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Vladimir Guerrero Jr. - 3B TOR


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Were the braves really expected to compete this year? obv diff teams with diff roster makeup and division (red sox and yanks are good) but it seems like albies acuna, 2 young kids have turned them into a contender 

 

just food for thought about the jays not being able to compete, ya never know what impact a guy can have

 

 

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1 hour ago, kmoore1521 said:

Were the braves really expected to compete this year? obv diff teams with diff roster makeup and division (red sox and yanks are good) but it seems like albies acuna, 2 young kids have turned them into a contender 

 

just food for thought about the jays not being able to compete, ya never know what impact a guy can have

 

Braves were viewed as a legit wild card contender. A few people picked them.

 

The issue for Vlad Jr is that unless he can also pitch, I'm not sure he's enough to put them over the top.

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6 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

Braves were viewed as a legit wild card contender. A few people picked them.

 

The issue for Vlad Jr is that unless he can also pitch, I'm not sure he's enough to put them over the top.

 

Yea pitching i think is the big thing with the jays, once upon a time stroman looked like something as well as sanchez and now i guess JA Happ is their ace? haha

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1 hour ago, kmoore1521 said:

Were the braves really expected to compete this year? obv diff teams with diff roster makeup and division (red sox and yanks are good) but it seems like albies acuna, 2 young kids have turned them into a contender 

 

just food for thought about the jays not being able to compete, ya never know what impact a guy can have

 

 

Also look at what Aaron Judge has done for the Yankees.  Knock on him as a ML player was the scouts didn't think he'd have enough Bat speed to be successful In MLB Yankees call him up and he's the main reason for the teams ascension back to the top. Vlad Jr will generate a ton of Hype for a team that desperately needs it.  Blue Jays have a capable roster to compete with Yankees and Boston but they need all hands on deck.

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8 minutes ago, DMurphy77 said:

Also look at what Aaron Judge has done for the Yankees.  Knock on him as a ML player was the scouts didn't think he'd have enough Bat speed to be successful In MLB Yankees call him up and he's the main reason for the teams ascension back to the top. Vlad Jr will generate a ton of Hype for a team that desperately needs it.  Blue Jays have a capable roster to compete with Yankees and Boston but they need all hands on deck.

Not to side track this completely. Tor may have a solid offensive talent pool. But their bullpen and starters are way below avg.

 

The Jays are not competing this year. Soto being promoted is not going to change their plan for Vlad. If they based their decisions on other teams front offices then they have zero credibility as an organization. 

Edited by High&Inside
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2 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

Braves were viewed as a legit wild card contender. A few people picked them.

 

The issue for Vlad Jr is that unless he can also pitch, I'm not sure he's enough to put them over the top.


Depends what the goal is. If we're talking about winning a championship, probably not. If we're just talking about getting that 2nd wild card spot, he might be enough to get them over that hump if he can produce at the level we hope he can. Bottom line, the Jays pitching needs to be better. All 5 of their starters have an ERA above 4.00. That's not going to get the job done, regardless who their bats are.

I think the plan at the start of the season was to start him in AA, then move him to AAA at some point during the year. Then in 2019 he makes the jump, whether it's right away (if Donaldson if gone) or part way through the season. Shapiro and Atkins are also guys that like to veer away from their plans too much, so even if Vlad is putting up insane numbers in AA I don't think it's guaranteed he gets called up. They still want him to develop as a 3B, so bringing him up now would likely take away from his 3B reps.

If I were to guess, I'd say he gets the call up to AAA shortly and stays there for the rest of the season (aside from maybe a few big league reps in September). If he does get the big league call up before then, it would be because they either traded Donaldson, or because they think they have a shot at winning this season (pitching improves, Donaldson and others start hitting better, and they put themselves in a wild card spot in the standings). Of course, this is also assumes Vlad keepings on producing.

Now, do I think this is the right thing to do? Absolutely not. I'm a believer if the guy is this ready with his bat, bring him up now. He might not be there defensively quite yet, but who says he can't learn in the big leagues alongside big league players and coaches that could teach him a thing or two? Even if he's a bad defender, the bat makes him worth having on the roster. So you could probably play Vlad at 3B 4/5 days so he can continue to improve, then play Donaldson the other 1/5 days (DH on off days). You also have the option of trying Donaldson at 2B (though not sure how well that would work). Either way, you could set up your lineup to meet the needs of the 19 yo sensational and worry less about the 32 yo with an expiring contract.

But I believe Shapiro in particular prefers the more traditional approach of making sure his elite players are good enough at all aspects of the game before bringing them up. So I'm just having a hard time seeing him bringing a 19 yo into the big leagues as an every day player. I really do hope I'm wrong though.

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They just had Atkins on local radio, they want his defense to improve even before they move him up to AAA, they don't want to bring him up just to hit and play DH. The host asked him where he would play when and if he comes up and he said 3b, but then backed that up by saying, "Right now we have an MVP all-star 3b playing there"So who knows, he basically said as long as Donaldson is here, Vlad won't be so i'm hoping for an injury or trade

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16 minutes ago, bigbossman said:

With the Angels in town it would be amazing to see Vlad take the field against Trout and Ohtani.....

I would love that - I'm going to the game tomorrow night and would definitely buy a Guerrerro Jr jersey if he made his debut.

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51 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

They just had Atkins on local radio, they want his defense to improve even before they move him up to AAA, they don't want to bring him up just to hit and play DH. The host asked him where he would play when and if he comes up and he said 3b, but then backed that up by saying, "Right now we have an MVP all-star 3b playing there"So who knows, he basically said as long as Donaldson is here, Vlad won't be so i'm hoping for an injury or trade

I mean we have to trade Donaldson we won’t resign him. Granted we should have done it before his value isn’t as high right now but he will be moved 

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18 minutes ago, CanadianSportsJunkie said:

I mean we have to trade Donaldson we won’t resign him. Granted we should have done it before his value isn’t as high right now but he will be moved 

I agree i doubt they keep him its just a matter of when they trade him, when they do that opens the door for  Vlad, i see it happening close to the deadline, St Louis really needs a 3b and they tried to get Donaldson in the off season, i would take O'neill for him and say good bye

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3 hours ago, azeri98 said:

They just had Atkins on local radio, they want his defense to improve even before they move him up to AAA, they don't want to bring him up just to hit and play DH. The host asked him where he would play when and if he comes up and he said 3b, but then backed that up by saying, "Right now we have an MVP all-star 3b playing there"So who knows, he basically said as long as Donaldson is here, Vlad won't be so i'm hoping for an injury or trade

 

That doesn't even make any sense. They leave his bat unchallenged in AA so he can improve his defense? That is a total load of hogwash that eliminates the credibility of his statement altogether. In fact, that statement (if accurate) makes me belief MORE that its a financial decision because it is so nonsensical otherwise. If he said that in room of baseball experts, he would be laughed out of the room.

 

Without any of the highend defensive metrics available from the minors, Vlad Jr. has a .940 fielding percentage (consistent with his 2017 numbers). That would rank him 13th amongst qualified 3B (tied with Candelario). Would have been about 17th in 2017 full season. Basically, Vlad's glove is average. Its not some liability.

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9 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

Oh and Devon Travis is not in the lineup for Buffalo, so it seems he's coming up as the corresponding move for Urena.


You're probably right, but this makes no sense to me. Wasn't the point in sending him down in the first place so he can find himself again and build his confidence? I don't follow the Bisons that closely, but based on the stats he's batting .210 (.234) right now in AAA. And although it looks like he's hit in 9 out of his last 10 games played, .210 still isn't good. It would be different if he was there for a rehab stint, but he was sent down because he couldn't hit. So why bring him up if he's still not hitting at an MLB level?

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20 minutes ago, oswald737 said:

 

That doesn't even make any sense. They leave his bat unchallenged in AA so he can improve his defense? That is a total load of hogwash that eliminates the credibility of his statement altogether. In fact, that statement (if accurate) makes me belief MORE that its a financial decision because it is so nonsensical otherwise. If he said that in room of baseball experts, he would be laughed out of the room.

 

Without any of the highend defensive metrics available from the minors, Vlad Jr. has a .940 fielding percentage (consistent with his 2017 numbers). That would rank him 13th amongst qualified 3B (tied with Candelario). Would have been about 17th in 2017 full season. Basically, Vlad's glove is average. Its not some liability.

 

At this point they might as well say he needs work putting pine tar on his bat before he can get moved up.  The little things are important to Toronto.

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2 minutes ago, Idoolittle said:


You're probably right, but this makes no sense to me. Wasn't the point in sending him down in the first place so he can find himself again and build his confidence? I don't follow the Bisons that closely, but based on the stats he's batting .210 (.234) right now in AAA. And although it looks like he's hit in 9 out of his last 10 games played, .210 still isn't good. It would be different if he was there for a rehab stint, but he was sent down because he couldn't hit. So why bring him up if he's still not hitting at an MLB level?

 

Don't ask me why the Blue Jays do what they do. It certainly doesn't make sense to me.

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7 hours ago, jahweedum said:

I

 Ignorant on this stuff, understand the basic idea - does it do them any good to wait until NEXT June?  

 

Yea theyd get another year of control but theres no shot it takes that long for him to be up, too good

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2 hours ago, kmoore1521 said:

 

Yea theyd get another year of control but theres no shot it takes that long for him to be up, too good

 

They actually don't even get an additional year, that was already established a few weeks into the season. It's basically about how much that final year is worth and getting an extra year of arb as opposed to league minimum or whatever.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

They actually don't even get an additional year, that was already established a few weeks into the season. It's basically about how much that final year is worth and getting an extra year of arb as opposed to league minimum or whatever.

 

 

 

Right. For knowledge, Kris Bryant was just awarded $10 million for his early arbitration year. Take normal inflation and we're probably talking about a 12 million difference for the Blue Jays waiting another 10-14 days to call up Vlad. Let's call that a million dollars a day at this point.

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This may be a stupid question, but had there ever been a precedent in the MLB for the players association to seek action against teams flagrantly manipulating the super 2 deadline/arbitration rules etc? Seems like it's just kind of accepted on all ends for better or worse, unlike in the NFL where the PA seem to a bit more bite. 

 

Not saying they should or anything. Just more curious if it had ever come up before. Holding back a guy batting .420 with an ops of 1.17 would seem like low hanging fruit if there had been so I'm assuming no. 

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