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Gary Harris 2017-2018 Season Outlook


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If you drop harris for anyone of those guys You'll lose your league

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On 10/15/2017 at 4:16 AM, OxyBubbleMan said:

I watched some DownToBuck videos of him and Jokic earlier and man, mind meld is right between the two of them. Their two-man game is so slick it's like watching pinball.

 

I had him last season and he wasn't rated highly as a defender based on advanced metrics. He's about the same size as Bradley without the length? I feel like they have the same game as well.

In 2015 he defended the opposing team's best wing. Assume the same was true last year but I didn't watch many Nuggets games. He's a very good defender, nevermind the metrics.

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He's a good defender in terms if staying front of his man but he doesn't have the length I think that could bother their shot. Having Gallo and Jokic as your bigs doesn't help. Hopefully, Millsap does wonders for their defense teamwise.

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9 minutes ago, OxyBubbleMan said:

He's a good defender in terms if staying front of his man but he doesn't have the length I think that could bother their shot. Having Gallo and Jokic as your bigs doesn't help. Hopefully, Millsap does wonders for their defense teamwise.

Gallo is a Clipper dude. Chris Paul doesn't have the length and he's an elite defender

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42 minutes ago, OxyBubbleMan said:

What? I was referencing last season and responding to another poster. And Paul is strong and has godly reflexes. You're comparing Harris to an all-time defender at the PG spot?

No i am just saying you can be a very good defensive player despite the lacks in physical/athletic department. Marc Gasol is a fine example aswell

Edited by GmGodine
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I drafted this past weekend, and got Harris in the 5th on one team.....ended up guard heavy in the other draft (Curry, Paul and McCollum 1st 3 picks), so he wasn't viable.  I think he went around the 5th there too.  That FG% is what really sells him to me and what makes him stand out from most SGs....at least the ones you can get that late. 

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19 hours ago, Soafanforlife said:

I don't think it's a stretch to think he's a top 5 SG right now.

 

In order: Harden/Klay/Butler/DeMar/??

 

Wade is past his prime.

Beal/CJ/Booker are debatable, but are all defensive liabilities. I can see a rationale behind any of these 3 in that order over Harris, but factoring in 2 way play/efficiency/RPM/advanced metrics (you get the picture), it's not as close imo.

Middleton/Bradley/LaVine are all a tier below.

 

 

 

Lol Gary Harris better than Beal, CJ and Middleton?

 

Klay the 2nd best fantasy SG?

 

This has gone too god damn far.

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40 minutes ago, JStyles said:

 

Lol Gary Harris better than Beal, CJ and Middleton?

 

Klay the 2nd best fantasy SG?

 

This has gone too god damn far.

 

I assumed they are talking IRL...because otherwise its just a loco comparison for fantasy 

 

I'd put beal and CJ ahead IRL, but not by a long way and it could be a different story by seasons end. Middleton is right about Gary's level. Both have a lot of potential but haven't proven a lot yet.

 

In terms of IRL: Harden>Butler>KlayDeMar>CJ>Beal>Middleton≈Harris

In terms of Fantasy: Harden>Butler>CJBeal>Klay>Middleton>DeMar>Harris...but again could be very different at seasons end

Edited by Jake the snake
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2 minutes ago, Jake the snake said:

 

I assumed they are talking IRL...because otherwise its just a loco comparison for fantasy 

 

I'd put beal and CJ ahead IRL, but not by a long way and it could be a different story by seasons end. Middleton is right about Gary's level. Both have a lot of potential but haven't proven a lot yet.

 

In terms of Fantasy: Harden>Butler>CJBeal>Klay>Middleton>DeMar>Harris...but again could be very different at seasons end

 

Also if ranking for fantasy you can't really leave out the dual eligibility PG's and SF's like Curry, Kyrie, Bledsoe, Hayward, etc.

 

But now that's getting way too complicated ha

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11 hours ago, OxyBubbleMan said:

He's a good defender in terms if staying front of his man but he doesn't have the length I think that could bother their shot. Having Gallo and Jokic as your bigs doesn't help. Hopefully, Millsap does wonders for their defense teamwise.

What are you talking about? Jokic is one of the best defenders in the NBA.

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7 minutes ago, miasma16 said:

What are you talking about? Jokic is one of the best defenders in the NBA.

 

Is this sarcasm? I honestly couldn't tell lol. Just a quick search on Jokic's defense and you'll find lots of footage highlighting his weaknesses there. He may have the tools aside from being slow footed but his defensive awareness isn't up to par yet with his offensive talent. He fouls a lot and doesn't react quickly on rotations.

 

In order not to derail the thread. I'll just say I love the current Nuggets roster with Gazza and Jokic each having 2 rooms in my heart. Just look at my roster and you'll see.

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2 minutes ago, OxyBubbleMan said:

 

Is this sarcasm? I honestly couldn't tell lol. Just a quick search on Jokic's defense and you'll find lots of footage highlighting his weaknesses there. He may have the tools aside from being slow footed but his defensive awareness isn't up to par yet with his offensive talent. He fouls a lot and doesn't react quickly on rotations.

 

In order not to derail the thread. I'll just say I love the current Nuggets roster with Gazza and Jokic each having 2 rooms in my heart. Just look at my roster and you'll see.

Footage? I've watched games.

 

Jokic was one of the better defenders in the league last year. He took a step back (as Butler has) from being a pretty inarguable Top 10 guy, presumably because of the increased reliance on him offensively, but that didn't change his output. Lol @ defensive awareness. That's like the entire reason he's a good defender.

 

His fouls per 36 are 3.8. Draymond's and Gobert's are 3.2. That's not an issue at all.

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Ah, the usual eye test reply. Watching games and advance stats go hand in hand when evaluating players. Even some of the pages primarily made for the Nuggets point out his defensive deficiencies. I'll just leave this here and let you decide afterwards if you still think Jokic is a top 10 defender.

https://stats.nba.com/player/203999/defense-dash/?sort=D_FGM&dir=1

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10 minutes ago, miasma16 said:

Yeah, watching games matters. You should try it sometime. Maybe then you won't identify a player's strength as one of his weaknesses?

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/sort/DRPM

Jokic is a great player in fantasy and real life but his defense is pretty bad. When he played with Nurk on the Nugz it was obvious how much worse he was on D compared to Nurk..which is why for a decent amount of time Nurk was getting more burn than Jokic was.

 

I went to a Raps v. Nuggets game last season, when Jokic was on Valanciunas was doing work and then when Nurk came in JVal wouldn't do much of anything. It was reflected in the minutes played and stats of both Nurk and Jokic, Nurk had like 14 points and 15 rebs or something if I remember correctly and Jokic had a dud.

 

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Which is why they go hand in hand. If you're insinuating that I haven't watched Nuggets games, you're wrong about that. Who wouldn't watch them?

 

You're using DRPM? It isn't exactly reliable as an advanced metric. There are lot of variables that doesn't go into it. Plus, you're using the 2015-2016 table when he didn't exactly play that much during that season. Why didn't you use the 2016-2017 one when he played more minutes? I wonder. You wouldn't usually see analysts using it when discussing defense. You'll see them using fg% against on certain choice areas. If you can't see what others are seeing and getting fron Jokic's defense, I'll just agree to disagree with you.

 

Harris rocks. I wish I get to see him and Jokic grow more in sync with each other. :wub:

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1 minute ago, richg24 said:

Jokic is a great player in fantasy and real life but his defense is pretty bad. When he played with Nurk on the Nugz it was obvious how much worse he was on D compared to Nurk..which is why for a decent amount of time Nurk was getting more burn than Jokic was.

 

I went to a Raps v. Nuggets game last season, when Jokic was on Valanciunas was doing work and then when Nurk came in JVal wouldn't do much of anything. It was reflected in the minutes played and stats of both Nurk and Jokic, Nurk had like 14 points and 15 rebs or something if I remember correctly and Jokic had a dud.

 

Jokic is essentially a defensive role player. When he's tasked with doing a lot, he struggles, but when his team is holding it down on the perimeter and allows him to simply use his reach, be in the right place, and not make mistakes, there's few that can match what he brings. If you repeatedly let guys get to the rim, or his guards can't defend pick and rolls and he's forced to do too much on the perimeter, he's one of the worst bigs in the NBA. That's why, to bring it all back home, it's so great to have Gary Harris on the team because his length and athleticism can allow Jokic to do what he does best defensively. Unfortunately, Wilson Chander and their PGs suck on defense, but swapping out Gallinari for Millsap should help him a ton. He'll have plenty of games when he's attacked defensively and looks terrible, and plenty more where you don't even notice him because he's doing exactly what he's supposed to do.

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Just now, OxyBubbleMan said:

Plus, you're using the 2015-2016 table when he didn't exactly play that much during that season. Why didn't you use the 2016-2017 one when he played more minutes?

Do you just read what you want to read? I already said he was good in 2016-17 and better in 2015-16. I allowed you to see just how good he was. RPM is the best catch-all stat there is for defensive performance, considering you don't want to watch basketball. Certainly better than field goal attempts against, as you decided to use.

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1 minute ago, lbjames6 said:

Can we PLEASE keep this thread about Gary Harris? 

 

If you want to have a pissing match do it in PM's. 

I didn't expect someone to state such an objective falsehood, such as Jokic's defensive weakness being his IQ.

 

If you want to continue this discussion, take it to the Jokic thread.

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1 hour ago, miasma16 said:

What are you talking about? Jokic is one of the best defenders in the NBA.

 

Wtf did I just read???? One of the best defenders in the NBA??? :blink::blink::blink:

 

This is more confusing than the time you said Rondo is a great shooter.

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