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Aaron Gordon 2017-2018 Season Outlook


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8 minutes ago, Joeklebba said:

 

We'll find out shortly, but I envision that as nearly worst case scenario. He definitely pulled up lame, which is scary, but he also was walking without a limp on the way to the locker room. Seems like if he really did some damage to his calf, putting weight on it would be pretty darn painful.

 

Good points about him being able to walk, if he tore his calf muscle he would have been down in pain and probably need help getting off the court. I just expect the worse so I'm not surprised.. with so many injuries this year it's making me numb. All I do is expect the worse and plan for the best.

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Just now, THE_MAGIC_MAN said:

 

Good points about him being able to walk, if he tore his calf muscle he would have been down in pain and probably need help getting off the court. I just expect the worse so I'm not surprised.. with so many injuries this year it's making me numb. All I do is expect the worse and plan for the best.

 

I feel you brother, I can't seem to catch a break with injuries. Gallo, Batum, Gordon, Whiteside, Gobert....Just a disaster. I will say I'm a bit concerned that they haven't said anything about his MRI yet, I feel like when its good news they normally let the info out quickly and vice versa when the news isn't so great.

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The fact that he is traveling on the road trip is almost certainly a good sign. I am going to assume it most likely a Grade 1 but they should have confirmed that since they have the results. It's pretty annoying to just get the update that it's a strain, which doesn't really tell us much of anything on how long he's out.

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I actually don't like Vucevic going down for Aaron Gordon's sake.

 

Watch the games, watch the highlights, a ton of the opportunities Gordon gets on the perimeter come as a result of Vucevic drawing double teams and kicking it out to him or passing it to him when AG cuts. You don't want a situation where it's Biyombo because now that means Gordon will have to get more of his scores driving to the basket with the ball in his hands, he's a versatile scorer - but he depends a lot on catch and shoot/cutting.

 

There'll be some big games, but efficiency wise it will be an issue and I think it will impact his 3 point shooting.

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8 hours ago, Lifschitz said:

I actually don't like Vucevic going down for Aaron Gordon's sake.

 

Watch the games, watch the highlights, a ton of the opportunities Gordon gets on the perimeter come as a result of Vucevic drawing double teams and kicking it out to him or passing it to him when AG cuts. You don't want a situation where it's Biyombo because now that means Gordon will have to get more of his scores driving to the basket with the ball in his hands, he's a versatile scorer - but he depends a lot on catch and shoot/cutting.

 

There'll be some big games, but efficiency wise it will be an issue and I think it will impact his 3 point shooting.

Thats exactly right, I dont think Vuch's injury hepls Gordon in any way and we will have to see if it hurts him. He is going to be fine imo. Some people will think that Vuch takes touches from Gordon but thats not the case. In the start of the season Gordon's problem was that Fournier was the main offensive choice then Vouch and then anyone else. Once Fournier;s efficiency cane back to earth (perhaps lower) they started playing with Gordon more. At some point, Gordon was their first choice in offence before he got hurt. So, Vuch was always the 2nd guy when Gordon and Fournier were healthy. Gordon's game is more complimented with Vuch on court. Bismack has 0 usage rate but he doesnt have the vision and passing skill that Vuch has. That means less open 3pt shots for Aaron and more grit and grind till Vuch is back. Ofc all these are hypothetical because we still dont know if Biyombo will get all or most of the Vuche's PT. They might go small with Speights who has been solid for the Magic so far and they wont have to change their offense playbook much since Speight's game is similar to Vuche's, at least  more similar than Biyombo's

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16 minutes ago, Joeklebba said:

If Vuc going down means Gordon plays more in the paint then I hardly consider that as a negative. A 6’9 athletic guy sitting on the wing jacking 3s seems like a waste of ability. 

 

I could not disagree with this statement more, in fact I think I disagree with this more than any statement made here dating back to when PuzzBetereson and I went back and forth on whether Barton is a legit talent or not.

 

Gordon's skill isn't as a post up player, it's as a mismatch tweener. When they switch on picks he can attack the smaller matchup in the post, when they switch him with a big he can take him outside and drive on him to the basket using his handles and quickness, when he's running down court he can pull up for a 3 and go shoot down quick to the corner and let Payton make a pass up court to him for a corner 3 or take the ball all the way himself coast to coast.

 

He also works excellent in tandem with Vucevic because Vuc has excellent vision and soft hands, so Gordon cuts baseline and gets a lot of open looks from Vuc and also as I stated above when Vuc gets doubled because of his great post ability then he can pass it out to Gordon for 3's. Gordon's been wavering between 40% - 50% all year on his 3 point shooting, and hits 2+ 3's, and he still has a very respectable FG% (between 48% - 50% all year). Getting him more in the post takes away from one of his best fantasy assets (3 point shooting), and his FG% won't climb as much as you think because he's not a player who's a great post-up threat, he has a decent baby hook and he can power his way in, but it doesn't work as well when you're trying to do it consistently against guys your size.. you're basically saying that we should take away from the strengths that have made him a breakout player just so he can go in the post more. 

 

The argument you're making reminds me of those Shaq and Barkley type rhetoric arguments 'BIG MEN SHOULD BE IN THE POST, STOP THIS NONSENSE ON THE PERIMETER!', except they conveniently look the other way when Dirk is draining pick and pop 3's on their way to a championship. It's an oldschool mentality, and Gordon's skill-set features much better as an all-around scorer, not a banger. 

Edited by Lifschitz
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Yeah, I’ve read your essays in other threads and I’m not as convinced of your genius as you are. 

 

Im not suggesting that Gordon operate exclusively out of the post but in the games I’ve seen him play, he just sat in the corner on offense and hardly moved. Now they’ll have to get him more involved in the offense and I’m of the opinion that he’s talented enough to step up into a bigger role. I also think it’s a bit nuts to pretend that Vuc is the worlds greatest facilitator but I guess time will tell.

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24 minutes ago, Joeklebba said:

Yeah, I’ve read your essays in other threads and I’m not as convinced of your genius as you are. 

 

Im not suggesting that Gordon operate exclusively out of the post but in the games I’ve seen him play, he just sat in the corner on offense and hardly moved. Now they’ll have to get him more involved in the offense and I’m of the opinion that he’s talented enough to step up into a bigger role. I also think it’s a bit nuts to pretend that Vuc is the worlds greatest facilitator but I guess time will tell.

 

Ad hominem, I never claimed to be a genius or that I was convinced I was one, so don't use that as a premise to discredit my "essay". The quality of the content is what matters, not the quantity.

 

Also a strawman and an exaggerated one, I've never made a claim or "pretended" Vucevic is "the world's greatest facilitator". 

Edited by Lifschitz
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just need to see what Gordon can do without Vuc in the picture. One thing for sure is that the cut-ins are surely going to drop since Biyombo is not even close with Vooch as a passer.

 

But his usage itself may have a spike so... hopefully he'll return this week, let's just hope that he steps up as 'the man'

Edited by jhsong916
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3 hours ago, Joeklebba said:

Yeah, I’ve read your essays in other threads and I’m not as convinced of your genius as you are. 

 

Im not suggesting that Gordon operate exclusively out of the post but in the games I’ve seen him play, he just sat in the corner on offense and hardly moved. Now they’ll have to get him more involved in the offense and I’m of the opinion that he’s talented enough to step up into a bigger role. I also think it’s a bit nuts to pretend that Vuc is the worlds greatest facilitator but I guess time will tell.

 

Yeah heaven bloody forbid you have a differing opinion. I kinda agree with you and think AG will be more than fine without vooch. I can see the argument where some players underperform (efficiency wise) without playing with certain players but as long as one of vooch or Fournier is playing I can't see a problem. Even without both I think the other improved stats would more than make up for drop in efficiency. 

Without Vooch last year in a 4 game stretch in march he shot better than 50% in every game bar 1.

Edited by Pirate
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It's cool to have a differing opinion, I said I disagree with it, nothing wrong with that either. My issue with his sentiments is when people try to pigeon hole players into a definition of what they should be, when they've already proven they're successful doing it elsewhere. 

 

It's not like he isn't playing closer to the basket - he can do it all that's why he's having a breakout year, and he's already a very formidable 3 point shooter, in fact, one of the best in the league this year.. so..felt like his post was nitpicking.

 

Finally, he isn't refuting any of the facts, he said I wish he'd stop chucking 3s, I rebutted that he's successful doing it, and he said I claim I'm a genius and that Gordon can take over games with vucevic out (another point I never refuted).

 

Its not whether Gordon can or can't take over games (he certainly can), it's the idea that people always assume if player B goes out, player A will excel, and some times they work better together than they do apart.

Edited by Lifschitz
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I hesitate to respond because this is a lame argument with someone who seems to be far more invested in it than I am, but I suppose that’s what message boards are all about.

 

If you look at his monthly splits, his 3 point shots have gone up every month while his 3 point % has plummetted:

 

October(5 games)- 4.4 3PT attempts at 59%

November(15 games)- 5.5 3PT attempts at 39.8%

December(6 games)-6.2 3 PT attempts at 29.7%

 

Additionally his points per game have also dropped every month:

October-21

November-17.7

December-17.3

 

This reeks of a guy that had some early success from 3, fell in love with the shot and consequently is settling for the 3 ball far more often than he should. Of

course that’s just an opinion and maybe Vogel is pushing him to shoot it, but it certainly matches up with my observation that the guy stands in the corner waiting to launch a 3 far more often than he should.

 

In terms of refuting facts, I fail to see where you stated a single fact. I don’t consider Vuc having “soft hands”to be a “fact” worth addressing. He averages 3.3 assists a game, that doesn’t scream great passer out of the post to me but I also have no problem conceding that numbers don’t always tell the story. 

 

I certainly appreciate that player A getting hurt doesn’t always translate to player B doing better, but in this case I’m optimistic that it will lead to Gordon being more involved in the offense. I think the numbers support my opinion that he’s settling for too many 3s and show that your bizarre insistence that I’m pigeon holing this guy because I have a different opinion than you is unfounded at best. Again though, time will tell and he needs to get healthy first anyhow.

 

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