Brady vs Manning

[Dislimb 1,411]

Manning: 9 "one-and-done" playoff chokes

Brady: 9 AFC Championship Game appearances

Just sayin'. 

[joshua18 7,029]

15 minutes ago, Dislimb said:

Manning: 9 "one-and-done" playoff chokes

Brady: 9 AFC Championship Game appearances

Just sayin'. 

 

Plus no one in NFL history has lost more playoff games than Peyton. 

[predator_05 3,374]

23 minutes ago, Dislimb said:

Manning: 9 "one-and-done" playoff chokes

Brady: 9 AFC Championship Game appearances

Just sayin'. 

 

But Manning won 3 of the 4 AFC championship games played against Tom Brady. #owned #GOAT #debateover #chickenparmtastessogood

 

 

 

 

[ChasinDatPaper 121]

As if football is a one man show. I hate how fans rank a QB on wins, smh. Such a misleading stat.

[predator_05 3,374]

15 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

As if football is a one man show. I hate how fans rank a QB on wins, smh. Such a misleading stat.

 

Come on bro, we all know joe flacco and eli manning are just as good as aaron Rodgers. Because #winzzzzz

[My Dinner With Andre 5,802]

5 hours ago, General Gannicus said:

 

This is a good read and its a bit older so it doesn't even take into account Brady's current record breaking season..

 

http://www.footballnation.com/content/no-debate-facts-show-tom-brady-better-than-peyton-manning/31873/

 

 

 

 

Again, what record did Tom Brady break? TD:INT ratio? Who cares? There's a reason I don't see the stat referenced anywhere (eg, player cards, stat rankings).

 

Oh yeah--Nick Foles previously held "the record" before Brady "broke it". David Garrard held it from 2007-2009. And Steve DeBerg was the proud holder for more than a decade--1990 to 2007--until Garrard eclipsed it.

 

Impressive indeed.

Edited January 5, 2017 by My Dinner With Andre

[dashoe 6,462]

Peyton is just so much cooler than Brady. Like really really really cool

Brady is just so awkward and lacks personality.  He's like a male model with great hair and that's it.

[joshua18 7,029]

11 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

Again, what record did Tom Brady break? TD:INT ratio? Who cares? There's a reason I don't see the stat referenced anywhere (eg, player cards, stat rankings).

 

Because most long-term starters don't even come close to breaking it except Brady.  He now has 2 of the best ratios of all time (2010: 36 TDs/4 INTs, 2016: 28 TDs/2 INTs).  The only other long-time starter who comes close is Rodgers (2011: 45 TDs/6 INTs).  Certainly Peyton would never come close to making a list like this given that he is more of a gunslinger, which has other benefits and drawbacks. 

 

Most of those who previously held the record were game managers on predominantly run-first teams, like Steve Deberg when he set the record in the 1990 season at age 36 for KC (best ever play-action QB until Peyton copied and improved his play fake technique) under Schottenheimer, Gerrard on JAX with MJD, and even Foles back in 2013 when McCoy was the focus of the offense.  Brady clearly is not that.

 

[dashoe 6,462]

25 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Because most long-term starters don't even come close to breaking it except Brady.  He now has 2 of the best ratios of all time (2010: 36 TDs/4 INTs, 2016: 28 TDs/2 INTs).  The only other long-time starter who comes close is Rodgers (2011: 45 TDs/6 INTs).  Certainly Peyton would never come close to making a list like this given that he is more of a gunslinger, which has other benefits and drawbacks. 

 

Most of those who previously held the record were game managers on predominantly run-first teams, like Steve Deberg when he set the record in the 1990 season at age 36 for KC (best ever play-action QB until Peyton copied and improved his play fake technique) under Schottenheimer, Gerrard on JAX with MJD, and even Foles back in 2013 when McCoy was the focus of the offense.  Brady clearly is not that.

 

 

 

 

After reading all of that, all I came away with is Peyton is The GOAT and Brady is an Almost the  GOAT

[devaster 4,399]

19 hours ago, Dislimb said:

Manning: 9 "one-and-done" playoff chokes

Brady: 9 AFC Championship Game appearances

Just sayin'. 

 

There is a great article breaking all of that down. It isn't really as bad as it looks on paper though. Aaron Rodgers has struggled since winning a SB progressing in the playoffs, but people continue to say he is the best QB in the NFL. It is a team sport. Coaching staff, front office, ownership, and the team all matter. Way too much blame and credit is given to the QB position. It is definitely the most important position on a team, but too much weight is given to it.

[dashoe 6,462]

6 minutes ago, devaster said:

 

There is a great article breaking all of that down. It isn't really as bad as it looks on paper though. Aaron Rodgers has struggled since winning a SB progressing in the playoffs, but people continue to say he is the best QB in the NFL. It is a team sport. Coaching staff, front office, ownership, and the team all matter. Way too much blame and credit is given to the QB position. It is definitely the most important position on a team, but too much weight is given to it.

 

 

I agree 100% and when it is all said and done Peyton is The GOAT

[My Dinner With Andre 5,802]

17 minutes ago, devaster said:

 

There is a great article breaking all of that down. It isn't really as bad as it looks on paper though. Aaron Rodgers has struggled since winning a SB progressing in the playoffs, but people continue to say he is the best QB in the NFL. It is a team sport. Coaching staff, front office, ownership, and the team all matter. Way too much blame and credit is given to the QB position. It is definitely the most important position on a team, but too much weight is given to it.

 

Heck, even kickers matter! Who can forget Vinatieri making clutch kick after clutch kick for the Pats. Meanwhile Mike Vanderjagt shanks a potential game-tying field goal for Peyton in a 21-18 loss to the Steelers.

[joshua18 7,029]

8 minutes ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

Heck, even kickers matter! Who can forget Vinatieri making clutch kick after clutch kick for the Pats. Meanwhile Mike Vanderjagt shanks a potential game-tying field goal for Peyton in a 21-18 loss to the Steelers.

 

They both had Vinatieri for 6 seasons. One won 3 rings, the other won 1. 

 

[devaster 4,399]

34 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

They both had Vinatieri for 6 seasons. One won 3 rings, the other won 1. 

 

Great logic...

[diverz4 101]

http://www.si.com/nfl/tom-brady-peyton-manning-history-box-score

 

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

9 hours ago, dashoe said:

Peyton is just so much cooler than Brady. Like really really really cool

Brady is just so awkward and lacks personality.  He's like a male model with great hair and that's it.

 

Early consideration for most whack post of the year...

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

4 hours ago, My Dinner With Andre said:

 

Heck, even kickers matter! Who can forget Vinatieri making clutch kick after clutch kick for the Pats. Meanwhile Mike Vanderjagt shanks a potential game-tying field goal for Peyton in a 21-18 loss to the Steelers.

 

Vinatieri also kicked 5 field goals in the divisional round of the 2006 playoffs at Baltimore, a game the Colts won 15-6 en route to their only Super Bowl win with Peyton. 

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

22 hours ago, predator_05 said:

 

Come on bro, we all know joe flacco and eli manning are just as good as aaron Rodgers. Because #winzzzzz

 

I've said this until I'm blue in the face, but I'll say it again. When discussing two of the greatest to play the position, Super Bowl wins absolutely should be considered. It doesn't mean Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino or Brad Johnson better than Jim Kelly - that's obviously dumb. But when discussing Brady/Manning, titles should be considered when debating the two. Otherwise, Drew Brees beats Brady hands down.

[psygolf 2,791]

Why are we arguing who is 2nd on the all-time list?

[dashoe 6,462]

18 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

I've said this until I'm blue in the face, but I'll say it again. When discussing two of the greatest to play the position, Super Bowl wins absolutely should be considered. It doesn't mean Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino or Brad Johnson better than Jim Kelly - that's obviously dumb. But when discussing Brady/Manning, titles should be considered when debating the two. Otherwise, Drew Brees beats Brady hands down.

 

 

Then maybe Drew Brees should be in the convo too even moreso considering he is only like 5'11

Edited January 5, 2017 by dashoe

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

20 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Then maybe Drew Brees should be in the convo too even moreso considering he is only like 5'11

 

He's like Dan Marino, except with a Super Bowl win. I think he gets overlooked a lot.

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

26 minutes ago, psygolf said:

Why are we arguing who is 2nd on the all-time list?

 

Take it to the Jim McMahon thread, psy.

[psygolf 2,791]

2 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Take it to the Jim McMahon thread, psy.

 

 

 

...bears.

[predator_05 3,374]

1 hour ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

I've said this until I'm blue in the face, but I'll say it again. When discussing two of the greatest to play the position, Super Bowl wins absolutely should be considered. It doesn't mean Trent Dilfer was better than Dan Marino or Brad Johnson better than Jim Kelly - that's obviously dumb. But when discussing Brady/Manning, titles should be considered when debating the two. Otherwise, Drew Brees beats Brady hands down.

 

Why is it appropriate to use this argument for one comparison and not for another? Oftentimes, people use the rings and wins argument to claim brady > peyton, or brady = GOAT. It's the only bullet they have in their gun.  I have no issues with people valuing playoff wins, rings, etc. but if you use that argument, you have to use it equally across the board and accept the results for what they are. Otherwise the objectivity - assuming that's what they are aiming for - is compromised. 

 

Btw, I dont think pointing out dilfer > Marino in terms of rings equates to saying dilfer was better. He just has more rings, and it tells me that winning superbowls has a lot to do with the team you have and how lucky you get. That's it. In other words, one player shouldn't own the credit for what was essentially a team achievement. 

 

 

[mrblonde1984 4,441]

Just now, predator_05 said:

 It's the only bullet they have in their gun.  I have no issues with people valuing playoff wins, rings, etc. but if you use that argument, you have to use it equally across the board and accept the results for what they are. Otherwise the objectivity - assuming that's what they are aiming for - is compromised. 

 

Btw, I dont think pointing out dilfer > Marino in terms of rings equates to saying dilfer was better. He just has more rings, and it tells me that winning superbowls has a lot to do with the team you have and how lucky you get. That's it. In other words, one player shouldn't own the credit for what was essentially a team achievement. 

 

 

 

It's not the only bullet in the gun, be real. The whole thread has more reasons than just Brady 4, Manning 2. Playoff stats, regular season stats, their surrounding cast, coaching, and championships, dome vs outdoors are all fair game. You saying all Brady supporters have is the SB wins argument is pretty disrespectful to all the posts that don't even mention titles. But I expect that from a blind Jets homer...it's ok.

 

We don't consider titles when comparing all QBs because all QBs aren't consensus top 5. Everyone's list will include Brady/Manning (well, maybe not Brady on Jets homer lists), so that's when all the other stuff besides their overall stats goes under the microscope. 

 

It is a team game but the quarterback is the most important position. As a Jets fan, that should ring loud and clear. Stop pretending like titles don't matter because a handful of average QBs won titles on the backs of historic defenses (McMahon, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Peyton last year).

 

Saying it's all a "team achievement" is weak. I can say that for everything then. Manning's TD record? Not just his. Without an offensive line, great weapons and a bad enough defense that made him have to throw so much, he'd never have the record.

 

See how that works? If we're just gonna cop out and say titles are only a team achievement, then why even have the discussion? The team does matter, but so does the QB (in most instances).