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Should drafting a K and DEF be required?


DrRazvi

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Do you think the RBs and WRs that'll be there in round 16 will be favorable to the ones there in rounds 10, 11, or whatever when there was "nobody left"? Of course not. They'll obviously be far more inferior options.

Honestly, a lot of times yeah. Round 10 and 11 is pushing it, but by the time you get to round 12 there's plenty of guys there in round 16 favorable to guys in round 12.

That's why I'm fine with people jumping up to round 12 for their kicker. My round 12 picks will typically be around in round 16 too, as they are guys who would go undrafted if I didn't draft them. Probably because I only draft lottery tickets and not backups, so I'd grab somebody like Daniel Thomas before I grab somebody like Cutler.

But really this is a call each person needs to make on their own and it changes from league to league. You have to decide who your sleepers are that you want, and whether you'll still get them if you jump up a round to take a kicker. If you get the same position player, but a better kicker, then I'm not really seeing what the problem is.

Although as stated earlier, I don't draft a kicker unless I'm forced to, so I personally don't jump up for them. But I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be.

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Do you think the RBs and WRs that'll be there in round 16 will be favorable to the ones there in rounds 10, 11, or whatever when there was "nobody left"? Of course not. They'll obviously be far more inferior options.

Honestly, a lot of times yeah. Round 10 and 11 is pushing it, but by the time you get to round 12 there's plenty of guys there in round 16 favorable to guys in round 12.

I'm sorry but I just can't fathom how one could rationalize this. Like I said, we all have our favorite deep sleepers who will be there for our last pick, but with every round that passes, the pool of talent becomes thinner and thinner. This seems like standard logic.

Kicker is the only position where there are plenty of very viable starters available every single week in any league that isn't extraordinary in size. The talent pool for kicker never really thins in any league with 16 or less teams.

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I'm sorry but I just can't fathom how one could rationalize this. Like I said, we all have our favorite deep sleepers who will be there for our last pick, but with every round that passes, the pool of talent becomes thinner and thinner. This seems like standard logic.

I'm never going to draft guys like Flacco, Cutler, Santonio Holmes, Kendall Wright, etc. even in round 16 so it doesn't matter if they are drafted. That's what I'm saying.

After you get to round 12 or so you start having guys taken that I wouldn't even consider ever drafting, so I don't care if they aren't there for my next pick. My "pool" doesn't effectively shrink when they get drafted.

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Here's an example, suppose you're sitting there with the first pick of round 14 - no kickers are off the board. You love one of the kickers for whatever reason, not my place to judge. So you have one bench spot to fill, 1 kicker spot, and 1 DST spot.

The next guy on your rankings is Billy Bob, some guy that nobody in your league has ever heard of and no way are any of them going to draft him - but also somebody you like more than any of the remaining skill players available. So you decide to draft the kicker you love, draft a defense in round 15, and then draft Billy Bob in round 16. Please tell me why in this specific case it is better to draft Billy Bob in round 14 and wait until round 15 for your kicker and miss out on the kicker you love while not improving your bench spot at all?

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Starting up year 5 of a hard-core friends league. Every year one or two guys do not draft a K or DEF, instead they load up on "prospect" skill players and see where they pan out preseason, then pick up & stream K and DEF when the reg season starts.

I don't have a problem with this strategy, but many of my leaguemates think that everybody should be required to draft a K and DEF to level the playing field.

Any thoughts?

Have your draft after pre season or at least in to week 4 of it and then there are no potential pre sleepers to worry about and it saves you from drafting a player that may get hurt in preseason

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a kicker who will give you 10 points every week is better than a kicker who will give you 3 pts one week and 15 pts the next.

Maybe. But that kicker who gives you 10 points EVERY week doesn't exist. Gostkowski scored double digit points in 62.5% of games last season. That's hardly every week. Is it worth potentially sabotaging your bench to take a guy who will be virtually equivalent to any number of kickers who can be had in the last round.

Let's take a look at the top ten standard scoring kickers last season and where they were drafted in relation to other kickers (via The Huddle). The ADPs used are the position where they were drafted in the kicker pool, not overall. Obviously.

1. Gostkowski Kicker ADP-2

2. Bryant ADP-11

3. Graham ADP-10

4. Tucker ADP-9

5. Walsh ADP-16

6. Akers ADP-1

7. Tynes ADP-20

8. Prater ADP-7

9. Hanson ADP-8

10. Barth ADP-30

Conversely, Janikowski, Crosby, Hartley, and Bailey had ADPs of 3,4,5,and 6, respectively and none of them finished in the top 10.

My point here is that, again, this position is very difficult for even the most prominent experts to project. There are so many variables that go into a kicker's fantasy performance that it doesn't make sense to allow your bench to suffer in order to take a kicker with an early pick when chances are, there will be minimal dichotomy between his fantasy impact and any random starting kicker. Even if it's only a one round drop, like I said, the talent pool for skill players becomes thinner and thinner with every round that passes.

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Suppose you're sitting there with the first pick of round 14 - no kickers are off the board. You love one of the kickers for whatever reason, not my place to judge. So you have one bench spot to fill, 1 kicker spot, and 1 DST spot.

The next guy on your rankings is Billy Bob, some guy that nobody in your league has ever heard of and no way are any of them going to draft him - but also somebody you like more than any of the remaining skill players available. So you decide to draft the kicker you love, draft a defense in round 15, and then draft Billy Bob in round 16. Please tell me why in this specific case it is better to draft Billy Bob in round 14 and wait until round 15 for your kicker and miss out on the kicker you love while not improving your bench spot at all?

Okay, so in that one case where there are 3 rounds remaining and you have your heart set on only one skill player remaining, and said skill player has a 0% chance of being drafted by ANY other owner in the league (how you would ever be able to know that is unbeknownst to me), then sure, go ahead and take that kicker that you love.

From my experience, though, there have been very few players who were on the radar of only exactly one owner in the league, and was never heard of by every single other owner, who ended up having a shred of value. So yes, in this extreme and essentially fictitious scenario, draft your kicker ahead of Billy Bob.

How are you going to feel, though, when Billy Bob surprisingly gets drafted with the next pick after you select your kicker, knowing that you could have had a dozen equivalent kickers 2 rounds later AND drafted Billy Bob with that previous selection?

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I really don't see a different between players going in round 11 or 12 vs those going in 13 or 14.

In exchange for drafting a bench player a round later than I otherwise would (which is really not a big difference), I get a potentially consistent kicker who will actually be starting and putting up points

There's no difference between guys who go in round 11 and guys who go in round 14? I'll be honest. I'm having a hell of a time following your logic here. I know we all have our late round sleepers or whatever but it's pretty much common sense that players going 3 rounds apart from each other are likely to represent a gap in production, even in the late rounds.

Anyway, as far as drafting a kicker "who will actually be starting an putting up points", like I implied, you'd have to be in a league with 26 teams or more to be in a situation where there isn't a starting kicker available every single week (assuming your league starts 1 kicker slot).

I'm repeating myself here, but in common leagues with 10, 12, or even 14 or 16 teams, EVERY SINGLE team has the opportunity to draft a kicker who is projected to out-perform the median. It's not like if you wait on kicker, you'll end up stuck with somebody useless. It's actually the exact opposite.

From last year- yes I know it's a mock but I couldn't really find draft results from last year: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/eric_mack/08/23/mack-mock-draft/1.html

Greg Little - round 11 - 90 points

Kendall Wright - 14 - 85 points

Mike Tolbert was taken in the last round and put up 85 points, where as Mendenhall was taken in the 10th and put up 30 points, R Hillman was taken in the 10 and put up 40 points. Pead was taken in the 11th and put up 5 points. Daniel Thomas was taken in the 14th and put up 70 points. Randall Cobb outperformed a number of people drafted ahead of him.

Drafting isn't an exact science, but especially in the later rounds it's a guessing game on who will step up.

Also I agree with you that in general, you can get a kicker at the end of the draft who will perform about the same as any other kicker. But I personally feel confident that Gostkowski will finish top 3 in kickers, and will be a solid and consistent player week to week, that's why I'm going after him. Obviously if I'm wrong then targeting him is all for naught.

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I realize total points don't tell the whole story (and this is based on last years points more than this years potential), but just for fun

Who would you rather have?

Drew Brees or Cam Newton

Arian Foster or Marshawn Lynch

AJ Green or Andre Johnson

Jason Witten or Jermaine Gresham

All of those guys finished with 20 points difference last year. That's the difference between Gronkowski (#2) and Connor Barth (#8) last year. Obviously kickers are much less predictable though, and you can get good ones off waivers. But why would you not want to aim for the best possible player at each position?

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Obviously kickers are much less predictable though, and you can get good ones off waivers. But why would you not want to aim for the best possible player at each position?

That's a very simple answer. To me, establishing backfield depth (even if may be with a couple of late-round lottery tickets) is more important to me than acquiring the highest projected kicker when there is ALWAYS going to be several free agents available that could quite feasibly end up out-performing said highest projected kicker.

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Yeah, but to be fair there are always going to be several free agents available that quite feasibly end up out-performing your 12th round pick.

I don't think it's accurate to say that Kickers are more/less predictable than players going in the 12th round. In fact they are probably more predictable. At least 50% of the top 10 kickers were drafted in the top 10. That's not too bad. Plus lots of people were high on Gostkowski last year and it more or less worked out for them.

Lets look at the skill positions drafted in the 11th and 12th rounds last year: Greg Little, LaGarette Blount, Jermaine Gresham, Randy Moss, Jared Cook, Daniel Thomas, Austin Collie, Kyle Rudolph, Robert Turbin, Santana Moss

Nothing that great. Rudolph was okayish, but so were guys like Pitta who were off waivers. If you go a little later in ADP you get Alfred Morris, but even he wasn't drafted in every league and certainly was drafted in basically no leagues last June, but he's the only guy from 10th round or later that was better than anything off waivers. So if you weren't going to draft him, you might as well have jumped up for a kicker.

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I keep repeating myself but I will never take a kicker in round 12 because there will ALWAYS be a solid option available on the wire. You simply cannot say that about any other position. Sure, there are always decent QBs and TEs on the wire in smaller leagues, but they're nowhere near comparable to the top guys at that position.

Obviously there are plenty of skill players taken in the late rounds that don't work out but you have to fill your bench and that involves taking some fliers. I'd rather choose my fliers from the talent pool that is there in the 12th round than pick from the scraps that will be there in the 16th, when there are 40-50 less players to choose from.

And yes, of course there will be a handful of undrafted players who go on to out-perform the guys who are going around round 12 but nobody knows who these guys are on draft day. If we did, they wouldn't be going undrafted. All we can do on draft day is select the players whom we feel will work out best for whatever our needs and strategy dictate.

Useful skill players are often scarce on the wire during the season, but the opposite is true for kickers. There is always one there that is comparable to your opponent's kicker. That depth at the position and the comfort of knowing that you can always pick up a suitable free agent is the reason why people often don't even draft one if they aren't required to.

Green, you've implied in multiple threads that you select mostly unknown players for your bench. That's fine, it's your team, but that method is not the norm. Most owners choose from among the best players available and that pool changes DRASTICALLY in a 3 or 4 round span.

Like I mentioned earlier, 4 of the top 6 kickers selected last season finished outside the top ten. With the fluidity at the position from year to year and week to week, I could personally never justify taking a kicker until all of my skill positions are filled. Since kicker ADP and production is often polar, I'm making it my priority to establish depth at the positions that aren't so readily available at any point during the season.

I'm actually shocked at the resistance to this philosophy since in almost every league I play in with a snake draft, nobody touches kickers until the very last round. Sometimes a guy will reach for a DST a few rounds early but I'm legitimately taken back by the pro-kicker sentiment in this thread.

Like I said earlier, the team you're drafting is YOUR TEAM. Hell, if you want to take a kicker #1 overall, that's your choice. But personally, I really can't think of any scenario where I could rationalize selecting a kicker before the last round.

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Gostkowski scored 157 points last year (and 145 the year before). He scored more points than guys like BJE, LeShoure, Sproles, DeAngelo Williams, Woodhead, Ballard, Mike Williams, Steve Smith, Lance Moore, Stevie Johnson, Torrey Smith, Austin, Maclin, Lloyd, etc. He scored more points than any TE last year. And a lot of those guys are projected to go way ahead of Gostkowski.

This logic is really flawed. If every owner in a given draft were applying this rationale, about 15 QBs would be going in the first two rounds because they score more points than all of the other players.

A sound draft strategy doesn't involve selecting the players who are simply going to score the most overall points. We have to apply principles of VBD (Value-Based Drafting) or we'll end up doing things like selecting our kicker before potentially useful skill players.

Let's keep in mind that, even in a 16 team league, there will be anywhere from 10 to 16 starting kickers (depending on byes) on the wire in any given week. How many starting RBs are usually sitting around on the wire after waivers are processed? None. Ever. Probably not even in like an 8 team league.

If you aren't drafting all your skill guys before your kicker and streaming the position week to week, you might not be fully maximizing your roster's potential.

If you aren't drafting all your skill guys before your kicker and streaming the position week to week, you might not be fully maximizing your roster's potential.

that being said i don't think it's a bad idea to take a kicker you think will be top 5 in the 13-15 round. how often do players at other positions in those rounds pan out anyway?
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i don't think it's a bad idea to take a kicker you think will be top 5 in the 13-15 round. how often do players at other positions in those rounds pan out anyway?

But the point I keep trying to make in this thread is that you HAVE TO fill your roster. You have no choice but to select some of those guys that likely won't pan out but would you rather choose from the talent pool that is there in round 13 for your late round fliers or the players who will be there in round 16, after dozens more guys have been taken off the board?

There will always be plenty of entirely startable kickers available in the last round and they will be available every single week in the free agent pool. That can't be said for any other position so I have no choice but to make kicker my absolute last priority.

The argument keeps being made that the skill players selected in rounds 11-13 usually don't pan out. And I agree. But the guys you're taking there have a better chance of performing than the ones you'd be going after in round 16 (someone in this thread will probably try to argue that that's not necessarily true but it's simple logic....there's more to choose from and the quality of player at the top of the board will have substantially more upside). The same cannot be said for kickers. The last kicker taken in the draft essentially has as much of a chance to perform as the 2nd or 3rd kicker taken.

Remember, like I've mentioned a couple times, in a 16 team league, the last team to choose a kicker still gets a guy who is ranked higher than the median NFL starter. In a 10 team league, the top third of kickers doesn't even get drafted. It's not like you get a "bad" kicker if you let everyone else select theirs first. In this way, it's such an entirely unique position in fantasy.

Look at the past ADPs in relation to scoring. 4 of the first 6 kickers selected last season (Crosby, Bailey, Hartley, Janikowski) finished outside the top 11 in scoring (I was saying top 10 earlier, because the top 10 is what I listed but of the 4 kickers in question, Crosby was highest scoring at #12), while the 2 kickers with the 20th and 30th highest ADPs at the position (Tynes, Barth) both finished top ten in scoring. So, to counter the argument against me, I could mention how the kickers who people are reaching for usually end up not being worth the early pick.

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Why in the world would you draft a kicker? Go back and look at round 12-16 in your drafts. Someone got Alfred Morris in those rounds. You think the guy that took Mason Crosby the pick before Alfred Morris is happy with that pick? To further prove value- when is the last time in a league that waiver priority or waiver bucks(more than 1-2) has been used on a kicker? If they are not waiver priority worthy, why would you draft one?

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Why in the world would you draft a kicker? Go back and look at round 12-16 in your drafts. Someone got Alfred Morris in those rounds. You think the guy that took Mason Crosby the pick before Alfred Morris is happy with that pick? To further prove value- when is the last time in a league that waiver priority or waiver bucks(more than 1-2) has been used on a kicker? If they are not waiver priority worthy, why would you draft one?

Do you think the people who drafted Mendenhall before Morris were happy with that pick? Do you think the people that drafted DMC or Murray or Bush before Morris were happy about that? Fantasy football is unpredictable. For every successful late round pick like Morris (who wasn't even drafted in some leagues), there are way more failures who will never see your starting lineup or even stay on your team - Donald Brown, Kevin Smith, Beanie Wells, DeAngelo Williams, Ingram, Benson, Ryan Williams, Isaac Redman, Gerhart, Reshad Jennings, Blount, Evan Royster, James Starks, Felix Jones, Ronnie Hillman, Robert Turbin, Tim Hightower, Isiah Pead, Roy Helu, Mikel LeShoure.

The chances of hitting on a late round pick are extremely low. If one draft pick like Morris works out and all those above guys fail, the chances of hitting on a late round flier are about 5% (there might be 1 or 2 other late round RBs that worked out, but I also left out a number of players who didn't do anything because they might have been taken as handcuffs).

But the point I keep trying to make in this thread is that you HAVE TO fill your roster. You have no choice but to select some of those guys that likely won't pan out but would you rather choose from the talent pool that is there in round 13 for your late round fliers or the players who will be there in round 16, after dozens more guys have been taken off the board?

There will always be plenty of entirely startable kickers available in the last round and they will be available every single week in the free agent pool. That can't be said for any other position so I have no choice but to make kicker my absolute last priority.

The argument keeps being made that the skill players selected in rounds 11-13 usually don't pan out. And I agree. But the guys you're taking there have a better chance of performing than the ones you'd be going after in round 16 (someone in this thread will probably try to argue that that's not necessarily true but it's simple logic....there's more to choose from and the quality of player at the top of the board will have substantially more upside). The same cannot be said for kickers. The last kicker taken in the draft essentially has as much of a chance to perform as the 2nd or 3rd kicker taken.

OK this may be a stretch for you to see my point of view - but say hypothetically you feel confident in 1 specific kicker that he will finish top #3 (however you don't know who the other top players are because kickers change from year to year - but even so you still believe that your guy will be consistent and finish at the top). You feel that kicker is a sure thing (obviously there's no such thing in FF, but you feel that way). Would you rather take a question mark on a backup spot, and then get another question mark/inconsistent player at kicker - opposed to getting someone you feel is a solid pick at kicker, and draft some other question mark bench player a round later?

I agree there are other startable kickers that will likely be available off of waivers. But even then, you'll be lucky to get someone who will kick consistently good for an entire season and you're going to go through a couple of guys, some of which won't work out. Zuerlein looked great for a few weeks and then fell off.

Also I thought I already dispelled your last point. In every draft there are multiple players taken in later rounds who equal or out perform people drafted ahead of them. There are numerous mid-late-round picks that end up being completely useless. In rounds 11+ where we're discussing, pretty much all of the people you're looking at are unproven, 2nd/3rd string players who are only getting drafted based on potential alone. The only difference between an unproven/sleeper pick in round 11 vs one in round 14 is the opinion people have of him, and holds no relation to how they are actually going to perform in the upcoming season.

You act like when you draft a kicker, you don't pick again until 4 rounds later. We're talking about 1 round here. Do you really think there is a difference between some bench/sleeper taken in round 12 vs one taken in round 13?

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Yeah but what about your bye week? Are you really going to roster another kicker that week? Not start a kicker? Or drop him and hope you get him in FA?

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Hm good point. I would probably just not start a kicker that week. Kickers are pretty useless anyways with their 5 points or so lol which makes the whole argument kind of pointless. (although some games do end up being decided by a point or so)

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Hm good point. I would probably just not start a kicker that week. Kickers are pretty useless anyways with their 5 points or so lol which makes the whole argument kind of pointless. (although some games do end up being decided by a point or so)

Wait... 5 points in a single week is useless, but your entire argument is based on the foundation that a top 3 kicker is worth drafting, because he's likely to out score 4-10 by what, 20 points on the entire season?

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Another "don't draft one unless you have to" player checking in.

I also would be happy not starting a K or D/ST during a bye week if it meant dropping a valuable bench player.

Two years ago, someone in one of my leagues was forced to drop a prospect in Week 5 because everyone bitched at him about it not being "fair", and he dropped Victor Cruz (which was honestly the right choice at the time based on his roster because Cruz had had a blank Week 1, a bad Week 2, a great Week 3 (3/110/2) and an okay Week 4 (6/98/0), but nobody was sure if Weeks 3 and 4 were just a small sample size ala Ogletree last year or the real deal.)

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Why in the world would you draft a kicker? Go back and look at round 12-16 in your drafts. Someone got Alfred Morris in those rounds.

See that's the thing, Alfred Morris was one of the guys that was not drafted in the 10th-14th rounds in 10 team leagues last year that I liked better than anybody going in the 10th-14th rounds.

I played in 13 different 10 team leagues last year, and in 7 of them I drafted Alfred Morris and in the other 6 he went undrafted. So in fact in a single league I did actually jump up to get a kicker just because I wanted Janikowski in one of my 13 leagues (I don't like having the same kicker in every league), so I took Janikowski in the 13th, Royster in the 14th, Morris in the 15th, and a DST in the 16th. Granted Janikowski wasn't all that great, but I didn't sacrifice anything in terms of my skill positions. That's what I'm saying, if you can jump up to get whatever kicker you want for whatever reason, and you end up drafting the exact same sleeper in round 15 and 16 as you would in 13 and 14 - I just really fail to see how it could possibly be even controversial.

Granted this changes from team to team and week to week, but after doing 50+ mock drafts and 5+ real drafts and not having Alfred Morris drafted in a single one of them other than by you - you pretty much know he's not getting drafted in your real drafts either.

This year I like Daniel Thomas, McGahee/Moreno, and Goodson better than anybody going in the 11th-14th rounds in 10 team drafts. Other than maybe McGahee, these guys aren't going to be drafted in hardly any of my 10 team leagues. That's fine, and I don't plan on jumping for a kicker (although I may take Blair Walsh a round or two early in a single league), but I could jump a round for my kicker without changing my bench spots at all - so it really shouldn't be an issue.

Now if the guy you like is somebody who will be drafted then you obviously should draft him over jumping for a kicker - but that's what I said, it depends from person to person and team to team. I was just taking issue with the idea that the guys in the 12th round are clearly better than the guys available in the 16th round - to which I say nonsense. I almost always draft people who would otherwise be undrafted rather than draft the people with ADPs in the 12th round - and I've been very happy with my outcomes over the past years.

After the 10th round, stop paying attention to ADP and just pick your guys out and get them. An ADP of 11th round vs ADP of 13th round means almost nothing.

I also would be happy not starting a K or D/ST during a bye week if it meant dropping a valuable bench player.

Do not do this. I did this twice in one of my league last year and lost both weeks by less than 3 points each time. Plus I wasn't even able to pull off a 2-for-1 trade the next weeks either. I ended up missing the playoffs by 1 game in this league, and I would have won the championship had I made it in the playoffs. I have done it before too, but the payoff has never really been that big. Needless to say I will never do it again.

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I was just taking issue with the idea that the guys in the 12th round are clearly better than the guys available in the 16th round - to which I say nonsense. I almost always draft people who would otherwise be undrafted rather than draft the people with ADPs in the 12th round - and I've been very happy with my outcomes over the past years.

But it's not really nonsense. Obviously we don't know for certain how ANY player will perform during a coming season, regardless of what round they're taken in. Clearly, your early picks are far safer than your last few but it's not like there's some invisible barrier following round 10 that makes the rankings and ADPs of the remaining players irrelevant.

Between the 12th and 16th round (the range you're referencing), the next best 40-50 players could be eliminated from the draft pool. There's no guarantee that these guys will be better than those who have yet to be drafted but they were projected higher for a reason: because experts and owners liked their value more this season, based on any number of criteria, than the remaining skill players.

These projections are often wrong, yes, but they are educated guesses that sometimes work. The pro-kicker contingent keeps mentioning guys who don't work out but it's not as if no productive player were ever drafted in the 12th round. If you do your homework, you have a much better chance of landing a useful pick in the 12th than you do if you're choosing from the scraps that are there 4 rounds later. This seems like a logical conclusion to me.

Green, I know that you want unknown players on your bench, so I guess it really doesn't matter. Given your philosophy, I suppose you can draft a kicker whenever you want. But as I said before, that strategy is far from the norm.

I'm repeating myself yet again in this thread but the same counter-arguments keep being made (are you guys reading my posts?), in the 12th round there is a much larger pool and the players at the top of the board are projected to perform better. Projections are not always accurate of course, but they are there for a reason. Projections are not only applicable to the top 100 players in the league. The late round guys are more difficult to predict but it's not an impossibility if you put time and detail into your analysis.

From time to time, there will be an Alfred Morris, who is absolutely the guy you want and you know with absolute certainty that nobody else in your league will draft (this seems very difficult to know for certain). In this case, if you want to jump a round for your kicker, then that's fine. But a lot of owners want the "best available" player when they're filling their bench and the gap between the 12th and 16th represents a major drop in projected quality, while the gap in quality between any 2 starting kickers is negligible and extremely difficult to predict due to the variety of circumstances playing into a kicker's production.

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Green, I know that you want unknown players on your bench, so I guess it really doesn't matter. Given your philosophy, I suppose you can draft a kicker whenever you want. But as I said before, that strategy is far from the norm.

This is all I'm saying. That it's not so easy to say it's always wrong, and in certain, perhaps uncommon, circumstances it's perfectly okay.

That and despite there being a larger pool a round earlier, if it's not a pool of players you want it doesn't really matter. If you want some of those players (which you obviously do) then of course you draft them, but if you're like me and have no interest in them then it really does not matter at all if and when they get drafted. I'm just saying don't be a slave to predefined rankings, make your own and if yours don't match up with the standard ones - then take advantage.

But I do agree that often I don't draft a kicker if I don't have to. Usually only in leagues where draft time is so close to the start of the season that waivers don't clear before the season start - which is a few leagues each year. If you're drafting now I think it's much better to pick up an extra backup-RB who may stumble into the starting job by week 1.

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