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Wilson Ramos 2017 Outlook


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31 minutes ago, Rainyy said:

What I suspect is implicitly going on is that when he says "deep" leagues, he means really deep. I am also curious to see how many bench spots he uses. 

In a 16+ highly competitive league I can see some logic to having multiple catchers since the waiver wire options are dismal. You will only be able to stash so many high upside guys that maximizing ABs becomes relatively more important. 

The lower average quality of players also means a relatively poor producing position such as catcher are relatively more valuable.

To bring this more on topic, I am currently rostering both McCann and Ramos in a 12-teamer - a dilemma similar to what I am sure many of you face - and am not happy about it. I am having to miss out on guys like Frazier by rostering two catchers. Good problem to have I guess and I like Ramos more than anyone not named Gary Sanchez. 

I've seen you tout your own brilliance in rostering multiple catchers many times in the past, and you rarely condition this with "I play in dynasty" or include other pertinent information like league size and bench spots. 

It's fine to say this strategy works for you (I believe you that it does), but you often present it matter-of-factly like it is a universally good strategy. However, you should acknowledge that dynasty leagues represent a minority of leagues, as do, more importantly, "deep leagues."

Without knowing more specific details of your situation I can't say for sure, but your arguments about catcher value seem potentially less about catchers themselves and more about format-related strategy. 

Seep leagues = 14 teams or more.  (12 teams seems the standard Yahoo default). 

I'm talking about one 14 team league, two 16 team leagues and a 20 team league.  27 to 30 man rosters.

And I ALWAYS mention I play dynasty.  I go out of my way to always mention it.  I never not mention it when I make points like this whether in catching or any other discussion.  It's my m.o. in this forum to make sure we all know the parameters of these things.  I mentioned it in the very first post here about all this.  Not everyone plays in re-draft leagues.  Lots of us don't and on a high quality fantasy baseball board you will find us in greater numbers than ratios of leagues on these platforms.  Yet it is expected here that we always must mention it and so I do.

Matter of factly?  Yes, it is a fact it works.  There are other methods of wining no doubt.  You use them all if possible.  A methos is a tool.  You do want as many tools in your belt as possible don't you? 

I am just stating a method has has been tried over and over again and shown to work.  Do I always win in every league all the time?  No but then there are injuries and other stacked teams etc and I pick up an occasional rebuild to work on over a couple of year as well.  But when I do get a team rebuilt this way it takes a lot of injuries for me not to win or make the finals in most leagues.  In h2h it then comes down to top teams and which team is hotter in the playoffs of course.  I've won when I have had a lesser team on paper and lost when I have had the better team on paper at times like everyone else here no doubt.  But that is a situation where that catcher gambit really really helps and can make the ultimate difference for you.  And has for me at times.  Last year in four leagues (I traded in one for the new 20 team league this year cause I wanted a rebuild to keep me interested) in those four leagues I won two, came in second in one and third in the other.  The third place one (16 team roto) was a new rebuild I took on last year and the catching made the difference there for sure.

Sorry you guys go so ballistic over me mentioning a way that is different to your tastes.  Never understand why people hate 2 catchers on a team and never will.  You don't have to play this way if you don't want to.  But why you can't accept the fact that I'm not lying and have seen it work over and over again is beyond me.

Sorry mods.  Guess all these tomes will soon be deleted, heh.  Just honestly can't understand the hostility to playing in a way different than anyone else.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Sorry mods.  Guess all these tomes will soon be deleted, heh.  Just honestly can't understand the hostility to playing in a way different than anyone else.

 

There's absolutely no hostility from myself or any other poster over the fact that you play in a dynasty or deep leagues or whatever. That's cool for you. 

 

The issue is that you posted a facially blanket statement - "[a]lways good to carry two catchers.  Always," in a post where you made no direct or specific mention of format, made sure to mention "always" twice, and went on to talk about H2H and Roto generally. There is clearly a disconnect between what you think you write and what you actually write - we're just pointing it out, no hostility intended. 

 

I agree with your strategy in your league type, but disagreed with your blanket statement (which you have since recanted). Nothing really more to be argued on that matter since we seem to be in agreement overall. 

 

As to Ramos, I love the guy. Should get more playing time than the majority of catchers and is on solid offensive team. There is a huge gap between him and Sanchez, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as the #2 catcher in a mini-tier of his own. 

Edited by Rainyy
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Whether to use the two catcher strategy really depends on who you have. If you have a platoon catcher it is a necessity.

 

However, it's a nice luxury to be able to play the hot hand / better matchup if you have the roster space for two. I have Brian McCann and Wilson Ramos and plan on keeping both. 

Edited by Pablo989
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Starting to produce how I was hoping. Wonder if I'm ok cutting Lucroy in a 1 catcher league now. Looks like Ramos should soon be playing just about every day and be a big boost at the C spot ROS for many of us. 

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I can see the utility of carrying more than one catcher, but agree it's league specific.

 

I'm in a 14 team league, but it's with weekly lineups. Bench is only six players with 2 DL spots. I have Britton, E-Rod, Morton, and formally Ramos on that bench. Roster space is limited.

 

My plan was to hold Avila as insurance until I knew Ramos was healthy. But I ended up cutting Avila pretty much as soon as Ramos was activated. 

 

I would not use Avila in a utility spot because he wouldn't be playing throughout the week, and there is no option to rotate him in when Ramos is resting. In my league, the average player on waivers is better than your average 2nd catcher option. 

 

When you have a catcher like Ramos that doesn't platoon and plays most days, the advantage of keeping a second catcher in my format is reduced.

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7 hours ago, Jyeatbvg said:

Since his return, TB is:

 

5-2 with Ramos lineup

0-4 with Ramos not in lineup

 

 

PLAY THIS MAN

He needs to be played somewhere 1B, DH, Catcher everyday - he's one of their best cleanup hitters. The average will continue to rise

 

 His slugging is incredible since returning.  He owned Sale last night!

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I'm feeling more confident to cut Lucroy now. Both are getting days off but Ramos is doing something when he plays. Still figure Lucroy to heat up at some point and salvage some portion of the season, it's just hard holding/hoping while FAs available who could help me more. Glad I picked Ramos up even if he's getting more days off than we'd like, but if he keeps hitting and popping HRs here and there, think TB will find ways to get him in the lineup more often. 

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Just another catcher at this point...they will not play him more than 4 times a week

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This guy is the 5th ranked catcher over the past two weeks, and hasn't even played a full two weeks! At this point owners should just be happy they have him. Any DH time he gets is gravy.

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