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Shohei Ohtani - Angels


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On 9/16/2017 at 11:37 AM, treat88 said:

That would be brutal to have acquired Otani in multiple dynasty leagues only to see him somehow divided into two players, one a SP and the other a hitter.

 

More ridiculous still if owners only get to own half a player simply because a few simple subroutines can't be edited. 

 

I think that would be the stupidest thing ever, agreed.

 

And furthermore, dividing the player actually adds more problems than it fixes.  You should rightly divide other pitchers, too right?  In deeper leagues, if you had to stream a hitter for a day, is Madison Bumgarner at Coors Field really that much of a stretch to be useful?  Probably not.  And if you allow Otani's batting stats to count, why not allow MadBum?  I owned him for four years and many times was irked that my only homer of the day came from my pitcher

 

I will say though:  I bet changing the code would be an insane nightmare.  Programming is so complex, especially in big things like this.

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On 9/16/2017 at 12:55 PM, Dark One said:

 

I wouldn't look at it as half a player though and that's where we fundamentally disagree. It's not like he wouldn't have a chance to still impact your team the way top aces do right now if you just get him as a pitcher. If he gets SP/Util/OF eligibility while only needing a single roster spot it will fundamentally change leagues and give the acquiring manager a huge advantage over everyone else (particularly in head to head formats).

 

As it pertains to roster slots, you look at getting him as either an SP or a DH/OF as getting half a player, I look at getting him as an SP/Util/OF as getting two players, so we're just coming at the issue from opposite sides, which again, is totally fine.

 

Agreed.  We are just looking at it from different angles.

 

That said, I guess my more fundamental issue is if Otani the pitcher and Otani the hitter end up on different teams.  There is one Shoehei Otani the player, only one team should get to "own" that players production per league.

 

Id have far less problem burning two slots on him than having him on two altogether separate teams.   At the end of it tho, IMO....unique player means unique value.

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4 hours ago, treat88 said:

Id have far less problem burning two slots on him than having him on two altogether separate teams.   At the end of it tho, IMO....unique player means unique value.

 

While I generally agree here, I just feel that the "unique value" is such a tremendous advantage it would be hard to compete with a manager that can move him from pitching to offense on a daily basis without needing an extra roster slot. It's why I couldn't imagine drafting him anywhere other than first overall in that scenario (assuming of course he's allowed to play the field/DH when he's not on the mound, which of course remains to be seen).

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2 hours ago, Dark One said:

 

While I generally agree here, I just feel that the "unique value" is such a tremendous advantage it would be hard to compete with a manager that can move him from pitching to offense on a daily basis without needing an extra roster slot. It's why I couldn't imagine drafting him anywhere other than first overall in that scenario (assuming of course he's allowed to play the field/DH when he's not on the mound, which of course remains to be seen).

 

I think that's just the nature of the player.  If he really is a very good player, and can actually get 5 WAR as both hitter and pitcher, then, yeah, he's the best player in the league.  Barry Bonds gave players a ridiculous advantage back in the day because he was SO dominate as well.  I think the take-aways are this though

 

1) Otani is *probably* not going to come over and just be an All-Star hitter and All-Star pitcher. 

2) If he is though, he is rightfully the most valuable player in a fantasy league because he'd be the most valuable player in baseball

3) Outliers are never a problem in auuuuuuction leagues :)

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6 hours ago, jackmurphy said:

Simple, start him out as a pitcher. Once he makes appearances at any other position (DH), give him that position eligibility. In ESPN it should be after 10 appearances to get DH next season, 20 to retain it the following year. 

 

Well it should be something like that, sure.  But I imagine that to be a monumental programming task. We shall see!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Slugging ace pitcher Shohei Otani should be fit to pitch and hit without any restrictions in about three months, the Nippon Ham Fighters said Wednesday.

The Pacific League club reported that the 23-year-old had successful surgery on his right ankle in a Tokyo hospital and all signs indicate he will be fit to start camp in February.

Otani is expected to move to the majors via the posting system following the end of Nippon Professional Baseball's season. The PL's MVP in 2016, when he was voted the circuit's top pitcher and its top designated hitter, Otani appeared in just 65 games this past season.

He is expected to spend two to three weeks of rehabilitation work in a hospital. After his discharge, he will shift his rehab to the Fighters' minor league facility in Kamagaya, Chiba Prefecture, just outside Tokyo.

Otani rolled his right ankle while running the bases in last October's Japan Series. He aggravated the injury while running the bases while playing for Japan in November internationals. At that time, a bone spur was detected and he reportedly declined surgery in order to be ready to play in March's World Baseball Classic.

Because of the injury, Otani was unable to pitch over the offseason and because his fitness was still in doubt in February, Otani was dropped from the WBC roster.

When the season began, he was playing regularly but prohibited by Fighters manager Hideki Kuriyama from running flat out or landing on a base with his right ankle.

On April 8, Otani injured a muscle in his left thigh while trying to beat out an infield single. That injury kept him out of the Fighters lineup for nearly three months.

At season's end he had pitched in just five games, although he finished his season with a complete game shutout. He batted .332 with eight home runs and 31 RBIs in 231 plate appearances and failed to steal a base for the first time in his five-year pro career.

18 hours ago | KYODO NEWS

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  • 5 weeks later...
19 hours ago, motown magic said:

Does anybody know if he has a preference on where he wants to play? A favorite team ?

Where as in what position to play?  He said he is open to either pitching or hitting or both.  Said he knew it was about the team's need and not his.  Whether that was him or his PR agent it all sounded nice and mature.  No team favorites mentioned of course because that would put his side in a weaker position during the negotiations.

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5 minutes ago, bigmarc27 said:

 

 It’s a little late for that timeline. We’re in the middle of November.

It's UP TO 30 days of negotiations. I don't think it'll drag out that long since it's not about the money. As is customary with any type of negotiation process, negotiations end when an agreement is made OR time expires. My bad, I should've been clearer.

But here's a link so you can read it yourself instead of fact-checking my date calculations.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Posting_System

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7 hours ago, motown magic said:

I should have been more clear with my question. I meant was he a fan of a certain team growing up?

i think @The Big Bat Theory hit the nail on the head with his answer... it would not be in Otani's best interest to share this information until after negotiations. i've not seen anything that mentioned a preferred team, so i'm assuming he's not said, and will not say, until after he signs.

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14 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

Seems like Dodgers or Yankees to me. Why would he sign anywhere else. The monetary difference in the bonuses from the least and most teams are able to give him is pretty small.

 

I guess I see it as the opposite. With the money being capped to such a degree, the advantages the Yankees and Dodgers employ aren’t as relevant here and it’ll come down to other factors. I could see Seattle, I could see the Rangers, I could see any National League team that promises him 3 days a week in the OF when he’s not pitching.  His contract is going to carry so much surplus value for the team that signs him that I’m sure they’ll concede to pretty much any demand. 

 

That’s not to say those two aren't great options, I just don’t think they’re the only options like I would if he came over and could sign an uncapped contract. 

Edited by bigmarc27
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4 hours ago, bigmarc27 said:

 

I guess I see it as the opposite. With the money being capped to such a degree, the advantages the Yankees and Dodgers employ aren’t as relevant here and it’ll come down to other factors. I could see Seattle, I could see the Rangers, I could see any National League team that promises him 3 days a week in the OF when he’s not pitching.  His contract is going to carry so much surplus value for the team that signs him that I’m sure they’ll concede to pretty much any demand. 

 

That’s not to say those two aren't great options, I just don’t think they’re the only options like I would if he came over and could sign an uncapped contract. 

 

I thought about Seattle for a while, but Nelson Cruz only played 5 games in the OF last season. I dont think they want to risk Ohtani much in the OF. 

 

Dodgers and Yankees seem like the best fit because they are big markets on the coast close to a championship, both of which have had prominent Japanese pitchers over the years. In theory, the Royals seem like a good landing spot because its a great home park and they would give him plenty of AB if needed, but I don't see anyone ever choosing KC in a free agent thing.

 

With all the money being the same, I think he chooses the place that has the most to offer outside of money i.e. city life and championship possibility. The Dodgers especially seem like a good spot because they just lost in game 7. I think it's an appealing position to be the guy who pushes them over. 

 

Rangers have a bad home park, aren't close to win a championship, and I don't see much there besides the little bit more money he can get along with Yu Darvish played there.  I'd certainly put them as a top 5-6 landing spot, but my 1-2 is tier of it's own.

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12 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

I thought about Seattle for a while, but Nelson Cruz only played 5 games in the OF last season. I dont think they want to risk Ohtani much in the OF. 

 

Dodgers and Yankees seem like the best fit because they are big markets on the coast close to a championship, both of which have had prominent Japanese pitchers over the years. In theory, the Royals seem like a good landing spot because its a great home park and they would give him plenty of AB if needed, but I don't see anyone ever choosing KC in a free agent thing.

 

With all the money being the same, I think he chooses the place that has the most to offer outside of money i.e. city life and championship possibility. The Dodgers especially seem like a good spot because they just lost in game 7. I think it's an appealing position to be the guy who pushes them over. 

 

Rangers have a bad home park, aren't close to win a championship, and I don't see much there besides the little bit more money he can get along with Yu Darvish played there.  I'd certainly put them as a top 5-6 landing spot, but my 1-2 is tier of it's own.

 

All the money isnt the same though...I think hes willing to forgo the huge payday but I dont think hes gonna be signing with one of the teams thats 300k or less, which takes a huge number of teams out of the running. Seattle just traded for more slot money today, which tells me they are going to be going after him hard and Id imagine Ichiro would help them in that endeavor as well. 

 

There are 18 teams which are capped at 300k or less, I think this factor is going to significantly shorten the market. Monetary difference between the most and least is 3.5 million, vs 10k. Theres a large range at play there, I think hell still be looking for a decent bonus from whoever he signs with.

 

If I had to pick today I think Id rank id be between NYY and SEA. The Yankees offer the city, the prestige, all the bells and whistles and need the SP help that is Otanis biggest calling card. Seattle has a good history with Japanese imports and proved a good market for Ichiro which I think helps as well. I just cant see him completely giving away his signing for no real bonus money up front. 

 

Id initially scoffed at the idea as well in some other talks, but signing with an NL team would make a ton of sense. He gets at bats whenever he pitches and could still be used in a pinch hitting role. Much as he wants to maintain the hitting I dont think theres any AL team that would be willing to use him at DH consistently and he was rarely used as an actual OF in Japan, much more as a DH.  The Phillies have the most $ to offer of any of the NL teams, outside of Pittsburgh and Miam where I cant see him at all, and a good young core along with a decent sized market. It would be very interesting to see him go to a team like that, especially as with his age win now isnt exactly a must.

 

Either way Im super excited to see his talents in MLB next year, from all accounts hes a player that comes along so rarely that everyone should be offering the 20 million posting fee and at least giving it a run. The worst he can say is no!

 

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11 hours ago, dzemens said:

 

All the money isnt the same though...I think hes willing to forgo the huge payday but I dont think hes gonna be signing with one of the teams thats 300k or less, which takes a huge number of teams out of the running. Seattle just traded for more slot money today, which tells me they are going to be going after him hard and Id imagine Ichiro would help them in that endeavor as well. 

 

 

 

The difference between 300k and 3.5 million isn't a lot when you consider he's setting himself up for a contract in 2 years that could easily fluctuate by the tens of millions depending on where he signs. I have to think even if he's the same pitcher a 3.7 ERA from an NL Team after 2 years probably gets him paid more than a 4.3 with the Yankees. 

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  • tonycpsu changed the title to Shohei Ohtani - SP/OF Japan (was: Otani)

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