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Is there a starter in the league that you watch and it inspires you to dust off your glove and make you believe that if his loser is in the big leagues that you could be as well?  For me that guy is Sean O'Sullivan.  How in the world is this guy still taking a ball in the big leagues?  Career 5.03 era some of the most laughable K rates I've ever seen.  Just a complete scrub.  Now that I've bashed him he'll huck a gem.  But seriously, Suckholz-O'Sullivan weekend warriors for Red Sox?  Is that how bad it has gotten?

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1 hour ago, Cmilne23 said:

Is there a starter in the league that you watch and it inspires you to dust off your glove and make you believe that if his loser is in the big leagues that you could be as well?  For me that guy is Sean O'Sullivan.  How in the world is this guy still taking a ball in the big leagues?  Career 5.03 era some of the most laughable K rates I've ever seen.  Just a complete scrub.  Now that I've bashed him he'll huck a gem.  But seriously, Suckholz-O'Sullivan weekend warriors for Red Sox?  Is that how bad it has gotten?

Lol, Pelfrey inspires similar dreams of grandeur. 

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5 hours ago, Cmilne23 said:

Is there a starter in the league that you watch and it inspires you to dust off your glove and make you believe that if his loser is in the big leagues that you could be as well?  For me that guy is Sean O'Sullivan.  How in the world is this guy still taking a ball in the big leagues?  Career 5.03 era some of the most laughable K rates I've ever seen.  Just a complete scrub.  Now that I've bashed him he'll huck a gem.  But seriously, Suckholz-O'Sullivan weekend warriors for Red Sox?  Is that how bad it has gotten?

 

 

You had to say this with me throwing Shoemaker today?!

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On 6/27/2016 at 8:48 PM, Cmilne23 said:

The good news is the farm system is loaded.

 

The bad news is not many teams are looking to trade SP.  They have to get a starter though.  Suckholz and Eduardo are huge liabilities.  Joe Kelly sucks would be an insult to sucking.  They need another SP in the worse way though.

Actually their farm system isn't that deep in that Moncada and Beinententitentiendi (okay yeah just saying I will never be able to spell this name right) are the only top trade pieces that are nearing ready with Moncada at least a year away.  Devers a little behind that.  Espinoza still several years away.  No one (fans, media and front office) wants them to trade the first two of these guys especially since there is only pretty inferior pitchers on the market as a whole and some of them are just rentals too.  To trade a possible 5 tool stud for a 36 year old Rich Hill say makes no sense in that Boston has said they are committed to a long term dynasty of core younger players to play for years to come.  Given what Bogaerts, Betts and Bradley have done when they all were suppose to be traded at one time or another it would be hard to send off the next two pieces in this "dynasty" for rentals and one  to two year guys.

Personally I'd rather see them hold these two guys (and Espinoza) even if it costs them this year cause the pitching needs are too large to be fixed by just bringing in one B grade pitcher. 

Swihart is injured right now or he would be shopped though I like the guy and would hate to see him go.  Well he could be shopped right now too but his value is less when he is on the DL I should say.  Devers might be the odd prospect out if they have to trade a "good one" to get someone decent.

Vets?  Buchholz they would give away for free but no team wants to go near him obviously.  Hanigan could go as a piece since Sandy Leon looked really good defensively last year and this year too with the added perk that he is hitting over .500 currently (last year under .200 so it won't last).  Before his injury and while he got real hot Chris Young might have been in the mix.  But now well his injury could linger for some time and his brief stint of hitting pretty decently against righties as well seems to be over as a result.

 

On 6/27/2016 at 11:46 PM, Code of Hammurabi said:

What ever happened to the legend that was Henry Owens?

His change-up is upper tier and his curve is approaching excellent when he can control it but he can't a good half of the time.  His fastball (third pitch) he can't spot at all.  Exactly where he was last year at this time.  He is spinning his wheels at this point.  And with a body too tall and lanky to fit his control pitching style he may spin around for a long long time in AAA.

Brian Johnson was also suppose to be up this year but he was DL'ed with "anxiety disorder" earlier in the season.

Now E-Rod is messed up mechanically and in his head and needs fixing.  Still has good stuff but needs the third pitch as well and to stay in AAA for awhile.  But they say they will bring him up after the break probably.  (Team desperation does bad things to young pitchers).  Joe Kelly is suppose to be sent back up to Boston too after the break for his next razor's edge walk between a good outing followed by a horrible one or two followed by a trip back to Pawtucket wash, rinse and repeat.

All the AL East teams are messed up pitching wise though.  Baltimore has been amazing in over performance from their staff so far but can they keep it up?  Toronto looked better on paper and Stroman was good last two starts but then bang, Estrada goes down.  Ray's vaulted pitching hasn't been this year.  And the Yankees staff is a mess with even Sabathia's big comeback fallen flat of late and Pineda out of synch all year.

In fact all of the American league is hard pressed pitching-wise.  Houston's staff under performing, Rangers' staff all DL-ing together, ChiSox staff of 2 (good for playoffs but they have to get there), Fulmer and a fading Verlander, King Felix injured and off his feed, KC's magic and mirrors getting a little shakey.  AL playoffs could be a fun thing to watch with some actual hitting going on instead of the post-season snooze-fest of 1-0 games.  Well except for Cleveland.  Given there are no big magic bullets to be traded for in pitching Cleveland could go all the way to the Series if they can get a bat or two.  Cleveland, city of champions.  Way to end a post in the Boston thread.

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Devers may be the odd one out, but I highly doubt they move him too.  Kid's more than handled his own in high A at 18, and has really started mashing as of late.  I have a really hard time believing that any of the Big 4 (I like to have all 4 in the same, even if Espinoza and Devers are farther away) will be moved for some of the middling arms that will be dangled out there at the deadline.  You may see other prospects who have emerged a bit in the past year (Josh Ockimey, etc) being tossed around in trade talks, but not enough to net anything substantial.  Even though Swihart is injured, I can see him being tossed into a deal aw well.

 

As fun as this team is to watch, there are too many holes in that pitching staff to be fixed in the short term with what is out there, and I'd prefer to hold on to the big 4 prospects they have.

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I agree I think of them as the Big Four as well.  And I'd like Devers to stay.  But Dombronski is chomping at the bit so I'm not convinced the Four won't be reduced to a Three soon.  Personally if I had to see one go it would be Devers only because I like the other three so much.  But yeah I really want to keep Devers as well even if it means sitting back and watching Cleveland or Texas or whoever play the Cubs or Giants or Nats in the Series this year.

I do think it is funny though how the announcers always talk trades on every broadcast and then they always cut away to a shot of Dombronski sitting up high looking down on his minions like a vulture ready to swoop off his perch at any minute and carry one of the players away to parts unknown.

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I really hope this team doesn't make a big move. I am so tired of them buying high over and over again. They never learn. They are like the anti-Belichick. If Belichick were the GM of the Red Sox ( work with me) do you think he would have signed Price to the biggest pitching contract in baseball history ? Do you think he trades 2-3 top 100 prospects for a closer?  Branch Rickey's old adage was when a player is getting older, it's better to get rid of them a year too early than a year too late. Here in Boston we don't do either. We sign them to multi-year deals. The only reason why they're still in this is because they held tight to Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley when they were younger and didn't sell those guys for someone at their peak value and now you get the feeling that's exactly what they want to do with the next wave. They shouldn't have fired Cherrington. They should have just let him run the draft and minor league system and then in the off-season locked him and Luccino in the cellar without their phones. They'd be in a far better place than they are now. Rant over.

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1 hour ago, fletch44 said:

I really hope this team doesn't make a big move. I am so tired of them buying high over and over again. They never learn. They are like the anti-Belichick. If Belichick were the GM of the Red Sox ( work with me) do you think he would have signed Price to the biggest pitching contract in baseball history ? Do you think he trades 2-3 top 100 prospects for a closer?  Branch Rickey's old adage was when a player is getting older, it's better to get rid of them a year too early than a year too late. Here in Boston we don't do either. We sign them to multi-year deals. The only reason why they're still in this is because they held tight to Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley when they were younger and didn't sell those guys for someone at their peak value and now you get the feeling that's exactly what they want to do with the next wave. They shouldn't have fired Cherrington. They should have just let him run the draft and minor league system and then in the off-season locked him and Luccino in the cellar without their phones. They'd be in a far better place than they are now. Rant over.

LOL, good one.  At least Luccino is done ... errr, retired.

But to be fair they did offer Cherrington a job.  Forget it's title.  Maybe assistant GM of something or other, something fancy sounding to sooth the ego I guess.  But I think he thought that would be a bit awkward for both him and Dombronski to deal with.  And obviously a demotion. 

But I do wish they would quietly hire him back off season to be in charge of the draft/minor leagues.  After a year away his return would be far less awkward.  Because that was his forte.  He was over his head as a GM but excelled at getting all these young players and prospects to start with.  Love to see him return in that capacity because he didn't find another job as GM after all.  Didn't he go off to teach some baseball seminars or something in the end?

And yeah there is a whole feeling with us fans in general that we don't want the prospects traded away.  Not many places where fans are screaming for them not to trade away A-Ball level players for a "name".  But it is certainly true here.

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I think Cherington was offered the GM job before Hazan got it, but knew it would pretty much be ceremonious, so he declined. He is now at Columbia teaching sports management or something. I, too, thought they were rash in getting rid of him, but that seems to be how the Sox roll. Don't blame the pitching staff led by Bucholz, but instead blame the GM. Honestly, Dombrowski has done nothing to improve this staff, which continues to be our weakness. One could argue Price was a Dombrowski move, but I think Cherington could have just as easily signed Price with the same contract. 

 

I think fletch44 was right on with the Sox going after guys with recent success instead of looking at their career trajectory (looking at you, Pablo).

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I do think it is funny though how the announcers always talk trades on every broadcast and then they always cut away to a shot of Dombronski sitting up high looking down on his minions like a vulture ready to swoop off his perch at any minute and carry one of the players away to parts unknown.

 

Between that, and the amount of time that the booth complains about Kimbrel in non-save situations, or Eckersley drooling over himself talking about 'straight ched'....

 

 

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The Red Sox have made four trades within the past week, including a move Thursday night to acquire All-Star lefty Drew Pomeranz from the San Diego Padres for 18-year-old top pitching prospect Anderson Espinoza. After president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski acquired Ziegler last Saturday, Dombrowski said the bullpen was "pretty well set."

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5 hours ago, b0nfire said:

The Red Sox have made four trades within the past week, including a move Thursday night to acquire All-Star lefty Drew Pomeranz from the San Diego Padres for 18-year-old top pitching prospect Anderson Espinoza. After president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski acquired Ziegler last Saturday, Dombrowski said the bullpen was "pretty well set."

Wow.  That was one major deal to get Pomeranz.  A certainly a one of the "big four" now gone deal.  But a deal that I approve of because Pomeranz in young and under control for 2 more years after this season.  A young pitcher with a bright future and some proven major league creds now as well.  Not an aging, one-season rental. 

This is in line with that quote he made the other day about how he could get a starter to Boston within 2 minutes on his phone but that wasn't the point.  The point was finding one that was right for the team

And here is the cool part, he waited until the Sox clearly had Groome locked up.  Groome now replaces Espinoza as their "next" super-young, super-pitching prospect and basically take Espinoza's place in the "big four" almost immediately.  No gutting the minor leagues leaving a major hole behind; replace first then trade.  Now these kind of moves I approve of.  I'm becoming a fan of Dombrowski quickly.  (Or until he screws up for the first time, heh).

And I wonder if the Sox were getting a little concerned about Espinoza's small frame long term too.  He is a very high ceiling guy but that lack of physical frame has always been the worry.  Maybe they played "sell high" in this deal in a risk/reward equation as well.

Anyway Pomerenz I thought was the only pitcher worth getting and I thought Texas for sure would have sealed the deal with Profar before now.  But Dombrowski made that other trade to SD building up relationships there in the process.  So now Dombrowski is like a vulture just swooping in.  "Hey Padres, I'm the guy that brought you Margot.  Now, see this kid in my claws named Anderson?  Ya want him?"

PS:  The bullpen being pretty set statement has to do with moving Joe Kelly to the bullpen as their multi-inning reliever and emergency starter.  I didn't know it at the time but apparently Kelly's last stint in Pawtucket was to come in out of the bullpen for just such a role prepping him in advance.  And this moves Matt Barnes back further in the bullpen where he can start to get into set-up work more in the future perhaps.

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As a fan of the team, prior to the trades they made for Pomeranz and Ziegler I was very concerned about the pitching staff and the bullpen. I'm still a little concerned about the pen more so than I am the rotation and here's why. 

 

Adding Ziegler has already proven to be key with the injuries to both Kimbrel and Koji. Kimbrel should be back in 3-4 weeks and Koji could be much longer I'm afraid. I think one of the biggest losses the pen suffered this year was Carson Smith. Now Ziegler steps into the 9th until Kimbrel comes back, which should work fine but leading up to him will be a question mark. Matt Barnes has been the best reliever the Sox have outside of their premier guys. Then they have a bunch of guys who are giving away bases in Buchholtz, Ross, and Layne. Hembree has been effective and pitched in some big spots recently but he too walks too many batters. Once Kimbrel comes back I think they will be much better when Ziegler can slide back into the 8th and then leave the 7th inning to Barnes and then play matchups with the rest. 

 

With regards to the starting rotation I'm not terribly concerned anymore. Price has been pitching better of late, Wright has been lights out, Porcello has been good, ERod needs to figure some things out and hopefully that last start is a sign that he has, and now add Pomeranz to the mix. I think Pom will be better than he was during his 1st start in BOS but I'm not expecting SD numbers.

 

The thing is the rotation doesn't need to be the best in baseball or anywhere near it since their lineup is so tough. They are 1st in batting average, OBP, SLG, OPS, hits, runs, rbis, xbh, and the best part....just 12th in home runs. I love that they have so many ways of scoring without relying on the long ball. This is a nice recipe for success in the postseason. 

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Don't forget Tazawa has just come back to the bullpen.  If Farell doesn't immediately destroy his arm by putting him into every game then that is a boost.  Wouldn't be surprised if Dombrowski goes after a middle reliever too.  Not for a top prospect but if there is a middle reliever fire sale come August 31st when teams holding realize there is way too much of a supply side surplus for their less than stellar second and third tier guys and it becomes a last minute buyers market maybe then.  Or via the waiver wire afterwards.

As to the Sandy Leon questions.  As long as he hits he should remain the prime catcher.  His defensive skills and ability to handle the staff have both proven excellent as well so that plus his bat makes him far more valuable than even the highly touted Vasquez this year who still can't hit his way out of a brown paper bag.  And the Sox have said when Swihart gets healthy they plan to play him in the OF again and not behind the plate any at least for the rest of this year.

I mentioned Leon's defense and handling the staff stuff above because I think even if he goes into a slump and obviously when he "regresses" from this insane BA he still has skills that would keep him up and catching.  It isn't just his bat but obviously that was why Vasquez went down.  They didn't dare put Leon on waivers since he has been making such a big splash.  Some team like a Cleveland would have scooped him up in a heart beat.  So yeah he should remain up the rest of the season and possibly beyond.  Well unless Cleveland wants to trade one of their starters for him, heh.

If any catcher gets dropped for Vasquez coming back up down the stretch I assume it would be Hanigan.  Hanigan's value right now is catching knuckleballer Steven Wright and not too well at times.  Vasquez showed he is very good at catching Wright the couple of times he has done so and seems to even like the challenge of doing it.  Hanigan's contract is up at the end of the season.  But with just a little over a month to go Vasquez probably won't be back until September.  Or maybe August 31st so he would qualify for playoffs? 

As to why Leon is suddenly hitting like Ted Williams escaped from his cryogenic tank, he claims it is because he is finally getting to play on a regular basis.  Which is a fair enough reason.  And I hope it is true.  I don't even want to think of the other possible reason given his BA has jumped 250 points from last year to this year, cough.  (Not suggesting this as true, he has been clean with no suggestions otherwise.  Just that if this keeps up some people might get suspicious).

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