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Accidental drops


Harry Twatter

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I think if you snooze you lose. If you walk up to a guy and punch him in the face and then realize oh s--- i hit the wrong guy. you try to explain to him man you look so much like this dude i hate. do you think he gonna say its ok man, nope your getting your a** beat. be more careful of what you do.

Good analogy, punching in the face, accidental drops, like comparing apples to apples.

Thanks for the Billy Madison analysis

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First off, let's all remember to keep the debate to facts & opinions, and let's not make this personal, as per the CoC.

And if you want my 2 cents, if you want to be in a *long-term* league, then you have to allow owners some latitude when accidental moves are made. Yes, this means you are *trusting* them to be honest, but if an owner *accidentally* drops Mariano, no one would argue that it was likely a mistake. You don't see teams dropping their star players because of such mistakes, and I don't see why FBB leagues should allow PC/keyboard errors as "part" of the game - errors of that magnitude don't happen in RL, and so they shouldn't be seen as part of the game in FBB leagues.

If an owner has to rely on other owners to accidentally drop players to better their team, then I'd wonder at the makeup of the league. I only play with long-time friends and associates, so maybe that's a key difference, but we allow our owners to fess up to mistakes and let 'em reverse such drops. Now, to be clear, if an owner says they made a mistake a *few days after* they made the move, we don't let that happen - we expect the owner to announce their mistake within 24 hours - and often, the Commish will send a PM if an obvious glitch (A-Rod getting dropped) happens. In the end, I'd rather win the league based on my *actual* moves, not because my competition made a mistake and dropped a guy that fell into my lap. That happens enough due to actual *intent* (Greinke got dropped last year @ $3 in my AL-only league, couldn't believe that) - those who make a mistake on their PC shouldn't be penalized for keyboard errors, only errors in actual judgment.

Food for thought.

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First off, let's all remember to keep the debate to facts & opinions, and let's not make this personal, as per the CoC.

And if you want my 2 cents, if you want to be in a *long-term* league, then you have to allow owners some latitude when accidental moves are made. Yes, this means you are *trusting* them to be honest, but if an owner *accidentally* drops Mariano, no one would argue that it was likely a mistake. You don't see teams dropping their star players because of such mistakes, and I don't see

If an owner has to rely on other owners to accidentally drop players to better their team, then I'd wonder at the makeup of the league. I only play with long-time friends and associates, so maybe that's a key difference, but we allow our owners to fess up to mistakes and let 'em reverse such drops. Now, to be clear, if an owner says they made a mistake a *few days after* they made the move, we don't let that happen - we expect the owner to announce their mistake within 24 hours - and often, the Commish will send a PM if an obvious glitch (A-Rod getting dropped) happens. In the end, I'd rather win the league based on my *actual* moves, not because my competition made a mistake and dropped a guy that fell into my lap. That happens enough due to actual *intent* (Greinke got dropped last year @ $3 in my AL-only league, couldn't believe that) - those who make a mistake on their PC shouldn't be penalized for keyboard errors, only errors in actual judgment.

Food for thought.

So, lets NOT make it personal, moderator or not.

My food for thought is:

I guess those terms should be written in the league rules not brought up when a situation arises depending on who cries the loudest or who is close friends with the commish or who just happens to want it changed back. Seriously, waivers is a decision of the commissioner and it does allow time for errors to be fixed privately without pegging one owner who happens to be on top of things. And to insult me as a manager because I strengthened my team in an area that was weak with a player that I held more valuable than the manager who droppped him should not make me subject to ridicule. I dropped a very good pitcher who should hit the DL someday soon and another manager who has the room may just pick him up before I get a chance to retrieve him for my DL. Does that make him suspect? Any league that does not subject add/drops to waiver time may be suspect to begin with and probably not for the benefit of a manager who's in their first year with that league. Also the reason for the undroppable list is to prevent those "obvious" accidents like dropping ARod.

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should have paid more attention. i don't see why this should be undone.

Because real GMs don't have to worry about clicking the wrong button and dropping the wrong guy, they contact agents, they get paperwork, sign off on, etc. All of this is reviewed by others. The least cbs can do is toss in a confirmation page. How hard do you think it is to check off the box underneath the one you meant to? I tried to drop ronnie brown after his injury in football and accidently dropped pat buchanon!

Point is it is too easy to make a simple point and click mistake, therefore there should be a confirmation page, and CBS should put the guy back on his roster

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First off, let's all remember to keep the debate to facts & opinions, and let's not make this personal, as per the CoC.

And if you want my 2 cents, if you want to be in a *long-term* league, then you have to allow owners some latitude when accidental moves are made. Yes, this means you are *trusting* them to be honest, but if an owner *accidentally* drops Mariano, no one would argue that it was likely a mistake. You don't see teams dropping their star players because of such mistakes, and I don't see why FBB leagues should allow PC/keyboard errors as "part" of the game - errors of that magnitude don't happen in RL, and so they shouldn't be seen as part of the game in FBB leagues.

If an owner has to rely on other owners to accidentally drop players to better their team, then I'd wonder at the makeup of the league. I only play with long-time friends and associates, so maybe that's a key difference, but we allow our owners to fess up to mistakes and let 'em reverse such drops. Now, to be clear, if an owner says they made a mistake a *few days after* they made the move, we don't let that happen - we expect the owner to announce their mistake within 24 hours - and often, the Commish will send a PM if an obvious glitch (A-Rod getting dropped) happens. In the end, I'd rather win the league based on my *actual* moves, not because my competition made a mistake and dropped a guy that fell into my lap. That happens enough due to actual *intent* (Greinke got dropped last year @ $3 in my AL-only league, couldn't believe that) - those who make a mistake on their PC shouldn't be penalized for keyboard errors, only errors in actual judgment.

Food for thought.

I couldnt agree more. I do play in a league with friends, but I decided I want a few teams this year since I felt "prepared" for baseball this year. If you see someone just dropped Carlos Pena for Gordon, wouldnt you check around a little?

Well, he said he doesnt check his league inbox and the league message board because it's full of bs. That works well for him in this instance. What about the 2 owners that were at 1 & 2 who decided to play fair and now the guy at 3 is sitting pretty with a new 1b/util to hit a few home runs? Sucks for them too!!

Bear in mind that the team name who picked up Pena was Roid Ragers. Sorry for the generalization, but its should come as no surprise he doesn't read his inbox after an owner drops Pena for Gordon with no injury to his 5th round pick!

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Because real GMs don't have to worry about clicking the wrong button and dropping the wrong guy, they contact agents, they get paperwork, sign off on, etc. All of this is reviewed by others. The least cbs can do is toss in a confirmation page. How hard do you think it is to check off the box underneath the one you meant to? I tried to drop ronnie brown after his injury in football and accidently dropped pat buchanon!

Point is it is too easy to make a simple point and click mistake, therefore there should be a confirmation page, and CBS should put the guy back on his roster

Period. End of conversation, imo. I dont like to get on here a complain about cbs, yahoo, espn, etc....doesnt do any good. But at least ESPN & yahoo can find the time to pay their programmer to put in a confirmation page. Geez. CBS scrapes off the top of EVERY pay league. It cant take that long to put in the confirmation page. Bad business sir

Phew, I dont feel like a complete bi$CH.

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It all comes down to this.

If you're in a real league, with competitive owners, etc. then you probably won't have this problem. Nobody is going to be a jerk and not give you your player back.

If you're in a public league with a bunch of jokers, you should know to double check when you drop someone. Why expect some person around the country who doesnt even know anything about fantasy baseball to not pick up that player, when he knows the random joker who is next in line will just pick him up instead?

You get what you pay for...it's all in the company you keep. Instead of complaining about how it's unfair, you should find a better, long-term league. Yes, the guy who picked up your accidentally dropped player is being a jerk, but what else would you possibly expect? If it's a public league, they could be a 14 year old Japanese girl who is just randomly mashing on keys for all you know.

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It all comes down to this.

If you're in a real league, with competitive owners, etc. then you probably won't have this problem. Nobody is going to be a jerk and not give you your player back.

If you're in a public league with a bunch of jokers, you should know to double check when you drop someone. Why expect some person around the country who doesnt even know anything about fantasy baseball to not pick up that player, when he knows the random joker who is next in line will just pick him up instead?

You get what you pay for...it's all in the company you keep. Instead of complaining about how it's unfair, you should find a better, long-term league. Yes, the guy who picked up your accidentally dropped player is being a jerk, but what else would you possibly expect? If it's a public league, they could be a 14 year old Japanese girl who is just randomly mashing on keys for all you know.

I said I am in a good, long-term league. Thanks for the advice though.

For those who care, but can still continue to discuss the issue....the owner accepted the trade of Tom Gordon/Parra for Pena. All things considered, I am pretty happy.

Man, I thought I was cynical. wow

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So, lets NOT make it personal, moderator or not.

My food for thought is:

I guess those terms should be written in the league rules not brought up when a situation arises depending on who cries the loudest or who is close friends with the commish or who just happens to want it changed back. Seriously, waivers is a decision of the commissioner and it does allow time for errors to be fixed privately without pegging one owner who happens to be on top of things. And to insult me as a manager because I strengthened my team in an area that was weak with a player that I held more valuable than the manager who droppped him should not make me subject to ridicule. I dropped a very good pitcher who should hit the DL someday soon and another manager who has the room may just pick him up before I get a chance to retrieve him for my DL. Does that make him suspect? Any league that does not subject add/drops to waiver time may be suspect to begin with and probably not for the benefit of a manager who's in their first year with that league. Also the reason for the undroppable list is to prevent those "obvious" accidents like dropping ARod.

To be clear, beantown, I didn't even make a reference to you or others, so please don't assume I was referring to any one owner. You will notice I did not refer to any one example, sorry if you took it that way - I am referring to the whole concept of teams that clearly drop a player *by accident* - which is why I did not refer to any one team, or situation. I don't even know if your example falls within the same situation - I simply used Mariano Rivera & A-Rod as examples where teams (assuming we're talking pre-season) would *never* conceivably drop a player.

The main point of my post is that the league makeup has to be in question if a league allows clear mistakes *not to be corrected*, when they are mistakes of PC savvyness/keyboard mistakes. And yes, league *makeup* and/or *waiver systems* should be reviewed as well. As an example, I accidentally dropped Brett Favre in 1 league instead of reserving him, and immediately announced the error to the league. No one put in a claim, and the next day I re-claimed him. Point being, if I'm in a league with my friends, and a team makes an *honest* and indisputable mistake by accident, not by judgment, a league that is made for the *long-term* is best served to rectify those mistakes.

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I was in a CBS baseball league last season and HATED it. I found it to be very user-unfriendly.

As much as people complain about Yahoo leagues, I like the fact that they are organized and take precautions to eliminate situations like these. Their live stats may not be the best, but who cares?!?!?

I'm glad to hear the situation was resolved.

I'm actually in a pretty big money dynasty league for football and in 2006 a guy dropped Plaxico Burress on accident. He posted that it was an accident and that he was on pain meds at the time. Surprisingly, the commish did not reverse the transaction.

Because of that instance, we're always very careful when submitting our blind bid waivers and who we would like to drop when making moves.

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Unfortunately, it is for $125 dollars, and it is really your fault.

Step in his shoes for a minute (maybe he's hurting for saves), and a really good closer is just dropped and he jumps on it. He wants to win too, so where is the incentive for him to give him back to you - just being nice? All is fair when it comes to money!

But, just troll the waiver wires and hope a new saves candidate comes around.

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I don't see why FBB leagues should allow PC/keyboard errors as "part" of the game - errors of that magnitude don't happen in RL, and so they shouldn't be seen as part of the game in FBB leagues.

Not that I disagree with you (I actually think your approach to the situation is exactly correct) but these thing DO happen in real life. Just ask Terrell Owens.

That said, the prime difference between real life and fantasy sports in that Owens has a highly paid agent whose whole job it is to ensure that the paperwork is filed correctly and ontime, for us this is just a hobby and as such we don't have time quadruple checking every move we make to ensure there is no mistake.

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Guest ciderjack6

This season in my hockey league I dropped Patrick Kane by accident (I wanted to drop Shane Doan).

I immediately made a post and the commish fixed it.

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Not that I disagree with you (I actually think your approach to the situation is exactly correct) but these thing DO happen in real life. Just ask Terrell Owens.

That said, the prime difference between real life and fantasy sports in that Owens has a highly paid agent whose whole job it is to ensure that the paperwork is filed correctly and ontime, for us this is just a hobby and as such we don't have time quadruple checking every move we make to ensure there is no mistake.

Rasilio, you are 100 percent correct on TO, but there's one key distinction that you alluded to - the TO error was because one guy didn't do his job, and that was to void a contract. In RL, *teams* don't accidentally drop a superstar player, because as other posters pointed out, they have *multiple* guys working on these points. And while it *has* happened with marginal players (putting them through waivers instead of DL, etc.), it has *not* happened with star players to my recollection - if there is one, I'd stand corrected, but I can't recall a *star* player or even a *key* regular accidentally dropped/waived - I could see them not having their contract in by the deadline, but not outright dropped when they are an active member on an active roster.

And FWIW, Harry, I'm happy to hear the other owner did the right thing. It's one thing if an owner makes a bad decision and then wants to reverse it, I have *zero* sympathy in those cases. But a misclick? As I said before, maybe it's because I only play in leagues where I know the guys I'm playing with (and they're all for $ too), and I can think of about 4x it's happened (me once with Favre being waived instead of put on the reserve list, other owners once) - we've accomodated those errors *each & every time*. In the end, if you want your league to thrive long-term, there has to be good faith applied as a whole IMO, so I'm glad to hear common sense prevailed - as you've been in the league a long time, it's heartening to see them act to correct glitches that just don't happen in any other format of competition.

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One time I accidentally dropped Joe Nathan instead of Moe Jathan. Wow, what a mistake!

But yeah, sorry to hear this happened to you. I hope you win anyways. The time I accidentally dropped a good player in F Football, I wound up winning anyways and shoved it in the face of the commish and the guy who picked the player up.

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Rasilio, you are 100 percent correct on TO, but there's one key distinction that you alluded to - the TO error was because one guy didn't do his job, and that was to void a contract. In RL, *teams* don't accidentally drop a superstar player, because as other posters pointed out, they have *multiple* guys working on these points. And while it *has* happened with marginal players (putting them through waivers instead of DL, etc.), it has *not* happened with star players to my recollection - if there is one, I'd stand corrected, but I can't recall a *star* player or even a *key* regular accidentally dropped/waived - I could see them not having their contract in by the deadline, but not outright dropped when they are an active member on an active roster.

And FWIW, Harry, I'm happy to hear the other owner did the right thing. It's one thing if an owner makes a bad decision and then wants to reverse it, I have *zero* sympathy in those cases. But a misclick? As I said before, maybe it's because I only play in leagues where I know the guys I'm playing with (and they're all for $ too), and I can think of about 4x it's happened (me once with Favre being waived instead of put on the reserve list, other owners once) - we've accomodated those errors *each & every time*. In the end, if you want your league to thrive long-term, there has to be good faith applied as a whole IMO, so I'm glad to hear common sense prevailed - as you've been in the league a long time, it's heartening to see them act to correct glitches that just don't happen in any other format of competition.

Thanks man. Like I told the owner, get ready for Pena to break his leg in a week B)

The analogy I use to those who think, well you made a mistake, it's for money so you're screwed, etc, etc.......If you are making a financial transaction and you accidentally add a zero. Now the other side said sorry you added the extra zero so you are screwed, even though you told them right after you messed up. So instead of paying them $9,000 you have to pay them $90,000 beause you made a physical error. Would you want them to say, well it's for money so your screwed?

I think it's pretty clear cut to me. Understand that cbs has no extra confirmation page and read the emails I sent. I would never go and pick up an accidental drop if I was notified right after they made the drop. I don't want to win anything being shady myself. Now you can look at it however you want, but I think being empathetic & understanding might be the better route.

Good luck to all that have this happen in the future.

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This season in my hockey league I dropped Patrick Kane by accident (I wanted to drop Shane Doan).

I immediately made a post and the commish fixed it.

Really?

Zqrtylo Ptylzfg and Ulqjhh Xxwwrt? I can't believe it!

Sorry, couldn't resist. I know there are many a folk that play and watch hockey.

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"Ethics" often applies to the shades of gray in the unwritten rules. What comprises the unwritten rules varies from individual to individual and result in incidents like this one and the differences of opinions registered herein, which I must say that despite a few tense moments was the most successful discussing of ethics I've seen in a thread on this board as it never crashed and burned.

For me in this case -and cases similar- it comes down to the fact that you didn't need any acumen at all to improve your team by claiming the mistakenly waived player. Any time a mistake, glitch or loop-hole allows you to improve your team without risk, strategy or knowledge you are taking advantage of a situation, and if built in to the program and format it is called an "exploit". And you are exploiting the situation regardless.

Before you say "There goes Titanium Man getting all holier than thou again" let me say these 2 things:

) Ethics exists and always will. We will always judge each other for behavior that goes beyond the written rules. It is up to us to recognize that fact regardless of our motivation. Profiting off of someone's mistake is always going to be met by disagreement whatever the stakes may be.

) I have committed unethical acts twice:

- Many years ago, I took advantage of an exploit in the site to Win a Free League for dog'ssakes, all because this gamer disrespected me. In a Limit League it turned out that you could start multiple Pitchers on your last day and have them all count. That is to say: Sitting at 160 SP APPS I started 4 SP. All Starts counted because the site program couldn't recognize just 2 of the games. Turns out I didn't need those other Starts to Win the league. In fact, I pretty much knew that going in. I still utilized the exploit.

I broke the rules. I committed an unethical act. I did something to help my team that in no way reflected upon my superior fantasy sports acumen. No rule against it, really. But I broke one anyway.

- 2 weeks ago I blew off a draft at zero hour, leaving the League Manager and Commissioner in a lurch. Because the site "ranking" function was not disabled hand friendly I had mangled my Top 50 just that day as I was trying to adjust my bottom 50. This was something that I could deal with "live". It was not something the League could deal with with me "dead". I mistakenly assumed that the LM/Commish could draft the team as I can in my capacity as Commissioner at the sites I used. I assumed wrong. And although I feel I have legitimate personal reasons for leaving that draft I can claim no legitimacy to the resulting actions leaving that LM/Commish in a lurch.

It was not ethical. And I have to accept that, again, regardless of my reasoning.

____________

So I am certainly not maintaining I am pure as the driven snow. I ain't the pope of fantasy sports.

There are lines. We can cross them or blur them. But we can't make them go away.

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I have been doing CBS leagues for years. I have accidently dropped guys I didn't mean to and the thing is, be more careful. Does it suck, yes. But the playing field is the same for all parties. Sorry to hear you screwed up but thats just how it goes. I own 2 baseball teams on CBS. 1 is my baseball commish league which we all pay 500 and the other I do is the diamond league for 250 which is random and these things happen. You are not the first person to do this and you are certainly not going to be the last. It is time to move on and be more careful in the future.

This is simply wrong. The competative balance of the league is manipulated by a mistake like that. In addition do you want to win because a fellow player made an accident? Do you want somebody else to win for that reason? I would say when were talking about a league with such a small payout the answer should be no and no. Leagues shouldnt just move on from something like this. Either the commish should put things the way they ought to be or if he in not comfortable doing that he should do a league vote (and I promise you most of the league will vote to return things to normal).

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