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2017-2018 Off-season and Hot Stove Thread


2ndCitySox
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Why was the Ohtani thread suddenly locked here?  Please open it asap.  He just made a commitment to the Angels and he isn't a minor league prospect so his thread in the Minor League Forum should be the one locked now.  Waiting until an official signing after the deal was announced is silly.  This is one of the most major things this forum is about.  Discussing the latest big breaking news in MLB.

 

Rotoworld blurbthat belongs in Ohtani's thread sine this is no longer hot stove news er se but Ohtani news.

 

Quote

According to a statement from Shohei Ohtani's representatives, RHP/OF Shohei Ohtani will sign with the Angels.

 

Ohtani picks the Angels after a whirlwind week where he narrows his choice down to seven clubs, and Los Angeles ends up with the winning ticket. The Halos will hand over a $20 million dollar posting fee for the rights to negotiate his contract, and they'll be able to pay him upwards of $2.5 million dollars after making a deal to acquire cash from the Minnesota Twins on Wednesday. The 23-year-old pitcher/outfielder is baseball's first legitimate two-way prospect in some time, and he'll get a chance to play in the outfield, DH, and start for the Angels in 2018.

 

Hello, the Angels.  Not the Angels' farm system.  Let us discuss Ohtani here in his own thread. 

 

Please stop with the legalisms and over modding and use some basic common sense here.  Because until you do this Hot Stove league thread becomes the defacto Ohtani thread because 9 out of 10 people on this site never ever go to the Minor League thread.  Again, common sense.  Thank you in advance.

Edited by The Big Bat Theory
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@jfazz23

To carry over from the other thread, where did I proclaim Ohtani the best player in baseball? Trout definitely is I'm not sure how that's debated, but I said possibly the two best players in baseball on the same team. If Ohtani remotely lives up to the hype -an incredibly difficult and unlikely scenario but still possible - then yes, it could probably be argued he's the next best player behind Trout.

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1 minute ago, AnonymousRob said:

@jfazz23

To carry over from the other thread, where did I proclaim Ohtani the best player in baseball? Trout definitely is I'm not sure how that's debated, but I said possibly the two best players in baseball on the same team. If Ohtani remotely lives up to the hype -an incredibly difficult and unlikely scenario but still possible - then yes, it could probably be argued he's the next best player behind Trout.

so he leapfrogs kershaw, scherzer, sale, kluber as a pitcher?

 

or altuve, goldie, arenado etc as a hitter?

 

cmon dude

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Just now, jfazz23 said:

so he leapfrogs kershaw, scherzer, sale, kluber as a pitcher?

 

or altuve, goldie, arenado etc as a hitter?

 

cmon dude

No. But do Kluber, Kershaw, etc hit? 

Do Altuve, Goldschmidt, etc pitch? 

 

Each side is unlikely to be the best, but the sum of his parts could make him so. How do you not seem to understand that being a very real part of his appeal? 

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Just now, AnonymousRob said:

No. But do Kluber, Kershaw, etc hit? 

Do Altuve, Goldschmidt, etc pitch? 

 

Each side is unlikely to be the best, but the sum of his parts could make him so. How do you not seem to understand that being a very real part of his appeal? 

ill believe it when i see him hit major league pitching, and pitch to major league hitters on 4 days rest instead of 5

 

im not trying to start trouble, but i dont know how you can honestly say he might be in the top 2 players in baseball without him playing an inning

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7 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

ill believe it when i see him hit major league pitching, and pitch to major league hitters on 4 days rest instead of 5

 

im not trying to start trouble, but i dont know how you can honestly say he might be in the top 2 players in baseball without him playing an inning

Should we never acknowledge the potential of anyone until they've played in the majors? Should we dismiss everyone who does this for a living that drools over this kid? Is it hard to live up to the hype? Of course. That's why I've repeatedly used words that say as much, despite you ignoring that nuance each time. 

Going off 2016 WAR leaders, if he pitched like Lester and hit like Neil Walker, he'd be in the running for best behind Trout. You think it's impossible for the guy to put up those numbers? Sure, let's say he gets fewer at bats because he's pitching and won't play every day. But there's a reason MLB teams tried getting him out of HS and have been waiting to snag him this year. He might not live up to his potential, but he truly has superstar potential. 

This doesn't really account for his running, which some people say is 80 grade. 

 

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Just now, AnonymousRob said:

Should we never acknowledge the potential of anyone until they've played in the majors? Should we dismiss everyone who does this for a living that drools over this kid? Is it hard to live up to the hype? Of course. That's why I've repeatedly used words that say as much, despite you ignoring that nuance each time. 

Going off 2016 WAR leaders, if he pitched like Lester and hit like Neil Walker, he'd be in the running for best behind Trout. You think it's impossible for the guy to put up those numbers? Sure, let's say he gets fewer at bats because he's pitching and won't play every day. But there's a reason MLB teams tried getting him out of HS and have been waiting to snag him this year. He might not live up to his potential, but he truly has superstar potential. 

This doesn't really account for his running, which some people say is 80 grade. 

 

i dont want to argue, i guess time will tell

 

plus the mods said dont discuss this here....so lets just agree to disagree for the time being 

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1 - that's ridiculous to say you don't want to argue a point while literally arguing a point. It's the off-season. It's what we do here every single year. It being so slow and missing a lot of posters who do drive by commentary is one of the best parts about this time of year. Counterpoints are an awesome part that helps all of us expand of knowledge. 

2 - Tony was referring to grumbling about the separate thread being closed. This place for whatever reason will not  allow a thread on a player unless they're in the majors, no matter how obvious it is they're going to be in the majors. Ben that way forever. But discussion of a free agent signing is fine in here, and has also been that way forever. 

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1 minute ago, willie24 said:

Do you think this move helps Trout's numbers slightly like I do?  I have Trout in a keeper league.

 

Which numbers? Do I think it should really do much for his BA/OBP/HR/SBs? No not really. But if Ohtani's a good hitter and can improve the line-up then of course it can help his coutning stats. 

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[ I spoke to the rest of the staff.  The rule on being on the 25-man roster is being interpreted as applying to player threads only.  The rules on larger catch-all topics in the Baseball Talk forum have always been more relaxed, and we will continue that here.  If people want to talk Ohtani here, that's fine.  It's a big signing, so it's going to be a big topic in the Hot Stove conversation anyway.  But we will leave the player thread locked until he's on the active roster.  If you have any questions/complaints about his policy, the Fantasy Feedback Forum is the proper place for those.  As always, comments in-thread about site/moderation issues will be removed if posted in this forum. ]

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1 hour ago, willie24 said:

Do you think this move helps Trout's numbers slightly like I do?  I have Trout in a keeper league.

 

No because I don't think Ohtani is hitting next to or near Trout and I don't think Ohtani is a good hitter. Angels will likely add a 2B like a Neil Walker or perhaps trade for Cesar Hernandez who could hit at the top of the lineup with their solid OBP%. Would mean more chances with runners on base for Trout

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6 minutes ago, Blood Brother said:

 

No because I don't think Ohtani is hitting next to or near Trout and I don't think Ohtani is a good hitter. Angels will likely add a 2B like a Neil Walker or perhaps trade for Cesar Hernandez who could hit at the top of the lineup with their solid OBP%. Would mean more chances with runners on base for Trout

 

What makes you think Ohtani isn't a good hitter? 

 

(not asking from a point of disagreement, but from curiosity, I'm not the most up on his scouting reports)

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His raw power is legit but he struck out a lot in limited AB's in Japan. That swing and miss will be exploited even more against better pitching in MLB. With his pitching potential far exceeding that of his hitting potential, I just don't see him being given enough time and development to truly work on the issues he has as a hitter. I think within 3 yrs he and his team will completely scrap the hitting thing and have him solely focus on pitching. 

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1 hour ago, absknicks said:

27% K rate in Japan. I think the idea of him being an everyday hitter (or most days, even) will be scrapped pretty quickly. 

 

 Splitter is one the most common out pitches for Japaness pitchers. Its something that is used far less over here despite a good splitter being one the most effective out-pitches there is. A is splitter has the same release point and arm speed as a fastball. While america out pitches curves and sliders do not always mask well as a fastball terms. They of course end up having more a-typical movement...but it is a different type of swing and miss issue.

 

Basically we would need to know WHY he's swinging and missing before we know for sure he won't be able to handle it. We have not seen a power hitting Jap since Matsui. Matsui had a 16% K  his final year in Japan.  His career K% in the USA was 13.6.  We have no example of this in recent history(aka last decade) though so its a mystery. We know K rates rose over here the last 10 years..but we know little about the evolution in Japan baseball.

 

Don't assume because its an inferior league. Means the K rate will climb for hitters or decrease for pitchers. Its been the opposite for pitchers and the literately 1 legit power hitting Jap that ever came over. Had the Inverse happen.

 

Also he's only 23 right now. Both Ichiro and Matsui came over in the middle of their prime. He's coming in with potential to improve.

 

Aoki is the most recent example(Coming over in 2012).. and his K rate in Japan the last 2 years was around 8-9%. His career USA K% is 8.5

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3 hours ago, Slatykamora said:

 

Also he's only 23 right now. Both Ichiro and Matsui came over in the middle of their prime. He's coming in with potential to improve.

 

This was the one thing I was thinking the most. 23 isn't 19 exactly, but this is a very young person who could improve. 

 

Like I said though, I'm not the most invested in the Scouting Reports thus far, I'm just very excited to see him add to an Angels team that really deserves to win a bit more with one of the best players in bb.

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