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2017-2018 Off-season and Hot Stove Thread


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13 hours ago, Golden Spikes said:

big winner could be no 5 hitter

 

Didi

 

also is Torres going to start at 2B?

 

 

Reading between the lines of Cashman's remarks about it, sounds like they'll give him a shot to earn the job out of ST but that they kinda anticipate starting him in AAA (which makes sense given he had limited ABs there before getting hurt). Also I really should know this but don't have the time to look it up right now but I believe if he spends another few weeks in the minors the Yankees gain another year of control. I'm usually up to date on service time issue in-season but my memory is getting rough nowadays.

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JT Realmuto right now  

This doesn't belong here but had no idea where else to put it so people will see it. Tonight (1/30) starting at 7:00pm CST MLB.TV will run a documentary on Tony Gwynn. Should be worth watching as he w

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1 hour ago, WahooManiac said:

Given the options available, he's not the four hitter. Even if you ignore all the "just enoughs" he hit and buy the power as real, he's not a better power option for the cleanup spot. I'll grant you he's turned himself into a good hitter, but c'mon. Look at these monsters

 

Oh I agree I think Didi is 5 followed by Bird. Interesting thing is a lot of judge and stantons success was with them both hitting 2nd

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On 12/9/2017 at 12:19 AM, taobball said:

What a way to top off a new young and exciting core. As a Cubs fan, I'm glad he went to the AL and especially not those devil red birds, but damn this loads up the Yankees. 

Takes away the Cubs' biggest competitor for Harper next year. Between Ohtani and Stanton I feel like the Cubs dodged a couple bullets.

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3 hours ago, Fuzzy_Slippers said:

Jeter didn't even show up at the Winter Meetings to discuss the Stanton trade. Many people see it as a cowardly move. 

 

Why?  It was a decent salary dump given Stanton would only go to 4 teams and nixed the St Louis and SF offers.  And he can flip Castro.  I don't know who the "many people" are but they certainly aren't GMs.

 

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39 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Why?  It was a decent salary dump given Stanton would only go to 4 teams and nixed the St Louis and SF offers.  And he can flip Castro.  I don't know who the "many people" are but they certainly aren't GMs.

 

 

Yeah I mean... it's hard to know how the market works, but I do think Giancarlo's handicapping of the marlins is being undersold here. I don't blame him as a person or competitor, but when there's like... 8 teams in general that can afford the contract and when you say no to six of them, it's really hard to make that trade happen. 

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3 hours ago, absknicks said:

 

 

Matt Harvey in Camden Yards might set the single season record for worst ERA for a SP with the minimum innings required. 

Worse than Ubaldo? I think NASA is still trying to calculate his ERA.

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5 hours ago, taobball said:

 

Yeah I mean... it's hard to know how the market works, but I do think Giancarlo's handicapping of the marlins is being undersold here. I don't blame him as a person or competitor, but when there's like... 8 teams in general that can afford the contract and when you say no to six of them, it's really hard to make that trade happen. 

Yeah, I had the displeasure of hearing Jim Rome bash the Marlins with his usual hyperbole. I don't think they could have done much better. 

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10 hours ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Yeah, I had the displeasure of hearing Jim Rome bash the Marlins with his usual hyperbole. I don't think they could have done much better. 

It's their own damn fault. You don't tell a player that he's going to be on the team for life if he doesn't agree to their terms. The Miami "brass" are a freaking joke, and I hope they get run out of the league. Jeter is an absolute moron, and we're going to see them trade away Ozuna/Yelich next. It's a freaking joke. Miami had one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB last season: 20th, $111 million.

 

Yeah, their attendance sucks... but part of that has to do with the team sucking. Instead of going out and trading all your assets, go get a pitcher. Even if they went for it this year and raised their salary by 15%, then you can look at making some changes next year. But this is ridiculous.

 

Miami handicapped themselves by threatening a player. They couldn't have done much better because they have no idea what the f--- they're doing.

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17 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Why?  It was a decent salary dump given Stanton would only go to 4 teams and nixed the St Louis and SF offers.  And he can flip Castro.  I don't know who the "many people" are but they certainly aren't GMs.

 

i don't know if i'd call jeter a coward for not showing up to the winter meetings, but it seems like he should be attending the meetings because he's actively trying to discuss trades of other players. are they done now that stanton is gone?

overall thought: there's no good reason he shouldn't be attending the winter meetings, regardless of what happened with stanton. they're in full rebuild mode and have several assets worth discussing. why do we think he chose not to attend?

@Fuzzy_Slippers @taobball

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28 minutes ago, osb_tensor said:

i don't know if i'd call jeter a coward for not showing up to the winter meetings, but it seems like he should be attending the meetings because he's actively trying to discuss trades of other players. are they done now that stanton is gone?

overall thought: there's no good reason he shouldn't be attending the winter meetings, regardless of what happened with stanton. they're in full rebuild mode and have several assets worth discussing. why do we think he chose not to attend?

@Fuzzy_Slippers @taobball

Instead he went to the Dolphins game

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2 hours ago, osb_tensor said:

i don't know if i'd call jeter a coward for not showing up to the winter meetings, but it seems like he should be attending the meetings because he's actively trying to discuss trades of other players. are they done now that stanton is gone?

overall thought: there's no good reason he shouldn't be attending the winter meetings, regardless of what happened with stanton. they're in full rebuild mode and have several assets worth discussing. why do we think he chose not to attend?

@Fuzzy_Slippers @taobball

 

I don't know about the tag, are you asking me the end question? I mean I really am not defending Jeter for not showing up to the meetings, tho I do believe the Marlins have other executives and in many senses I don't know how many Owners or CEOs show up to the winter meetings in general. 

 

I was just speaking towards the general backlash of the trade. Fans of the marlins can be mad that the Marlins handcuffed themselves to a massive trade without having a great plan to build the team. But if they're looking to shave money off the books they were handcuffed regardless and shouldn't have expected a much better return than what they got when Stanton is refusing to give them a market. 

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3 hours ago, BlueJaysIn2030 said:

It's their own damn fault. You don't tell a player that he's going to be on the team for life if he doesn't agree to their terms. The Miami "brass" are a freaking joke, and I hope they get run out of the league. Jeter is an absolute moron, and we're going to see them trade away Ozuna/Yelich next. It's a freaking joke. Miami had one of the lowest payrolls in the MLB last season: 20th, $111 million.

 

Yeah, their attendance sucks... but part of that has to do with the team sucking. Instead of going out and trading all your assets, go get a pitcher. Even if they went for it this year and raised their salary by 15%, then you can look at making some changes next year. But this is ridiculous.

 

Miami handicapped themselves by threatening a player. They couldn't have done much better because they have no idea what the f--- they're doing.

 

Eh, I agree the threat wasn't good... but I think you don't blame this management group for the trade. You blame the one that built the contract, plain and simple. 

 

What affect did the threat have? He had already vetoed deals to SF and STL. He had already limited their options to very few. The threat was a desperation move to get him to accept more teams so they could get a better deal. I don't think it worked. But I also don't believe the return was significantly worse than the situation they were already in, where Stanton wants to be a Yankee and seemed to balk at almost every other team.

 

Here's what you blame: You blame a team who gave a guy, at a young age, a THREE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT, and (Low and Away said this is another thread) thought that this wasn't enough, so they felt the need to include both an opt out, which would mean that the player, if something went wrong, could still cash in roughly 200 Million over the course of 7 years for the team, and if he wanted to just leave he could do so of his own accord, and the STILL think that wasn't enough, and include a full no-trade clause so that the player could dictate terms to the team.

 

The Marlins bigger problem isn't that the handed the future of the franchise to Jeter. There's definitely some things going wrong there, don't get me wrong at all, and part of the look he's getting is deserved, but their biggest problem was that they handed the keys of the franchise to a player, handcuffed themselves by the wrist, ankle, etc. to him, and then when that didn't work out and the player no longer wanted to be there, left themselves with no plausible recourse other than to attempt to get the contract off the books so they could build from scratch. 

 

I mean just contemplate the fact that the Marlins will still have to owe the Yankeees money if Stanton opts in. The deal is so bad that the freaking Yankees still want more money. 

 

The Marlins had no business ever signing that contract and the fallout is, perhaps not SOLELY responsible, but imo holds the majority of the blame. 

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14 minutes ago, taobball said:

The Marlins had no business ever signing that contract and the fallout is, perhaps not SOLELY responsible, but imo holds the majority of the blame. 

 

Except we're not talking about a Ryan Howard-esque deal here.  The back end of Stanton's deal is going to suck, but even assuming several years of vaguely replacement-level play at the end and pro-rating that over the years that he's useful, you're talking about a bargain player.  Which means that if this new ownership group is interested in wining, they weren't actually behind the 8-ball at all - -they could have simply kept Stanton and tried to put a competitive team around him.  Yes, that would have meant spending money, but if you're just there to collect profits and not invest in the team, how do you get to call yourselves an investor?  You're basically a rentier at that point just collecting profits through a pass-through entity that happens to play baseball.

 

The most financially savvy move for the Marlins would have been to keep their star player, the one who puts fannies in the seats despite the team's woes.  Instead they did a panic sell-off.  If they didn't have deep enough pockets to wait for their investment to turn a profit, then they shouldn't have bought the team.  Or, more accurately, the MLB shouldn't have accepted the sale.  I'd rather the team die and get taken over by the league the way the NHL did with the Coyotes.  Then at least the focus is on rehabilitating the team instead of liquidating it.

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54 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

...  Yes, that would have meant spending money, but if you're just there to collect profits and not invest in the team, how do you get to call yourselves an investor?  You're basically a rentier at that point just collecting profits through a pass-through entity that happens to play baseball. ...

 

 

This part of your post raises the point as to why MLB approved the Marlins sale to what I'd term the Firesale Ownership Group in the first place.

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