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Alvin Kamara 2017 Outlook


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2 hours ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

I wish fantasy had a substitution rule. Allowed to sub in only for a player ruled out for the game before halftime.

 

Its certainly not an awful rule. One of the things I hate most of fantasy football is a player going out mid game. Every week is so important in fantasy football, in basketball or baseball a player leaving a game early doesn’t nearly have the same impact (which is good)

 

That being said. It's going to be nearly impossible for sites to coordinate unlocking players before half. So you'd have to do this as a league rule with commissioner and altering point totals. 

 

You're also asking every player in your league to be watching every game and be on top of replacing players, otherwise the people who don't are disadvantaged. I'm not watching red zone every Sunday personally so I wouldn't want to do that.   

 

If it ever did become a rule in your league or standard, you're going to have even more players root for injuries. "My man has only rushed for 3 yards in 10 attempts, man I hope he gets  concussed so I can play X later ".

 

There's certainly skill in player evaluation in fantasy football, but there's also a ton of luck. Early game injuries are a part of the game, brutal, and not fun. I also don't see a fair fix unless your in a private league where everyone is glued to the TV every time they have a player playing.

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8 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Its certainly not an awful rule. One of the things I hate most of fantasy football is a player going out mid game. Every week is so important in fantasy football, in basketball or baseball a player leaving a game early doesn’t nearly have the same impact (which is good)

 

That being said. It's going to be nearly impossible for sites to coordinate unlocking players before half. So you'd have to do this as a league rule with commissioner and altering point totals. 

 

You're also asking every player in your league to be watching every game and be on top of replacing players, otherwise the people who don't are disadvantaged. I'm not watching red zone every Sunday personally so I wouldn't want to do that.   

 

If it ever did become a rule in your league or standard, you're going to have even more players root for injuries. "My man has only rushed for 3 yards in 10 attempts, man I hope he gets  concussed so I can play X later ".

 

There's certainly skill in player evaluation in fantasy football, but there's also a ton of luck. Early game injuries are a part of the game, brutal, and not fun. I also don't see a fair fix unless your in a private league where everyone is glued to the TV every time they have a player playing.

 

People dont already root for injuries? That wont change, wont matter to anyone if more people root for injuries.

 

I had kamara, my opponent has Bell, i wish i was above hoping Bell gets concussed but im not.

 

I dont mind some reward for those who watch the games vs those who set lineups and watch no football, im more committed than that.

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20 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Slippery slope letting owners substitute players eventually I can see you types asking about....

 

You mean the same types that thought decimal scoring, flex players,  ppr, etc were good ideas? Sometimes improving something requires thinking outside the box. Something your type isn’t capable of.

Edited by Lamont Sanford
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2 hours ago, Holben said:

 

 

So to sit there and tell people to suck it up because they lose a relatively key player like Alvin Kamara in the first quarter of their first sudden death match is kind of ridiculous considering he's been one of the top fantasy players through the last 5-6 weeks. Many players are likely in the playoffs largely because of Alvin Kamara and many players are likely one and done this week because of a first-drive concussion.

 

 

Well you should just sit there and suck it up because it’s fantasy football.

 

I understand many owners take this very seriously  and struggling to make the playoffs in a tough league can take an emotional toll sometimes. And then losing Kamara in the first drive of the first playoff game after 13 weeks of putting a lot of time into fantasy football sucks.

 

but guess what

 

thats fantasy football 

 

When you choose to do something that’s incredibly luck driven, you have a significant  chance of getting unlucky.

 

Id also point out that a bunch of Kamara owners are lucky to begin with. Some of you scouted him for your dynastys , watched him in college, looked at tape.. whatever. I don’t doubt that many people are good talent evaluators. Many others are just guys who picked him up because a column said so and they had the priority claim in the right week, barely beat someone in faab, was the first to the waiver wire because they were checking the phone at the right time... whatever.  You got lucky and then you got unlucky. That’s also fantasy football

 

Play competitively but also be realistic about what you’re playing.

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11 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

 

You mean the same types that thought decimal scoring, flex players,  ppr, etc were good ideas? Sometimes improving something requires thinking outside the box. Something your type isn’t capable of.

 

I don't think the options you mentioned can be correlated to a rule like substituting an early injured player. I'm all for new ideas that may better the game but I see very little upside in this one, the # of scenarios where this could go wrong severely outweigh the benefit. I'd rather just suck it up to 'bad luck' as a commish than deal with the drama of "I wasn't at home I didn't get a chance!" "he wasn't ruled out until halftime!" "his player had 0 points and got hurt on the last drive of the half why does he get a free pass?"  "my player got hurt on the opening kickoff in the 3rd, halp me?" 

 

 

Something like this might work in a completely different fantasy game, sort of like an enhanced DFS or something..? 

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10 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

Well you should just sit there and suck it up because it’s fantasy football.

 

I understand many owners take this very seriously  and struggling to make the playoffs in a tough league can take an emotional toll sometimes. And then losing Kamara in the first drive of the first playoff game after 13 weeks of putting a lot of time into fantasy football sucks.

 

but guess what

 

thats fantasy football 

 

When you choose to do something that’s incredibly luck driven, you have a significant  chance of getting unlucky.

 

Id also point out that a bunch of Kamara owners are lucky to begin with. Some of you scouted him for your dynastys , watched him in college, looked at tape.. whatever. I don’t doubt that many people are good talent evaluators. Many others are just guys who picked him up because a column said so and they had the priority claim in the right week, barely beat someone in faab, was the first to the waiver wire because they were checking the phone at the right time... whatever.  You got lucky and then you got unlucky. That’s also fantasy football

 

Play competitively but also be realistic about what you’re playing.

 

I’m a Kamara owner. I accept that what happened last night was bad luck and part of fantasy football. I understand nothing can be done to change it, and in the big picture of life it’s incredibly insignificant.  I hope that meets your definition of “sucking it up”.

 

Having said that, I think in-game injuries are a major flaw in fantasy football, and finding a way to reduce their imact on fantasy outcomes would improve the game of fantasy football. If everyone took the lazy “suck it up” and be content with the status quo attitude we’d all still be getting up to change the channel. 

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10 minutes ago, JSA2422 said:

 

I don't think the options you mentioned can be correlated to a rule like substituting an early injured player. I'm all for new ideas that may better the game but I see very little upside in this one, the # of scenarios where this could go wrong severely outweigh the benefit. I'd rather just suck it up to 'bad luck' as a commish than deal with the drama of "I wasn't at home I didn't get a chance!" "he wasn't ruled out until halftime!" "his player had 0 points and got hurt on the last drive of the half why does he get a free pass?"  "my player got hurt on the opening kickoff in the 3rd, halp me?" 

 

Maybe you don’t fully understand the suggestion. Everything would be automated and in place prior to kickoff, just as they are now. There should be no additional commish drama if implemented correctly. 

Edited by Lamont Sanford
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I always thought the substitute rule would be cool and a bit unique. I would say the only time you're allowed to substitute would be before the start of the 3rd quarter. That way there's no substituting in the 3rd or 4th quarter if a player gets injured. No one has to watch every game. Most people and fantasy players have phones and computers available, if not all. There's plenty of apps and sites that give you updates as players get injured and it's usually right away.  You can make adjustments to your lineup during half time or before.

 

It adds a little more to the "coaching" aspect (if there is any) to FF. Maybe you can bench underperforming players for another player playing and so on...but it would definitely be cool if you could substitute for injuries.

Edited by tpat30
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2 hours ago, Lamont Sanford said:

 

Sounds complex at first, but it probably wouldn’t be all that difficult for a professional to code & implement. Like you said, use the injury time stamp to trigger the player swap, and points begin accruing accordingly. 

 

It’s probably not something that coud be done in-league, it would require CBS/ESPN/YAHOO or whoever your league uses implementing a system like this.

 

I think it would get a lot more convoluted and difficult than you might think.  The idea overall to replace an injured player sounds appealing to me, but the logistics of timing stats around the exact time on the clock would be difficult.  I know there are sometimes stat corrections on ESPN, and that's just taking the whole game into account as one big lump.  The major sites would have to do stat corrections for every player basically second by second to cover all the scenarios - and I don't think those sites are going to micromanage things to that degree.

 

There are already best ball leagues, or leagues where you get your lowest points player for the week swapped out for the highest scoring bench player.  That is an option that's close to having an injury replacement.  Sure, your opponent might get bailed out for making a bad start/sit decision, but when your guy goes out in the 1st quarter at least you know you're covered.

 

Another more out of the box idea is just owning a full team's RB corps, or a full team's QB, etc.  I'm not sure how practical this would be or how large of a league you could field, but if you owned a full team's RBs then it doesn't matter who gets hurt, because as you said the team has a next man up.  Might be interesting to run a league like this where you just start 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 WR, and maybe a Flex.  Takes some of the fun and skill out of it, but adds some new elements too, and easy to track for scoring purposes.

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3 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

 

I’m a Kamara owner. I accept that what happened last night was bad luck and part of fantasy football. I understand nothing can be done to change it, and in the big picture of life it’s incredibly insignificant.  I hope that meets your definition of “sucking it up”.

 

Having said that, I think in-game injuries are a major flaw in fantasy football, and finding a way to reduce their imact on fantasy outcomes would improve the game of fantasy football. If everyone took the lazy “suck it up” and be content with the status quo attitude we’d all still be getting up to change the channel. 

 

Oh, you absolutely meet my definition of "Sucking it up". As someone who really likes fantasy sports, I legit feel for you. That sucks

 

I agree with you that in game injuries are awful in fantasy football. It's bull. It sucks. I hate it. I think the best remedy for this is just playing a best ball format. I also do agree having a 2 week playoff reduces this effect too.  If we're really talking about things just to reduce luck, why not just make your league points only over 17 weeks?  It's less luck!  People don't do that it because "it's not fun", which I totally get.

 

 

That being said, fantasy football will never allow in game injuries  substitutions as a standard setting (and probably way too difficult for them to bother to make it an option)  Fantasy Football is the most popular fantasy sport because any idiot can play it, like march madness. 1 game a week, set your lineup, and you're done. Unless you're playing in a league with everyone constantly watching every game they have players in (which counts Thurs/Mon), I think it's ridiculous to expect everyone to do that.  I do not support any rule that gives advantages to people just for having more time on their hands to be at the computer at the right time. Don't know how old you are, and this is not meant to be an insult in the slightest, but when you play in the same league for a while people's live change... families..jobs... etc. Your sister is getting married so you weren't able to take out Kamara for Barber and lose your week.... fun. 

 

It's tough enough to keep track of GTDs for some people in leagues, asking to monitor in game injuries or be at a disadvantage is ridiculous in my opinion.

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7 minutes ago, tpat30 said:

I always thought the substitute rule would be cool and a bit unique. I would say the only time you're allowed to substitute would be before the start of the 3rd quarter. That way there's no substituting in the 3rd or 4th quarter if a player gets injured. No one has to watch every game. Most people and fantasy players have phones and computers available, if not all. There's plenty of apps and sites that give you updates as players get injured and it's usually right away.  You can make adjustments to your lineup during half time or before.

 

It adds a little more to the "coaching" aspect (if there is any) to FF. Maybe you can bench underperforming players for another player playing and so on...but it would definitely be cool if you could substitute for injuries.

 

Substituting for an underperforming player should not be a part of the plan. Underperforning players is on the owner for playing him.

 

Injuries are a different story and all players would lock for good at the start of the 3rd quarter of their game.

 

If you could sub in for underperforning players then why not just add up the scores of your highest scoring starters and bench players and let that be the score.

 

Subbing at halftime for an injured and likely not to return player would be the only recourse if be willing to take.

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1 minute ago, oliminator123 said:

Solid argument. 

 

Unless your team has been blowing out other teams by 25 points on a weekly basis (and Kamara is merely the cherry on top), losing Kamara is a massive blow to anyone who built their team around him. Basically all other players have to exceed their projections by a decent margin or one other player has to go bananas akin to how Kamara has been performing while all others at least meet their projections.

 

Its a huge hole for any team to find itself in and it’s incredibly stupid to insinuate that the person’s team simply wasn’t good enough  if they aren’t able to weather the storm of losing the, what, RB1-2 overall? Take any other team’s best player out of the equation (without allowing them to replace their production with another player because injuries) and most all teams would lose unless they had a blowup week and their opponent stunk.

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32 minutes ago, Lamont Sanford said:

 

You mean the same types that thought decimal scoring, flex players,  ppr, etc were good ideas? Sometimes improving something requires thinking outside the box. Something your type isn’t capable of.

 

5 minutes ago, JSA2422 said:

 

I don't think the options you mentioned can be correlated to a rule like substituting an early injured player. I'm all for new ideas that may better the game but I see very little upside in this one, the # of scenarios where this could go wrong severely outweigh the benefit. I'd rather just suck it up to 'bad luck' as a commish than deal with the drama of "I wasn't at home I didn't get a chance!" "he wasn't ruled out until halftime!" "his player had 0 points and got hurt on the last drive of the half why does he get a free pass?"  "my player got hurt on the opening kickoff in the 3rd, halp me?" 

 

 

Something like this might work in a completely different fantasy game, sort of like an enhanced DFS or something..? 

 

This may be deserving of another thread (ideas) but I just thought of something that may help. What if you could 'purchase' insurance on a player prior to the game? This could take out the ad hoc element of having to watch the game live and you could pre-selection the substitution. 

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1 hour ago, chrismikayla said:

Slim pickings on our waiver wire if he is ruled out week 15 for my first playoff game. Maybe I'll pick up Davis from Seattle as insurance or Doug Martin. Who are you guys replacing him with if he's out week 15?

 

Maybe you'll pick up Davis? He's on your waiver wire, and there's possibly better options?? Some of these leagues man ...

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3 minutes ago, DerrickHenrysCleats said:

 

Substituting for an underperforming player should not be a part of the plan. Underperforning players is on the owner for playing him.

 

Injuries are a different story and all players would lock for good at the start of the 3rd quarter of their game.

 

If you could sub in for underperforning players then why not just add up the scores of your highest scoring starters and bench players and let that be the score.

 

Subbing at halftime for an injured and likely not to return player would be the only recourse if be willing to take.

 

what if your underperforming player gets hurt? are you now lucky to sub someone else in? :D

 

if I have 3 flex plays of equal caliber and the guy I picked has a 0 on the last series of the half ..I'll give him a pat on the butt and sub em out! 

 

I think if this is to exist the players (sub out and sub in) need to be selected before the first game. 

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Injury subs can be handled fairly simply.  Instead of just choosing starters, you set a full roster. 

QB

QB2

RB

RB

RB2

RB3

WR

WR

WR2

WR3

TE

TE2

Flex

RB/WR/TE then designated order to replace

If player is ruled out priot to certain time (half, 3rd, whatever) designated backup automatically activated.

And yes, you could have a RB that scores 10 in the first half then ruled out for the 2nd be replaced by a guy who only scores 7 for the game.  You'd still have to take the sub's score though, so in that example you'd be 3 points worse.  Don't think you can work to pick and choose if you take sub or not.  Either auto-sub across the board or no sub's at all (status quo).

It's doable

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7 minutes ago, SadFaceHappy said:

Injury subs can be handled fairly simply.  Instead of just choosing starters, you set a full roster. 

QB

QB2

RB

RB

RB2

RB3

WR

WR

WR2

WR3

TE

TE2

Flex

RB/WR/TE then designated order to replace

If player is ruled out priot to certain time (half, 3rd, whatever) designated backup automatically activated.

And yes, you could have a RB that scores 10 in the first half then ruled out for the 2nd be replaced by a guy who only scores 7 for the game.  You'd still have to take the sub's score though, so in that example you'd be 3 points worse.  Don't think you can work to pick and choose if you take sub or not.  Either auto-sub across the board or no sub's at all (status quo).

It's doable

 

I'm sure there could be an auto setting not to sub if the player scored less. I suppose your way is indeed doable. Maybe fantrax can incorporate it one year.  I really never expect yahoo or espn to implement something complicated like that. Thats a pretty big change to explain to a lot of casuals, it would need a ton of overall support which I don't see happening.

Edited by brockpapersizer
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Every year there's a few players who get swooped up out of nowhere and are beasts and are lucky. It could have been you. You would have very obviously picked up Kamara if you could and started him this week. It still sucks.   If you have a better team to weather it, that's awesome, but I still maintain that in a competitive league it's going to be very difficult to make up  his points with less players if you're playing another good team.

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5 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

 

Every year there's a few players who get swooped up out of nowhere and are beasts and are lucky. It could have been you. You would have very obviously picked up Kamara if you could and started him this week. It still sucks.   If you have a better team to weather it, that's awesome, but I still maintain that in a competitive league it's going to be very difficult to make up  his points with less players if you're playing another good team.

I agree. And the problem, and why I'm getting so much crap in this thread, is a lot of people have nothing to surround him with. 

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2 minutes ago, oliminator123 said:

I agree. And the problem, and why I'm getting so much crap in this thread, is a lot of people have nothing to surround him with. 

Nobody is saying they have nothin surrounding Kamara...whether you do or you don’t, it’s still very bad luck and horrendous timing, that’s literally all people are saying.

 

I have a solid team, and still confident I can pull out the W, Thomas was a good start. We shall see.

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