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3 hours ago, BMcP said:

26 pages...did Manning ever get suspended for a quarter of a season for cheating?

 

Nope. Now that I've answered your condescending question, can you give any kind of insight into the subject of the thread? Or is it, "Brady R cheeter so he sux" ???

 

You Patriot haters want SO bad for deflategate to matter in the big picture, but sadly, the support for Brady and disdain for Goodell has only grown. Keep hanging on to that thread though! Never let go!

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9 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Brady was found guilty. Wich is why he got the 4 game suspension. Peyton wasn't. 

 

That's not the point. He was totally aware and had a hand in making sure the footballs were at the PSI he wanted, even if it was below the legal limit. Just like Rodgers admitted he liked them OVER inflated.

 

The point is the punishment doesn't fit the crime. It's like getting jail time for jay walking. Did you commit the crime? Yes. Was your punishment for that crime bull****? Hell yes. Only Pats haters think the punishment was deserved.

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17 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Brady was found guilty. Wich is why he got the 4 game suspension. Peyton wasn't. 

Was found "more likely than not generally aware." Which, if we were being fair to everyone, should mean any PED violation should be investigated to see if that player's position group was (more likely than not) generally aware that a specific player was juicing. And if a WR is found to be using stickum, I would imagine at least the WR coach, every WR, the QB, and possible the TE's should know, so let's suspend them too. And of course, Carolina should have been investigated and docked a draft pick for heating balls on the sidelines in 2014, since tampering with footballs is cheating and heating is clearly against league guidelines.  

 

But yeah, Brady is totally guilty and a uniquely horrible cheater. The inconsistency is my problem with the NFL's handling of deflategate. 

 

As far as whether it did anything for him (and thus I think the only relevance to this discussion), he has had NO decline whatsoever when he is obviously using appropriate footballs (and I suspect he always has, at least within officials' give-a-darn meter). 

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5 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Nope. Now that I've answered your condescending question, can you give any kind of insight into the subject of the thread? Or is it, "Brady R cheeter so he sux" ???

 

You Patriot haters want SO bad for deflategate to matter in the big picture, but sadly, the support for Brady and disdain for Goodell has only grown. Keep hanging on to that thread though! Never let go!

 

It wasn't meant to be "condescending" - it was more an expression of astonishment that the subject hadn't been discussed, as I believed it fell directly within the rubric of this thread.

 

I personally believe the fact that Brady likely was complicit in a cheating scheme, coupled with the fact that his team and head coach had previously been punished for an unrelated cheating scheme, diminished Brady's accomplishments to a degree.

 

Your thoughts?

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12 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

It wasn't meant to be "condescending" - it was more an expression of astonishment that the subject hadn't been discussed, as I believed it fell directly within the rubric of this thread.

 

I personally believe the fact that Brady likely was complicit in a cheating scheme, coupled with the fact that his team and head coach had previously been punished for an unrelated cheating scheme, diminished Brady's accomplishments to a degree.

 

Your thoughts?

 

My thoughts are..

 

brady is the goat. 

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40 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

That's not the point. He was totally aware and had a hand in making sure the footballs were at the PSI he wanted, even if it was below the legal limit. Just like Rodgers admitted he liked them OVER inflated.

 

The point is the punishment doesn't fit the crime. It's like getting jail time for jay walking. Did you commit the crime? Yes. Was your punishment for that crime bull****? Hell yes. Only Pats haters think the punishment was deserved.

 

 

So thats not cheating? Theres a rule about the PSl of the footballs. I can't compare that to jay walking

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1 hour ago, shakestreet said:

right on ash

 

noticed all those so-called Manning for GOAT passed over this post like it never existed

Sorry I missed the post I would pick Manning, now  if you are talking coaches i would pick Belicheck. 

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1 hour ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Nope. Now that I've answered your condescending question, can you give any kind of insight into the subject of the thread? Or is it, "Brady R cheeter so he sux" ???

 

You Patriot haters want SO bad for deflategate to matter in the big picture, but sadly, the support for Brady and disdain for Goodell has only grown. Keep hanging on to that thread though! Never let go!

 

Brady was railroaded. Anyone with a brain realizes that.

 

It's sad to see bitter fans hold on to this.

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4 hours ago, ASHLANDARROWS1992 said:

IF you had to pick 1 quarterback to win a game with lets say 10 grand on the line, those of you who would choose manning over brady are simply DELUSIONAL.

I would pick Peyton  and if it was a coach I would pick Belicheck

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37 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

 

 

So thats not cheating? Theres a rule about the PSl of the footballs. I can't compare that to jay walking

There's rules against jaywalking.  

 

That punishment of Brady is comparable to someone getting penalized for a DUI while being guilty of jaywalking (if you accept that this MIT professor is incorrect). Hence the analogy.

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1 hour ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

That's not the point. He was totally aware and had a hand in making sure the footballs were at the PSI he wanted, even if it was below the legal limit. Just like Rodgers admitted he liked them OVER inflated.

 

The point is the punishment doesn't fit the crime. It's like getting jail time for jay walking. Did you commit the crime? Yes. Was your punishment for that crime bull****? Hell yes. Only Pats haters think the punishment was deserved.

 

 

Never heard anyone take issue with the punishment. The fact is the NFL determined Brady was knowingly involved with cheating, it's simple,  no need to redefine cheating.  No need to compare it to other investigations or cheating scandals or the fairness of it all. There is a rule and Brady as part of the organization broke the rule. Simple as that.

 

What's more interesting is the pats have a history of being caught CHEATING. So yes cheating does and it is  a credible measure when applied to a player and a team.

 

Why dispute the fact that there was cheating?

 

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16 minutes ago, dashoe said:

I would pick Peyton  and if it was a coach I would pick Belicheck

how many pages ago did I call you a joke? 

 

I honestly believe you know Brady is the greatest of all time ..... couple of the others I ain't so sure of

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16 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Never heard anyone take issue with the punishment. The fact is the NFL determined Brady was knowingly involved with cheating, it's simple,  no need to redefine cheating.  No need to compare it to other investigations or cheating scandals or the fairness of it all. There is a rule and Brady as part of the organization broke the rule. Simple as that.

 

What's more interesting is the pats have a history of being caught CHEATING. So yes cheating does and it is  a credible measure when applied to a player and a team.

 

Why dispute the fact that there was cheating?

 

And that rule stated the punishment was a small fine (for an NFL player).  In other words, it's supposed to be the equivalent of a small traffic violation.  Other teams (as recently as 2014) were caught on camera tampering with footballs (via heating them) and simply told to knock it off.  

 

The rules and defined punishment don't set it up as something particularly serious. History of other violators says it isn't particularly serious.  Therefore, a punishment beyond it being a trivial violation does not follow NFL listed or established responses.

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7 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

 

 

So your accepting the fact that he's a cheater, correct?

 

I'm accepting the fact that he knowingly violated a rule most QBs will tell you gets violated all the time. Not all rule violations are created equal. You can try to paint it as black and white as you like to fit your bias, but it's just not true. Hence the different penalties for different violations. 

 

Not wearing NFL approved cleats will get you a fine because you violated a rule. Are you a cheater because of that? Rules are rules, right?

 

Also, the Patriots passed violations have NOTHING to do with Brady. If you think Brady had anything to do with Spygate, well, I guess we can just end the convo here. 

 

Goodell came down hard on NE because he destroyed the tapes from Spygate and pissed off the owners. So he made up for it by taking it out on Brady with a bull**** suspension. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

Brady  is 1 and 3 In championship games against QB Manning. Plus before last night Brady numbers in AFC games 12 TD 12 ints passing rating 76.3 obviously is a team sport

 

Whoa whoa whoa...I've been told countless times here that playoffs don't matter. Why are we focusing on JUST the AFC Championship here? Is it because Brady is 11-6 lifetime vs Manning? 

 

If we're going to weigh the playoffs more heavy for Manning, then all you're doing is helping prove my point that Brady is the GOAT because he blows Manning out of the water when it comes to playoff performances.

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3 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

Whoa whoa whoa...I've been told countless times here that playoffs don't matter. Why are we focusing on JUST the AFC Championship here? Is it because Brady is 11-6 lifetime vs Manning? 

 

If we're going to weigh the playoffs more heavy for Manning, then all you're doing is helping prove my point that Brady is the GOAT because he blows Manning out of the water when it comes to playoff performances.

He played for the most consistent organization in NFL plus don't forget that defense he had when he won the first 3 Super Bowls

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2 hours ago, BMcP said:

 

It wasn't meant to be "condescending" - it was more an expression of astonishment that the subject hadn't been discussed, as I believed it fell directly within the rubric of this thread.

 

I personally believe the fact that Brady likely was complicit in a cheating scheme, coupled with the fact that his team and head coach had previously been punished for an unrelated cheating scheme, diminished Brady's accomplishments to a degree.

 

Your thoughts?

 

If that were the case, it would be brought up every time NE and Brady are discussed. But all I hear are analysts, many who are former players, calling him the GOAT. 

 

All deflategate did was give butthurt Patriot haters a reason to say his career is diminished in an effort to try to discredit the team's accomplishments.

 

It takes nothing away from the insane run this team has been on since 2001.

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4 minutes ago, ChasinDatPaper said:

He played for the most consistent organization in NFL plus don't forget that defense he had when he won the first 3 Super Bowls

 

Totally. The defense really came through in their 32-29 victory over Carolina where he set a Super Bowl record for the most pass completions (32), completing 66.7 percent of his passes and accumulating 354 passing yards, 3 touchdowns.

 

Also, your "point" was brought up pages and pages ago and has already been discussed. 

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Peyton Manning never had to play with Reche Caldwell as his WR1. You can say Brady had better defenses and better coaching - Manning had better skill position players and played at least half of his games in a dome every year. These points have all been brought up and made already. Would it kill some of you to read the thread and bring something new up to the table?

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7 minutes ago, mrblonde1984 said:

 

If that were the case, it would be brought up every time NE and Brady are discussed. But all I hear are analysts, many who are former players, calling him the GOAT. 

 

All deflategate did was give butthurt Patriot haters a reason to say his career is diminished in an effort to try to discredit the team's accomplishments.

 

It takes nothing away from the insane run this team has been on since 2001.

 

Fair enough - you're entitled to your opinion.

 

For me, the "GOAT" is Manning.  The fact that this debate has extended beyond 26 pages is proof that it is a close question.  And had Brady and Belichick not cheated, I might have selected Brady.  For me, it's a fact that has to be factored into the analysis.

 

It's hard for me to understand how you can simultaneously call those who don't agree with you "butthurt haters" while calling others "condescending."

 

 

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