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Byron Buxton 2017 Outlook


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11 hours ago, taobball said:

 

Oh no I absolutely believed that the twins have had a major part in Buxton's struggles, but that doens't really change what he is now to me. Maybe the change in swing does cause him to make more contact but we have literally no evidence that that is going to be the case. He did not make better contact at any point of 2016, so it's just not something I just think is going to snap back and all of a sudden his SwStr and Contact%'s look more like Altuve than Chris Carter. I do think its an encouraging thing, but like I said, if you believe that Buxton is just uber talented and he'll figure it out, then I'm fine with that assessment, I just dont' think we have any empirical data that says Buxton isn't a .225 Hitter who Ks aroudn 32+% of the time. I'm not ruling out improvement, it's just with the litany of guys I think that are going later than Buxton that possess strong upside as well, I'm not really rushing to get Buxton, especially at his current ADP. I don't really see Buxton hitting for BA this year even if he turns a corner, I think it'll come with like others were saying something closer to Melvin Upton for at least a year and to me that's upside I can get from different places without needing to pay the brand name for Buxton. I just don't personally see him hitting above .260 this year at an absolute best case scenario. Not that it can't happen, but I just can't do it personally. 

 

I think he's a .235 hitter this season. But with 20/30 potential. Which would make for a very nice OF in my head to head league.

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23 minutes ago, motown magic said:

So basically J. Dyson on steroids ?

So far 2-9  .222 ba  with 1 sb

 

2:2 K:BB, also important to note.  And Dyson is a completely different player though, who has good contact ability and great control of the strike-zone.

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I said it before. I've owned and dropped or traded Buxton twice. I've endoured my punishment. I'm done with the two week tease to be followed by the four week smackdown. Somebody else can have my turn. That ship has sailed.

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1 hour ago, merlin401 said:

 

2:2 K:BB, also important to note.  And Dyson is a completely different player though, who has good contact ability and great control of the strike-zone.

 

18% K-Rate and an 18% BB-rate... giddy up!

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I know we're being facetious here but I am watching Buxton but not for Ks just raw swings and misses. I don't even really care if they end in strike outs or not, if I saw him foul off 5 pitches on every 2-2 count before K'n, that would give me a ton of confidence even if he got a massive K% this spring. 

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I don't have time to do the study, but I'd be really curious how many top prospects (say top-10), who never had contact issues or K-rate problems in AA or AAA (say sub-20% K-rate with a 9+% BB-rate) just couldn't make enough contact in the bigs to sustain a career.

 

Most prospects either show issues coming up, or they figure it out. 

 

I'm just shocked by some of the pessimism about his ability to make changes and unleash the tools when overall, we're talking 2/3s of a season, and in reality, we're talking 130ish ABs where they finally just let him play.

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23 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

I don't have time to do the study, but I'd be really curious how many top prospects (say top-10), who never had contact issues or K-rate problems in AA or AAA (say sub-20% K-rate with a 9+% BB-rate) just couldn't make enough contact in the bigs to sustain a career.

 

Most prospects either show issues coming up, or they figure it out. 

 

I'm just shocked by some of the pessimism about his ability to make changes and unleash the tools when overall, we're talking 2/3s of a season, and in reality, we're talking 130ish ABs where they finally just let him play.

 

To be fair he never had a GREAT K%, and I think the fact that he struggled so much on his demotion has some people worried as well. 

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1 minute ago, taobball said:

 

To be fair he never had a GREAT K%, and I think the fact that he struggled so much on his demotion has some people worried as well. 

 

I think your comment was rather off the cuff, but a couple former top-10 prospects come to mind...

 

K-Rate:

Kris Bryant in 594PAs at AA-AAA as a 22YO: 27% K-Rate and 14.5% BB-Rate

     --- btw, Bryant's K-rate as a rookie at age 23 was 30.6% (He won ROY), and at 24 he won an MVP with a 25.5% K-Rate

 

Joc Pederson in 519 PAs at AA as a 21YO: 22.0% K-Rate and 13.5% BB-Rate

Joc Pederson in 553 PAs at AAA as a 22YO: 26.9% K-Rate and 18.1% BB-Rate

 

Byron Buxton in 268 PAs in AA as a 21YO: 19.0% K-Rate and 9.7% BB-Rate

Byron Buxton in 59 PAs in AAA as a 21YO: 20.3% K-Rate and 6.8% BB-Rate

 

In my opinion, you're barking up the wrong tree with the K-Rate hatred when it comes to Buxton pre-Minnesota messing with him up one side and down the other.  Joc Pederson, a guy you've endorsed and said you'd prefer, struck out substantially more.  Yes he walked more, but Pederson also had nearly 3X the plate appearances at those levels as Buxton did.  My suspicion (which isn't that outlandish) is had Buxton been left in AA longer than 268 PAs and in AAA longer than 13 games prior to being jumped to the majors where they began tweaking his swing, approach, and expected outcome (seriously - hit a grounder to 2B... come on), that he too would've posted improved K-rates and BB-rates compared to the sample we have to work with. 

 

And you know what else, the Dodgers just LET HIM PLAY when Pederson arrived in the bigs, just like the Cubs let Bryant play.  And Pederson, like Bryant, K'd -- a LOT.  His first full year in 2015 at the age of 23, Joc posted a K-rate of 29% over a FULL SEASON of ABs (585 PAs) -- he went to the All-Star game.  Then in 2016, he cut that ALL the way to 27.3% over a second full season of ABs (476 PAs).

 

Here's the thing though -- Bryant had a K-Rate in AA and AAA across a full season of ABs of 27%... and his rookie year K-rate was 30.6%.  Pederson had a AAA K-rate of 26.9% which then translated to an MLB rookie year K-rate of 29%.  So both of those guys saw approximately a 3% increase in their K-rates from AA/AAA to the bigs.  Why then should we expect Buxton's AA/AAA K-rate of 19.3% to suddenly explode to over 30?

 

Buxton's minor league profile never suggested the K-rate issues of Pederson, especially considering age relative to level.  Pederson walked more, sure... maybe that's enough for some to excuse his K-rate, but I just don't get how an ~3% bump in K-rate for Pederson and Bryant (dudes with far higher K-rates in the minors) portends a 10% bump in Buxton's K-rate. 

 

And as to struggling so much after his demotion... I've covered everything they did to his swing in exhausting detail earlier... to me they stalled his development from the point of his call-up in 2015 till last August when he finally just said, "F this, I'm going back to what works."  In September his K-rate was high(33.6%) -- I have faith that will improve, because it's never been a problem before when he's just been allowed to play.

 

Buxton will be 23 on Opening Day.  If he shows no improvement (which I believe he can and will) and just duplicates his September K-rate of 33.6%, he's in the neighborhood of Bryant and Pederson as rookies (after substantially more time in AA/AAA to hone their craft -- time Buxton didn't get).  Their teams just let them play.  Will the Twins FINALLY just let Buxton do the same?

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41 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

Buxton will be 23 on Opening Day.  If he shows no improvement (which I believe he can and will) and just duplicates his September K-rate of 33.6%, he's in the neighborhood of Bryant and Pederson as rookies (after substantially more time in AA/AAA to hone their craft -- time Buxton didn't get).  Their teams just let them play.  Will the Twins FINALLY just let Buxton do the same?

 

I don't disagree with a lot of the ability, potentail, and can do, I'm just remarking that when he got sent back to AAA and was a mess again it definitely didn't help the perception. 


And I mean look, just because other people are throwing it out there, Melvin upton K'd 19% of the time in AAA too. I really think that's a good comp for what I'd expect the upside to be for a few years time, from 2009-2012 BJ had an average between .237-.246, had HRs of 11, 18, 23, and 28, and was a really good base stealer. That's kinda what I'd imagine a buxton breakout to look like personally at this point, something like BJs 2009 but a bit less optimistic that he hits 42 bags. You know, I mean I'm the wrong guy to talk to about Bryant. You can call it proper management or being a college bat or whatever youw ant but from the giddyup I've always been HIGHLY impressed with Bryant's ability to make any adjustment necessary. That's why I've never really considerd his Ks a big deal, and why I didn't cnosider them a big deal going into last season. I think he's on another planet then most hiters when it comes to having a high IQ and making necessary adjustments. I don't give Buxton that leeway. 

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1 hour ago, taobball said:

 

I don't disagree with a lot of the ability, potentail, and can do, I'm just remarking that when he got sent back to AAA and was a mess again it definitely didn't help the perception. 


And I mean look, just because other people are throwing it out there, Melvin upton K'd 19% of the time in AAA too. I really think that's a good comp for what I'd expect the upside to be for a few years time, from 2009-2012 BJ had an average between .237-.246, had HRs of 11, 18, 23, and 28, and was a really good base stealer. That's kinda what I'd imagine a buxton breakout to look like personally at this point, something like BJs 2009 but a bit less optimistic that he hits 42 bags. You know, I mean I'm the wrong guy to talk to about Bryant. You can call it proper management or being a college bat or whatever youw ant but from the giddyup I've always been HIGHLY impressed with Bryant's ability to make any adjustment necessary. That's why I've never really considerd his Ks a big deal, and why I didn't cnosider them a big deal going into last season. I think he's on another planet then most hiters when it comes to having a high IQ and making necessary adjustments. I don't give Buxton that leeway.

 

That's my whole, entire point in a nutshell. He should be given some leeway IMO. There are absolutely extenuating circumstances with his first 460ish PAs in the bigs. What about being a top-2 prospect across three publications for numerous seasons suggests he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt?  If Buxton had come up and done things his own way and struggled this badly, then I'd be getting skeptical. I'd still think he could maybe figure things out because of his youth, but I'd be skeptical. 

 

But we know he was messed with -- it's been extremely well documented.  I don't know how else to explain it - it's like being told the way you've done everything to get to the highest level of performance isn't the way you're going to do things anymore.

 

Think if a NBA prospect had dominated HS and was a major recruit, then dominated college for 3 years (and been highly, highly ranked by multiple prospect services), and then was highly drafted. Then, right before he's about to play in the NBA, his team's assistant coach decides his shot is broken and needs to be rebuilt , and they're going to expect him to shoot this way from his first game. They don't tell him to change in the offseason -- they basically pull him aside his first week in the league. Then we all ding him for poor shooting percentages after he struggles for 2/3 of a season. 

 

So then when when he finally does things his way -- the way that made him such and elite prospect, so highly touted, so well-regarded by scouts and prospect publications, he starts showing a lot of the signs everyone expected, with the normal growing pains that would go with that, only now those growing pains are portrayed as major issues because of the cloud cast by his first exposure when his coaches told him to do things completely differently. 

 

I mean -- that's the whole crux of the argument.  Buxton had a very productive September. Yeah there were flaws, but there were signs of the prodigious talent. His K-rate wasn't a problem in AA/AAA despite not having long to develop there. And despite seeing other elite prospects have their K-rates spike 3%, or even 5%, we're supposed to believe Buxton's k-rate of 13+% higher than anything he's ever done is indicative of his true talent. 

 

I'm just not sure I buy that. If anyone's deserving of leeway, given the path to this point, I'd think Buxton qualified for that benefit of the doubt. 

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1 hour ago, JFS179 said:

 

That's my whole, entire point in a nutshell. He should be given some leeway IMO. There are absolutely extenuating circumstances with his first 460ish PAs in the bigs. What about being a top-2 prospect across three publications for numerous seasons suggests he doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt?  If Buxton had come up and done things his own way and struggled this badly, then I'd be getting skeptical. I'd still think he could maybe figure things out because of his youth, but I'd be skeptical. 

 

But we know he was messed with -- it's been extremely well documented.  I don't know how else to explain it - it's like being told the way you've done everything to get to the highest level of performance isn't the way you're going to do things anymore.

 

Think if a NBA prospect had dominated HS and was a major recruit, then dominated college for 3 years (and been highly, highly ranked by multiple prospect services), and then was highly drafted. Then, right before he's about to play in the NBA, his team's assistant coach decides his shot is broken and needs to be rebuilt , and they're going to expect him to shoot this way from his first game. They don't tell him to change in the offseason -- they basically pull him aside his first week in the league. Then we all ding him for poor shooting percentages after he struggles for 2/3 of a season. 

 

So then when when he finally does things his way -- the way that made him such and elite prospect, so highly touted, so well-regarded by scouts and prospect publications, he starts showing a lot of the signs everyone expected, with the normal growing pains that would go with that, only now those growing pains are portrayed as major issues because of the cloud cast by his first exposure when his coaches told him to do things completely differently. 

 

I mean -- that's the whole crux of the argument.  Buxton had a very productive September. Yeah there were flaws, but there were signs of the prodigious talent. His K-rate wasn't a problem in AA/AAA despite not having long to develop there. And despite seeing other elite prospects have their K-rates spike 3%, or even 5%, we're supposed to believe Buxton's k-rate of 13+% higher than anything he's ever done is indicative of his true talent. 

 

I'm just not sure I buy that. If anyone's deserving of leeway, given the path to this point, I'd think Buxton qualified for that benefit of the doubt. 

 

But I'm not talking about a TALENT leeway. Bryant earned the leeway to me IN THE BIG LEAGUES. Prior to 2016 I made a huge post in Bryants thread about month to months adjustments and why I didn't mind was Bryant was doing because I thought he was sacrificing and yada yada I don't remember exactly but I remember seeing the month splits and seeing changes being made and going "oh he can do this." And that's not something that's talent based to me. Kris Bryant's dad is like a hiting instructor or something I believe... he just relaly had a huge knowledge base and really really was invested in the act (or even the art if you wanna get all fay about it) of hitting. But I don't give ANYONE that leeway. Bryant earned it. 

 

I'm giving Buxton leeway. I'm WATCHING his spring thinking he COULD get better, that's more than his results deserve. I'm not talking about talent I'm talking about just a knowledge of hitting. I'm talking about leeway I gave a dude AFTER he won rookie of the year. That's quite a bit different. 

 

To me Buxton is getting leeway from me. Comping him to Melvin Upton is leeway. Not completely and utterly dismissing him is leeway. But he's not getting Kris Bryant leeway. Not even close. Especially not the leeway he got after winning a rookie of the year. 

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So in a nutshell, Buxton is a medium risk, medium reward OF. He's a $20 scratch off at the gas station as opposed to a $1000 spin of the roulette wheel. Draft as an OF3 but make sure you have a capable OF4. 

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1 hour ago, taobball said:

 

But I'm not talking about a TALENT leeway. Bryant earned the leeway to me IN THE BIG LEAGUES. Prior to 2016 I made a huge post in Bryants thread about month to months adjustments and why I didn't mind was Bryant was doing because I thought he was sacrificing and yada yada I don't remember exactly but I remember seeing the month splits and seeing changes being made and going "oh he can do this." And that's not something that's talent based to me. Kris Bryant's dad is like a hiting instructor or something I believe... he just relaly had a huge knowledge base and really really was invested in the act (or even the art if you wanna get all fay about it) of hitting. But I don't give ANYONE that leeway. Bryant earned it. 

 

I'm giving Buxton leeway. I'm WATCHING his spring thinking he COULD get better, that's more than his results deserve. I'm not talking about talent I'm talking about just a knowledge of hitting. I'm talking about leeway I gave a dude AFTER he won rookie of the year. That's quite a bit different. 

 

To me Buxton is getting leeway from me. Comping him to Melvin Upton is leeway. Not completely and utterly dismissing him is leeway. But he's not getting Kris Bryant leeway. Not even close. Especially not the leeway he got after winning a rookie of the year. 

 

I guess we differ in what leeway means.  Dismissing an uber-prospect after 2/3s of a season of ABs is ludicrous to me, especially given the extenuating circumstances.  I know you want to see adjustments.  I believe we will, given they let him play in September and got positive results.  Hopefully they leave him alone.

 

Regardless... we've hashed it out enough.  I don't think his performance in MLB prior to September means jack sh*t, while you're looking at his full year data (and at the very least casting doubt on September's performance under the cloud of what happened prior to that).  We'll see what happens, I guess.

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10 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

I guess we differ in what leeway means.  Dismissing an uber-prospect after 2/3s of a season of ABs is ludicrous to me, especially given the extenuating circumstances.  I know you want to see adjustments.  I believe we will, given they let him play in September and got positive results.  Hopefully they leave him alone.

 

Regardless... we've hashed it out enough.  I don't think his performance in MLB prior to September means jack sh*t, while you're looking at his full year data (and at the very least casting doubt on September's performance under the cloud of what happened prior to that).  We'll see what happens, I guess.

 

I haven't dismissed literally anything. And his September performance wasn't good to me because he still didn't make contact. Period. Take everything else out if you really want, he still didn't make contact

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But you also came out in favor of Pederson and his 64AB against LHP pitching for the season. Come Sept Pederson wasn't even trusted enough to be  a FT center fielder in a playoff race and got 6 AB in October. That really doesn't say the manager bought into any improvement by Joc.


Buxton admittingly has a lot of room for improvement but I feel you have a slight bias against him. Can't prove it but just going by the tone of your posts.

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Just now, Low and Away said:

But you also came out in favor of Pederson and his 64AB against LHP pitching for the season. Come Sept Pederson wasn't even trusted enough to be  a FT center fielder in a playoff race and got 6 AB in October. That really doesn't say the manager bought into any improvement by Joc.


Buxton admittingly has a lot of room for improvement but I feel you have a slight bias against him. Can't prove it but just going by the tone of your posts.

 

Literally NIGHT and DAY. One argument HINGES on the idea that Joc made MORE contact. Buxton DID NOT MAKE BETTER CONTACT. They are literally the exact

opposite arguments. 

 

But k.

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50 minutes ago, JFS179 said:

 

I guess we differ in what leeway means.  Dismissing an uber-prospect after 2/3s of a season of ABs is ludicrous to me, especially given the extenuating circumstances.  I know you want to see adjustments.  I believe we will, given they let him play in September and got positive results.  Hopefully they leave him alone.

 

Regardless... we've hashed it out enough.  I don't think his performance in MLB prior to September means jack sh*t, while you're looking at his full year data (and at the very least casting doubt on September's performance under the cloud of what happened prior to that).  We'll see what happens, I guess.

Who is dismissing that? Prospecting is projecting a players CAREER... I think most of this debate has been more towards re-draft valuation/near future..

 

You keep saying the toolsy guys grow by leaps and bounds..How about some tangible examples of this that are comparable to Buxton? The first one that comes of mind for recent past was Carlos Gomez...but Gomez ALWAYS had 75-77 Contact rates and his breakout year he did only hit .260.. He didn't flip a switch and become a .280 hitter from nothing. It was still a building up and bridge year.  You seem to keep taking that being a good Melvin Upton for 2017 alone(not career) is somehow bad/insulting. When its actually pretty good thing for fantasy (who was the Number 2 ranked prospect in Baseball himself with people dreaming of 5 tool stud FYI)

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-He certainly made better quality contact when he did make contact during the end of the year (Sept/Oct).

 

Before 9-1-16; 168 batted balls - average exit velocity = 88.4 mph exit velocity
After 9-1-16; 53 batted balls - average exit velocity = 91.9 mph exit velocity

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-top-prospect-who-technically-isnt/

 

-Additionally, posted a 8.8% BB% (Sept/Oct). Nothing to write home about, but shows a willingness to work the count compared to his 4.9% BB% during the first half of the year. Looks quite obvious that the Twins tried to turn him into a slap hitter in approach and per the visual results below.

 

-Visually speaking, homers off two turd pitchers. The toe tap homer was his first and only major league homer last year on 6-13-16 before his September HR outburst:

 

Toe tap (6-13-16):

http://m.mlb.com/video/v811220983/minlaa-buxton-goes-deep-for-first-time-this-season/?query=Byron+Buxton

 

Leg kick (after 9-1-16):

http://m.mlb.com/video/v1131619683/cwsmin-buxton-blasts-upper-deck-tworun-homer/?query=Byron+Buxton

 

-He did use the leg kick at times during his struggles during the first half and would abandon it when he had 2-strikes, but the whole leg kick thing seemed to come and go when reviewing his video (maybe a Twins fan can tell us more?). It could of been as simple as him getting more reps verse MLB and advanced pitching. Time will tell. The fact that he flashed power for the first time in is career is certainly encouraging and interesting. He has flashed the hit tool in the past. Certainly a fascinating prospect to project because of his range of outcomes.

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3 minutes ago, Light Tower Power said:

-He certainly made better quality contact when he did make contact during the end of the year (Sept/Oct).

 

Before 9-1-16; 168 batted balls - average exit velocity = 88.4 mph exit velocity
After 9-1-16; 53 batted balls - average exit velocity = 91.9 mph exit velocity

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-top-prospect-who-technically-isnt/

 

-Additionally, posted a 8.8% BB% (Sept/Oct). Nothing to write home about, but shows a willingness to work the count compared to his 4.9% BB% during the first half of the year. Looks quite obvious that the Twins tried to turn him into a slap hitter in approach and per the visual results below.

 

-Visually speaking, homers off two turd pitchers. The toe tap homer was his first and only major league homer last year on 6-13-16 before his September HR outburst:

 

Toe tap (6-13-16):

http://m.mlb.com/video/v811220983/minlaa-buxton-goes-deep-for-first-time-this-season/?query=Byron+Buxton

 

Leg kick (after 9-1-16):

http://m.mlb.com/video/v1131619683/cwsmin-buxton-blasts-upper-deck-tworun-homer/?query=Byron+Buxton

 

-He did use the leg kick at times during his struggles during the first half and would abandon it when he had 2-strikes, but the whole leg kick thing seemed to come and go when reviewing his video (maybe a Twins fan can tell us more?). It could of been as simple as him getting more reps verse MLB and advanced pitching. Time will tell. The fact that he flashed power for the first time in is career is certainly encouraging and interesting. He has flashed the hit tool in the past. Certainly a fascinating prospect to project because of his range of outcomes.

 

Yes he did more damage with the contact he made, I agree to that. But he still swung and missed at the same rate as he had throughout his career. 

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19 hours ago, taobball said:

I know we're being facetious here but I am watching Buxton but not for Ks just raw swings and misses. I don't even really care if they end in strike outs or not, if I saw him foul off 5 pitches on every 2-2 count before K'n, that would give me a ton of confidence even if he got a massive K% this spring. 

 

I know this isn't his thread but i watched many of Trevor Story's ABs last year and that dude fouls off so many pitches. I can remember at least 4 10+ pitch ABs. Gives me confidence in him improving as well. Hopefully Buxton can do the same. 

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9 hours ago, taobball said:

 

I haven't dismissed literally anything. And his September performance wasn't good to me because he still didn't make contact. Period. Take everything else out if you really want, he still didn't make contact

 

Neither did Pederson or Bryant, but no one cared because the other results were positive. If you had no other view of Buxton but September, he'd probably be going around Bregman or sooner. Instead, we're doubting the veracity of September's performance because of what happened previously when Minnesota wrecked him. 

 

The lack of contact wasn't a major deal for Pederson or Bryant, two other uber prospects. Yet somehow it's the kiss of death for Buxton. 

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8 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

Who is dismissing that? Prospecting is projecting a players CAREER... I think most of this debate has been more towards re-draft valuation/near future..

 

You keep saying the toolsy guys grow by leaps and bounds..How about some tangible examples of this that are comparable to Buxton? The first one that comes of mind for recent past was Carlos Gomez...but Gomez ALWAYS had 75-77 Contact rates and his breakout year he did only hit .260.. He didn't flip a switch and become a .280 hitter from nothing. It was still a building up and bridge year.  You seem to keep taking that being a good Melvin Upton for 2017 alone(not career) is somehow bad/insulting. When its actually pretty good thing for fantasy (who was the Number 2 ranked prospect in Baseball himself with people dreaming of 5 tool stud FYI)

Springer went from 33% to 24% from from year 1 in 300+ PAs. 9% Contact rate jump and 40 Point BA jump... However he came with much better raw power than Buxton and these changes in Y2 muffed that power(lowerd ISO, FB% less HRs in more PAs). It still took until Year 3 until his improved contact came back with his normal power projection...  So my point stands that its a process that doesn't come all together in one year usually. No matter how toolys

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Just now, JFS179 said:

 

Neither did Pederson or Bryant, but no one cared because the other results were positive. 

 

Yet somehow it's the kiss of death for Buxton. 

 

9 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

Who is dismissing that? Prospecting is projecting a players CAREER... I think most of this debate has been more towards re-draft valuation/near future..

 

You keep saying the toolsy guys grow by leaps and bounds..How about some tangible examples of this that are comparable to Buxton? The first one that comes of mind for recent past was Carlos Gomez...but Gomez ALWAYS had 75-77 Contact rates and his breakout year he did only hit .260.. He didn't flip a switch and become a .280 hitter from nothing. It was still a building up and bridge year.  You seem to keep taking that being a good Melvin Upton for 2017 alone(not career) is somehow bad/insulting. When its actually pretty good thing for fantasy (who was the Number 2 ranked prospect in Baseball himself with people dreaming of 5 tool stud FYI)

 

No I agree that's a solid step for Buxton. I believe there's a lot more beyond that though.

 

Maybe I'm reacting to the tone of the posts from others. It just feels like people are ready to kick Buxton to the curb, and that even a comp to Upton is insulting because of looking at what Upton ultimately became. 

 

Upton was a damn good fantasy player early on. 

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