepers is a MAX...there's no saying you have to keep that many. Most teams in my league keep the full 7 every year.

One other point - you had commented earlier in another thread on a league having too many keepers - I'd actually argue it's a bigger help to promote trading in-season - you see a lot more guys interested in rebuilding for next season with cheap players if the overall # keepers is higher, so long as it's auction/salary-based, IMO. Food for thought.

I disagree. If a championship team manages to build a really solid core of 12-15 players and is able to keep all those players, they can form a dynasty which can kill a roto league. The thing I like about the lower number of keepers is that you know there will be good talent available on draft day so many teams have a shot at winning or finishing in the money.

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Wow, that's early! Before spring training has even started? Why bother sending in lists that early when MLB rosters are nowhere near final?

Again, as I mentioned in my 1st reply, it's aimed at preventing NL players from coming over to the AL in trades and owners acquiring the players at ridiculous prices for players they had no intention of keeping. If you don't have a system for NL players coming over in trades to be linked to the team that lost the player going to the NL, not a problem, but if you do attach NL players to the AL players who are traded to the NL, then it can be a problem.

I disagree. If a championship team manages to build a really solid core of 12-15 players and is able to keep all those players, they can form a dynasty which can kill a roto league. The thing I like about the lower number of keepers is that you know there will be good talent available on draft day so many teams have a shot at winning or finishing in the money.

In our league, which has being going on for 15+ years, there's been *no* back-to-back winner. In theory, your argument has merit, but in practice our league ends up having 2 or 3 teams that just load up to win that year. By having more keepers available, our league actually ends up having a freqent turnover of "power" teams, as our contract lengths and the high # keepers makes it very possible for teams to dump all of their low-priced keepers to load up for one year, and in the last 3 years, it's been pretty much necessary to go all-out to take home the gold in our league.

In the end, I don't think there's a *best* system for any one league - I'd say our system works really well, given that we get a fair amount of trades in, and we've never had repeat champions. Plus, our league has had the same 8 core owners out of 10 for the whole league, so it's a system that we tweak constantly, but the principles have been been time-testd & well-received. Doesn't mean it's the right system for all, but as I said before, food for thought.

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I don't know why but our keeper are due by the end of the week. It is a 12 team, head to head, AL and NL, Yahoo league, keep 9, start c,1,2,3,ss,lf,cf,rf,util,util,sp,sp,rp,rp,p,p,p

There is no salary, so my keepers are:

Morneau

Kendrick

Braun

Hanley Ramirez

Sizemore

Guerrero

Verlander

Valverde

Papelbon

Did I make the right choices, or should I have kept Bay, Beltre, Rich Hill, Manny Corpas, or Jeff Francis instead?

I considered all of them. My last two keepers were Valverde for his league leading saves and Kendrick for his youth, potential and eligibility at the shallow 2b position.

Any opinions helpful. Thanks.

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Again, as I mentioned in my 1st reply, it's aimed at preventing NL players from coming over to the AL in trades and owners acquiring the players at ridiculous prices for players they had no intention of keeping. If you don't have a system for NL players coming over in trades to be linked to the team that lost the player going to the NL, not a problem, but if you do attach NL players to the AL players who are traded to the NL, then it can be a problem.
Maybe I don't get it, but I don't see how this is a problem. We're an AL only leage as well and anyone who was in the NL at the end of the season and comes over to the AL during the off-season can't be dealt for anyway since he was never on anyone's roster when the season ended. He simply becomes available to be purchased at the next draft.
In our league, which has being going on for 15+ years, there's been *no* back-to-back winner. In theory, your argument has merit, but in practice our league ends up having 2 or 3 teams that just load up to win that year.

We pay the top 4 places in my 10 team league and have had many money finishers. We just finished year 8 of our league and finally had our 4th different team win. One team has one 3 times (never consecutive), one won twice (not consecutive), another won twice (consecutive) and the 4th won for the 1st time this year. The three multiple winners, one of which is me, are the more attentive owners in the league who tend to draft better than the others. We have one team in our league who just finished his 7th year and has yet to finish higher than 5th. He's a good guy, but not a very good drafter so his team is usually in a hole from day 1.

By having more keepers available, our league actually ends up having a freqent turnover of "power" teams, as our contract lengths and the high # keepers makes it very possible for teams to dump all of their low-priced keepers to load up for one year, and in the last 3 years, it's been pretty much necessary to go all-out to take home the gold in our league.

My season was over early this year so I dumped all my high priced talent to load up on keepers so I can relate.

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Maybe I don't get it, but I don't see how this is a problem. We're an AL only leage as well and anyone who was in the NL at the end of the season and comes over to the AL during the off-season can't be dealt for anyway since he was never on anyone's roster when the season ended. He simply becomes available to be purchased at the next draft.

In our league, if an NL player comes over in a trade (not via free agency), then first rights to that player go the team who owned the highest-salaried player - for instance, when the Big Unit came over for Vazquez & Dionner Navarro, Vazquez's owner automatically got the rights to Johnson for Vazquez's salary (which at that time was $11). This applies both during the season and in the offseason.

While it didn't end up being a huge deal in the end, at the time it was a *huge* acquisition. To go back further, I got Tino Martinez (and his perennial 30-35 HR, 110 RBI, 100 run seasons) at a great $10 salary for 2 seasons and $15 for 2 more seasons after that because I still had Russ Davis (a WW pickup on my team) when the trade went down during the December winter meetings. Now, if your league says any offseason NL players just go the FA pool, I can see why you don't see it's a problem. But, in leagues where NL players that come over in trades do get assigned first to teams that have players that go back to the NL, an important priority is to eliminate the non-keepers off teams' rosters.

Put it another way - imagine that Adam Dunn gets traded for Ervin Santana @ $12, Casey Kotchman @ $9 and Nick Adenhart (minors guy) - the team owner that still has Santana @ $12 would get a 40 HR guy for a great price, and that's a guy he *wouldn't* be keeping for sure - the other 2 guys are out of luck. The Kotchman owner might be keeping him at that price (AL-only), or he might not, but he'd be p*ssed that he got bumped for a non-keeper player who wasn't removed earlie. Because our system really rewards teams that keep cheap players, it becomes important for teams to release the true dead weight guys. Truthfully, the earlier deadline usually forces teams to release borderline value guys, and the DL/minors exemption allows team owners that get a player injured/demoted to simply go back into the pool. If a guy comes over in NL-AL deal for a keeper, then our league says good for that owner - more often than not, owners also get screwed the other way (Teixeira's owner got royally screwed for this year, and because Salty was on the MLB roster, he had to either keep Salty @ $34 or stick Andrus in his minors - he obviously kept Andrus, and waved goodbye to his money hopes for this year) - so if owners get screwed by bad trades, our league says owners can benefit when a star comes back the other way. BUT, because we do that, then we also don't want owners to benefit by having dead-weight guys on their roster that might be throw-in players in a big deal, and the time that usually happened was during the December winter meetings - *that's* why our rosters have to be set before Dec. 1 (approx).

FWIW, your league seems pretty balanced too - in our league, we have two 3-time winners (I'm one of them), three 2-time winners, and five out of the remaining seven owners that have won once. There's only one guy who's been with us from the start who hasn't won, and like your guy, he's just a bad drafter that doesn't pay attention during the season, and is almost impossible to trade with as he over-values his players tremendously - a triple-whammy. The other owner who hasn't won has only been in our league 3 seasons, and is just getting the nuances of our league. I guess this demonstrates my earlier point - your system seems to work well for your league, but ours does too - different systems can work, and different rules call for different timelines. If you have a league where teams can potentially land a superstar NL player in a trade depending on which AL player (at the highest salary) goes back to the NL, then an earlier deadline is necessary. I don't get why it would be necessary in a mixed league, as there would be no such thing as "new" players coming in, but I do see the point in NL-only & AL-only leagues where players can be acquired if a team owns the rights to the other players involved in the trade.

Hope that helps,

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In our league, if an NL player comes over in a trade (not via free agency), then first rights to that player go the team who owned the highest-salaried player
That clears it up. Not sure I like that rule, but each league to it's own!
I guess this demonstrates my earlier point - your system seems to work well for your league, but ours does too - different systems can work, and different rules call for different timelines.

Exactly. If the system you have in place works for you guys, then that's all there is to say. One of the nuances of my league which I've found to be more unique than I thought it would be is our in-season FA pickup system. We have no waiver claim or FAAB system, but we do 4 monthly drop/adds where teams can drop 2 players from their roster and pick up 2 new ones. The order is based on the standings with the last place team picking first. The players that get picked up arew assigned a salary of $0 and can't be kept the following year. We like it because it places more importance on drafting well and we hope it promotes trading. Also, the picks can be dealt which is always fun for the drop/adds near and after the trade deadline.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I'm a little new to this Auction Style, I was curious as to how the draft, or auction would work. I'm assuming going through some sort of list of players and high bid gets them with each team getting a certain amount of money to spend? and how do the salaries change of the keepers after the first year, is that the $5 i'm seeing in most posts?

Thanks for the help.

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I'm a little new to this Auction Style, I was curious as to how the draft, or auction would work. I'm assuming going through some sort of list of players and high bid gets them with each team getting a certain amount of money to spend?
Bingo. The standard team payroll is $260 to fill 23 roster spots (14 hitters, 9 pitchers). The draft is simple...one team nominates a player at a certain dollar amount and you go around the table bidding until only one team is left then they get the player. Once that's done, the next team nominates someone, and so on and so on and so on until all the teams in the league have full rosters.
and how do the salaries change of the keepers after the first year, is that the $5 i'm seeing in most posts?

That's up to each individual league. In my league, you can keep the player for either 1 or 2 seasons at the draft price, then you have to decide if you want to long term them or not. It costs $5 for each LT year. Here's an example, if you drafted player X at $5:

Year A = $5

Year B = $5

Year C = $5 (then he has to go back after the season) OR $10 (but you have to keep him for another year) OR $15 (but you have to keep him for 2 more years)

Year D = $10 (if you LT'd him for 1 year, then he has to go back) OR $15 (if you LT'd him for 2 years)

Year E = $15 (then he has to go back after the season)

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Our leagues keepers are due 24 hours before the draft. (1st Sunday of the baseball season, we draft late)

It is a 10 team NL only auction style draft. We can keep 15 out of 23 players and up to 5 minor leagues with 6 year contracts. (Bid value +5 in years 4,5,6). I usually publish a preliminary keeper list to everyone just so they know where I stand for offseason trades. Typically lists don't change alot just the last 2-3 guys depending on spring training battles or late trades.

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My league is entering its' 19th season, and over the years we have moved the keeper date closer and closer to draft day. Years ago everyone needed more prep time, but now everything is so easy with draft software and whatnot. We also had instituted the Steve Olin rule, should you keep someone and by draft day you no longer want him you can drop him without penalty.

I also agree with someone above who had posted the lower the keeper number the higher the competition. Over the years we have dropped the number from a maximum of 12 to 8. That has led to a much more wide open league, and greater trade market. When the cutoff for keepers is the top 96 players versus the top 144, those 48 players vary in value so much from team to team there is a lot of movement.

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