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2 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

See that on the stat sheets? If you watched the games was Henry getting hit in the backfield for negative yards or the defense was keying in on him on run plays when he is in?

 

I dont understand how Henrys elusiveness rate can be so high when he runs for so many negative plays.

 

Murray was getting swallowed up behind the line all season long too.

he also had some plays where he tried to do too much and would lose like 8 yards 

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Since I have joined this forum this is the greatest post I have seen and it's not even close.

YOU STARTED ALEX COLLINS?!?!?! HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAA

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Real men are confident enough to wear Uggs.  Both DHC and I have exchanged dozens of PMs about Ugg boots, when the best sales are, and if it's worth paying more for a premium brand like ALC.

 

Back to the topic at hand, Henry was clearly a fantastic pickup for anyone in a keeper/dynasty format, and I know we all wish to thank DHC for being so right this season, for 183 pages and counting.  Looking forward to starting Henry week in and week out next year.

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32 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Murray had some plays where he just fell down behind the line of scrimmage.

 

It happens, always room for improvement. As the blocking improves so will the runs.

As has Henry. In fact, for his size he goes down insanely easy when not up to speed. Big backs tend to lack balance and quickness and Henry is no exception. 

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33 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Murray had some plays where he just fell down behind the line of scrimmage.

 

It happens, always room for improvement. As the blocking improves so will the runs.

but i thought henry was so much better then murray ?

why are you comparing the 2 ?

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44 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

As has Henry. In fact, for his size he goes down insanely easy when not up to speed. Big backs tend to lack balance and quickness and Henry is no exception. 

 

That is an opinion. 

 

I have seen no evidence of that.

 

In fact Henrys balance and quickness are elite for his size.

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21 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

That is an opinion. 

 

I have seen no evidence of that.

 

In fact Henrys balance and quickness are elite for his size.

Your right it is elite for his size.  But not elite for the position he plays, RB.

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22 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

That is an opinion. 

 

I have seen no evidence of that.

 

In fact Henrys balance and quickness are elite for his size.

Almost every single scouting report I have read said he lacks quickness. Not sure if it was in this years thread or last years I posted a list 10 pages long pointing out all the scouts that said he lacks the things I mention. Here is just one former NFL scout for the Eagles to refresh your mind

 

"Obviously he's had a massive season," Middlekauff said. "He's been an absolute workhorse. But as a pro prospect, I don't think he's an elite guy."

 

"Some of the foot quickness and short area explosion that would make him an elite prospect is lacking," Middlekauff said. "Alabama's offensive line relative to the team's that they're playing is so dominant. Most of the time in the NFL, you're not going to have to huge holes and huge creases, so I think people get nervous what he's going to be able to do at the next level when the hole's not all the way there. Just being able to cut back. Just being able to cut like three holes back. That's where maybe his lack of elite foot quickness comes into play. ..."

 

Pretty much sums up what I have seen from him watching and analyzing his game. I know you haven't seen evidence of that as i'm sure Henry can go 25 carries for 0 yards and he'd still be a stud. He can have a long and impactful NFL career based on his combination of size and top end speed but I just do not view him as an elite prospect for all the reasons i listed before. "Generational" is just beyond ridiculous. 

 

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48 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Your right it is elite for his size.  But not elite for the position he plays, RB.

 

Emmith smith ran a 4.8 40 at his college pro day. Not elite for the position he played, didnt stop himnfeom being the GOAT.

 

Only used that as a reference point, Henry is no Smith. For RBs i look for the intangibles that can make them succesful. Their drive to want to be great, to get better, along with elite physical attributes.

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4 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Emmith smith ran a 4.8 40 at his college pro day. Not elite for the position he played, didnt stop himnfeom being the GOAT.

 

Only used that as a reference point, Henry is no Smith. For RBs i look for the intangibles that can make them succesful. Their drive to want to be great, to get better, along with elite physical attributes.

What does a 40 time have to do with balance and quickness?  I agree Henry has amazing top of line speed once he gets going.

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57 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Almost every single scouting report I have read said he lacks quickness. Not sure if it was in this years thread or last years I posted a list 10 pages long pointing out all the scouts that said he lacks the things I mention. Here is just one former NFL scout for the Eagles to refresh your mind

 

"Obviously he's had a massive season," Middlekauff said. "He's been an absolute workhorse. But as a pro prospect, I don't think he's an elite guy."

 

"Some of the foot quickness and short area explosion that would make him an elite prospect is lacking," Middlekauff said. "Alabama's offensive line relative to the team's that they're playing is so dominant. Most of the time in the NFL, you're not going to have to huge holes and huge creases, so I think people get nervous what he's going to be able to do at the next level when the hole's not all the way there. Just being able to cut back. Just being able to cut like three holes back. That's where maybe his lack of elite foot quickness comes into play. ..."

 

Pretty much sums up what I have seen from him watching and analyzing his game. I know you haven't seen evidence of that as i'm sure Henry can go 25 carries for 0 yards and he'd still be a stud. He can have a long and impactful NFL career based on his combination of size and top end speed but I just do not view him as an elite prospect for all the reasons i listed before. "Generational" is just beyond ridiculous. 

 

 

I dont remember calling him a generational talent. 

 

Im not familiar with Middlekauf and his resume but you it wasnt hard to pigein hole Derrick Henry into 1 categort in college because he was only used a certain way. Alabama had pass catching backs galore while he was there so Henry didnt have to use or refine that skill as much but he is proving more than capable of that at the NFL level.

 

I guess im not fully understanding what you are saying. You and Middlekauf arent really telling anybody anything they didnt know. Henry is a 6'4 250lbs monster, he is not gonna have tevin coleman quickness and i would not try and make him something he is not. Ive never disputes that Henry lacks some attributes that smaller and shiftier RB ls have but the reverse is also true, Henrys size and speed and strength combo is physically draining on a defense.

 

In a perfect world id like to see the Titans draft Sony Michel as a cop back for Henry, he would provide what Henry lacks and vice versa.

 

18-20 carries a game for Henry. 2-3 catches

 

5 carries and 5 targets a game for Michel

Edited by DerrickHenrysCleats
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6 minutes ago, youngrice said:

What does a 40 time have to do with balance and quickness?  I agree Henry has amazing top of line speed once he gets going.

 

What does a 40 time have to do with quickness? Testing explosiveness @ 10yd intervals.

 

Again though, that was just a reference to show Emmitt didnt necessarily have elite speed, an atttibute of most RBs but that didnt hamper his ability to excel at the position.

 

Henry is not gonna be the quickest, most explosive guy to the LOS but that will not determine if he will be an elite RB, his intangibles will.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Emmith smith ran a 4.8 40 at his college pro day. Not elite for the position he played, didnt stop himnfeom being the GOAT.

 

Okay, you're DQ'ed if you think Smith is the GOAT RB.

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4 hours ago, Flyers_28 said:

the one thing i have noticed with henry is that he has alot of carries that go for - yards and im not talking about a one yard loss either 

i wonder if there were any other running backs who lost more yards then him during the year 

 

I was curious, but I'm not going to hand check every back in the league.

To clarify, I have no point to add, this was purely my curiosity being sparked.

 

Henry had 26 of his 176 carries (14.7%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 77 negative yards.

Murray had 17 of his 185 carries (9.2%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 41 negative yards.

 

Le'Veon Bell, in my opinion, is the best back in the league, but also a player that seemed likely to have negative plays based on his insane patience behind the line, so I just quickly checked his numbers for context.

Bell had 27 of his 317 carries (8.5%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 64 negative yards.

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Just now, FFCollusion said:

 

I was curious, but I'm not going to hand check every back in the league.

To clarify, I have no point to add, this was purely my curiosity being sparked.

 

Henry had 26 of his 176 carries (14.7%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 77 negative yards.

Murray had 17 of his 185 carries (9.2%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 41 negative yards.

 

Le'Veon Bell, in my opinion, is the best back in the league, but also a player that seemed likely to have negative plays based on his insane patience behind the line, so I just quickly checked his numbers for context.

Bell had 27 of his 317 carries (8.5%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 64 negative yards.

 

Interesting. So Murray and Bell are head and shoulders ahead of Henry when it comes to producing positive yards.

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10 minutes ago, cnewbykkn said:

 

Interesting. So Murray and Bell are head and shoulders ahead of Henry when it comes to producing positive yards.

Wouldn't the fact that Murray and Bell were used as 3rd down pass catching backs have an impact on that stat? Passing down means fewer in the box typically, right?

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5 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Wouldn't the fact that Murray and Bell were used as 3rd down pass catching backs have an impact on that stat? Passing down means fewer in the box typically, right?

Passing down means you pass

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3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Wouldn't the fact that Murray and Bell were used as 3rd down pass catching backs have an impact on that stat? Passing down means fewer in the box typically, right?

 

I would think so.  It’s a fact that also explains why coaches prefer to start RBs who excel in all three aspects: catching, blocking and rushing.  It makes the offense more difficult to predict.

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3 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Wouldn't the fact that Murray and Bell were used as 3rd down pass catching backs have an impact on that stat? Passing down means fewer in the box typically, right?

 

If they ran the ball from that formation, then yes. If they passed, then no.

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16 minutes ago, FFCollusion said:

 

I was curious, but I'm not going to hand check every back in the league.

To clarify, I have no point to add, this was purely my curiosity being sparked.

 

Henry had 26 of his 176 carries (14.7%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 77 negative yards.

Murray had 17 of his 185 carries (9.2%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 41 negative yards.

 

Le'Veon Bell, in my opinion, is the best back in the league, but also a player that seemed likely to have negative plays based on his insane patience behind the line, so I just quickly checked his numbers for context.

Bell had 27 of his 317 carries (8.5%) go for negative yardage, for a total of 64 negative yards.

 

So starting RBs have a lower percentage of negative yardage plays than guys who come in on predictable running plays?

 

Good info.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

 

I would think so.  It’s a fact that also explains why coaches prefer to start RBs who excel in all three aspects: catching, blocking and rushing.  It makes the offense more difficult to predict.

 

I totally agree with this. Probably why Mularkey and Robiskie got fired.

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35 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

What does a 40 time have to do with quickness? Testing explosiveness @ 10yd intervals.

 

Again though, that was just a reference to show Emmitt didnt necessarily have elite speed, an atttibute of most RBs but that didnt hamper his ability to excel at the position.

 

Henry is not gonna be the quickest, most explosive guy to the LOS but that will not determine if he will be an elite RB, his intangibles will.

 

 

So the 40 test explosiveness in 10 yd intervals?? I missed where they charted the first 10yds of a 40.  The 40 is and has always been a barometer of a players straight line speed.  

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2 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

So starting RBs have a lower percentage of negative yardage plays than guys who come in on predictable running plays?

 

Good info.

This is hilariously misinformed.

 

What? Being a backup RB is 10x easier because you get to be at full strength while running on a worn out defense. Also, often times the plays you are in are like 3&20 where the defense slacks off or in garbage time when the defense doesn't care to stop the run. That's why you saw a guy like Randle average 6 YPC. Even looking at the top YPC there are more COP and backup backs than full blown starters. 

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6 minutes ago, youngrice said:

So the 40 test explosiveness in 10 yd intervals?? I missed where they charted the first 10yds of a 40.  The 40 is and has always been a barometer of a players straight line speed.  

Terribly overrated for RBs when the position is all about getting through small openings and moving around in tight spaces.

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