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2017 MLB Completed Trades


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11 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Really feels like a lot of people are looking at this trade as Eloy is Stanton and Quintana is a scrub. 

 

As a Cub fan it's really saddening to see Jimenez and Cease be dealt.  On the flipside, this organization is pushing all of their chips to the table and saying we are going for a repeat Championship.  After a century of losing, how as a Cub fan can you be upset about that?

 

The Cubs still have some really intriguing very young arms coming up through the ranks.  I also strongly believe they will be huge players for Otani when he is posted.

 

Lester

Quintana 

Hendricks

Otani

 

.. not a bad starting four.

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ZIPS ROS-

Quintana- 3.89 ERA

Montgomery- 3.92 ERA

Hendricks- 3.50 ERA

 

I don't think teams in real life will care about K-rate, FIP, etc. Just results. And likely ERA projection goes down moving to NL. Just saying, he's no CLEAR upgrade. 

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12 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Who?  When I first saw the trade I thought the Yankees were after Jesus Anguliar (sp?) is it and were going to throw in another warm body for same.  Please explain who Cooper is someone.  Not help for this year surely so does that mean they are more and more concerned about Greg Bird?

 

Cooper is a 26 year old posting some monster numbers at AAA, he could be up this weekend

 

I think hes hitting like .366 with 18 jacks

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9 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

ZIPS ROS-

Quintana- 3.89 ERA

Montgomery- 3.92 ERA

Hendricks- 3.50 ERA

 

I don't think teams in real life will care about K-rate, FIP, etc. Just results. And likely ERA projection goes down moving to NL. Just saying, he's no CLEAR upgrade. 

 

- 40 more IP projected 

 

- Streamer is a lot less favorable for Hendricks than Zips. I don't know too much about Hendricks to do a deep dive like someone else, but I have heard much of his success last year had to do with getting pitches called for strikes that he has never gotten before or after. 

 

- As you did mention, the NL does change that slightly more favorably for Quintana

 

- The Cubs need multiple pitchers to be good and someone will get hurt.  If Quintana pitches well but Hendricks or Montgomery pitches even better, that doesn't make this a bad deal.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Why? They're 2 of the better projection systems out there. Your word is better?

 

ANY of those "projection" sites are incredibly conservative.  I used them over the previous two years and found very little value in using them - I spoke about this in previous threads earlier this year.

 

Saying that - Quintana is a massive upgrade over Hendricks & Montgomery both from a durability perspective, the fact he's been a workhouse, young, cost controlled and his counting stats should improve dramatically as a result of moving from the AL to the NL.

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3 minutes ago, Golden Spikes said:

 

Cooper is a 26 year old posting some monster numbers at AAA, he could be up this weekend

 

I think hes hitting like .366 with 18 jacks

is he legit ? whats the scouting report on him ? 

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1 minute ago, mortl said:

is he legit ? whats the scouting report on him ? 

 

He hits in the best hitters park in the PCL. Numbers are very inflated as a result. 

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Just now, mortl said:

is he legit ? whats the scouting report on him ? 

Colorado Springs, so definitely some inflated, high altitude numbers. He had 9 total HRs last season, 8 the season before. And he's now 26. So this seems more like a cheap, filler flyer type. 

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Just now, absknicks said:

 

He hits in the best hitters park in the PCL. Numbers are very inflated as a result. 

 

Looking at his numbers previous to this year, it has to be the park.  Last year, he hit 4 HR in 301 AA at bats, then hit 5 in 127 at AAA.

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Cooper is depth then or an insurance policy on Bird at least?  Or will he play in the bigs?  In other words, are the Yankees still likely to make a trade for a major league 1B like Tommy Joseph, Bour, Yonder or Duda?

Also maybe some of Cooper's power is due to PCL but he is a year older too.  Prospects are still growing and filling out their body so his power may be increasing some too.  As well as improved mechanics etc etc.

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30 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

What does it appear to be then?  Honestly asking.  Do you think he's just bad now? I personally don't think a guy who has his track record suddenly just becomes a substantially worse pitcher at 28.  If he's injured, I'd imagine it would show up in physicals. Maybe he's tipping his pitches? I don't know.  I don't think he's close to Chris Sale, but I think he's going to be a good pitcher.

 

I also disagree with the packages being similar.  People are seeing Kopech as a minor disappointment this year as an excuse to make these packages look similar. Thats what happens with prospects, their value fluctates a lot.  At the time Moncada was the top (not arguably top 5 like Eloy) prospect along with Benetendi that was already in the high majors/majors. And Kopech has Thor potential. 

 

I think this trade in the end is fine for both teams, and I like what the Cubs did a lot based on their current team. 

 

 

 

4

 

I do think the trade is a win/win. If just 1 of Jiemenz/Cease pan out, it was a good deal, as they will be panning out in the CWS competitive window. Quintana just helps them be a 72 win team now instead of a 68 win team. 

But, about Quintana's FIP... It's a little deceiving, because his FIP suggests he has been unlucky this year, when in previous years, he had been lucky to outperform his FIP. 

FIP weights K's, and pretty generously. The higher a pitchers K rate, the lower his FIP, so a pitcher with all the same peripherals as another, but one with a higher K rate, the higher K rate will have the lower FIP. 

Quintana's FIP is at a career high since becoming a 30+ game starter. What's concerning is his K/9 is also higher (way higher). If his K rate was 7.8 (essentially the same as the last two years) his FIP would be .4 higher, so we'd be talking about a 4.40 FIP for a guy with a 4.49 ERA... 

For quintana's career his ERA and FIP are essentially the same. The walk rate is up, the K rate is up, the HR rate is up (but HR are up in general). 

I think it's safe to say the Cubs are getting a solid 3.50 ERA pitcher (by AL standards), in the NL, I'd say he's a perennial 3.2-3.3 ERA guy. All things aside (whether you think he's an "ace" or not) it's a really good get. Whether he's the #1 or #3 on the team, it's a guy who's going to probably win 17-18 games a season in that division on that team. This gives the cubs a controllable (cheaper) option when the rest of the rotation as surrounded with uncertainty. Is Lester beginning to decline, is Hendricks 2016 representative at all of what he'll give the team, or will he be closer to this years numbers, Arrieta (who cares, he's gone after this year), etc. I like the deal. Losing Jimenez and Cease is a big potential lost, but CWS absorbs all the risk by taking on two guys who aren't even in AA ball yet. 

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11 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Cooper is depth then or an insurance policy on Bird at least?  Or will he play in the bigs?  In other words, are the Yankees still likely to make a trade for a major league 1B like Tommy Joseph, Bour, Yonder or Duda?

Also maybe some of Cooper's power is due to PCL but he is a year older too.  Prospects are still growing and filling out their body so his power may be increasing some too.  As well as improved mechanics etc etc.

Just a hunch, but I think they made this trade early specifically to give him an audition at the MLB level and see if he does anything with it. If he does zilch in this short opportunity before the deadline they'll probably make a move for a bigger name.

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8 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

 

I do think the trade is a win/win. If just 1 of Jiemenz/Cease pan out, it was a good deal

 

Really depends on the definition of pan out. You really need one of the guys to be a Quintana level impact player for the majority of the 6 controlled years for it to be a good deal. If one of them is, I agree. 

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3 minutes ago, Dirtywater97 said:

Just a hunch, but I think they made this trade early specifically to give him an audition at the MLB level and see if he does anything with it. If he does zilch in this short opportunity before the deadline they'll probably make a move for a bigger name.

Very possible.  it is also possible that they have their sights set higher but if the cost ends up being prohibitive or they fail to acquire one of their targets Cooper could be a decent fallback option

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1 hour ago, KarlJ. said:

Very possible.  it is also possible that they have their sights set higher but if the cost ends up being prohibitive or they fail to acquire one of their targets Cooper could be a decent fallback option

True as well as an insurance policy on Greg Bird who may well have exploratory surgery soon to try and find out what is wrong with him.  Or Cooper could say be moved to Oakland as part of a package for example to maybe replace Yonder.  If this last possibility is out there this could just have been part one of a two trade deal for a 1B.

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Totally agree. 

Yeah no prospect is a guarantee but people were writing off Aaron Judge last season too.  Eloy has the possibility within him of a Sano or Judge type of super power hitter.  No how no way did the White Sox get screwed on this deal.  Add in Cease and they made out like bandits.  Especially since Quintana hasn't been all that this season.  They got rid of him at the right time. 

Theo panicked and outdid Dealin' Dave Dombrowski on emptying the cupboard on this one.  At least Dombrowski got Chris Sale back for his minor league assets.  Theo got back a middle of the rotation guy at best and again not doing so well this season so he may no longer be that.

White Sox are going to finally be THE Chicago team in a few years.  No more back burner to the Cubs.  Man what a farm system.  Wow!  Who in the White Sox front office is the genius behind their sell off?  I've never seen such hauls as he got back from Boston, Washington and now the Cubs.

Congrats to the Chicago White Sox.  Glad their fans finally are having something to look forward to.  It must irk to see all the national attention and touch-feely stuff always center on the Cubs.  Yes the Cubs earned it last few years but I just can't imagine how White Sox fans have felt down the years.  Even when the Cubs sucked they got more attention and love than the White Sox.

They now have 7 or 8 in the top 100, chances are less than half work out

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Just now, azeri98 said:

They now have 7 or 8 in the top 100, chances are less than half work out

Which means the White Sox score big time.  Not only top prospects but lots of them insuring they have a few that will be golden for them for years to come.  They just maximized their chances with this deal.

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Just now, The Big Bat Theory said:

Which means the White Sox score big time.  Not only top prospects but lots of them insuring they have a few that will be golden for them for years to come.  They just maximized their chances with this deal.

I agree, i didn't mean it as a bad thing

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Really nice deal for the White Sox in my opinion. I thought Quintana might have lost some value with his performance this season, but I think they would have netted a similar package preseason so I guess not.

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15 minutes ago, treat88 said:

Really nice deal for the White Sox in my opinion. I thought Quintana might have lost some value with his performance this season, but I think they would have netted a similar package preseason so I guess not.

Well he should of lost some value but Theo is all into his late Boston era mode of "feeding the beast" right now it would seem.

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2 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Really depends on the definition of pan out. You really need one of the guys to be a Quintana level impact player for the majority of the 6 controlled years for it to be a good deal. If one of them is, I agree. 

 

Not true at all. Any value quintana adds now is all for naught, because they wont be a playoff team for a few years. All cease or eloy have to do is be 1-2 WAR guys per season to make this a good value add for them, since they will be getting that when the wins may actually matter. Quintana has a lot of value, but not to a team who isnt contending. This is why guys like SDP weren't pursuing him.

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24 minutes ago, sngehl01 said:

 

Not true at all. Any value quintana adds now is all for naught, because they wont be a playoff team for a few years. All cease or eloy have to do is be 1-2 WAR guys per season to make this a good value add for them, since they will be getting that when the wins may actually matter. Quintana has a lot of value, but not to a team who isnt contending. This is why guys like SDP weren't pursuing him.

 

Thats true all good points. But you could also think of it as if they don't pan out beyond one guy turning into a 1-2 WAR guy, that they could have made a better deal with the Astros or someone.  Also he's 28, I don't think it's that crazy that White Sox could be good in 2 years and Quinatana could have been a force on that team. 

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