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2017-2018 Off-season and Hot Stove Thread


2ndCitySox
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20 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

I don't know exactly which metrics you're looking at but I'll say this off the cuff: 

check and see how many CFers actually were positive. CF is one of the most if not the most premium position in the field. I think there were twelve CFers in Fangraphs def who got positive scores. If you're a "0" in CF, you're actually a really solid CFer the way most of those metrics work. 

I looked at his page on baseball reference, so they don't  make a distinction based on what OF position you play? WAR is wins above replacement so how can only 9 CF's be above "0". That makes little sense to me , like i said its a flawed system. That means that 2/3 of the CF's in MLB are below average in the field, how is that even possible?

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17 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

I looked at his page on baseball reference, so they don't  make a distinction based on what OF position you play? WAR is wins above replacement so how can only 9 CF's be above "0". That makes little sense to me , like i said its a flawed system. That means that 2/3 of the CF's in MLB are below average in the field, how is that even possible?

 

Not their WAR their defensive value. But listen, now you're asking me how these statistics work and that's WAY above my pay grade. What I've always heard in reference to these metrics is that at the high level defensive positions primarily CF, a "0" is not "bad." A "0" is a pretty darn good CFer. A shallow negative is still a guy overall who's doing good things for your ball club. That's my interpretation of most of these metrics for CF. the fact that as I said there's not a ton of positive rates for CFers on fangraphs seems to agree with this. But again don't ask me why the metrics work the way they do.

 

Anyway the important point is eatons better than Ozuna in this aspect, metrics or not

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Nats land Kintzler for 2 years.

 

Meanwhile the White Sox have surprised me with this:

 

Quote

According to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, the White Sox "emerged Wednesday as the most aggressive suitor" for Manny Machado.

 

Chicago isn't quite ready to contend and Machado can become a free agent after the 2018 season, but Rosenthal hears that the White Sox would quickly attempt to sign Machado to a long-term deal if they were able to land him. There's also the possibility, per Rosenthal, that the White Sox could flip the star third baseman to another club -- maybe the Yankees? -- to further stack their loaded farm system. Baltimore probably wouldn't do a direct trade with New York. Machado is also known to be drawing serious interest from the Giants, Red Sox, and Cardinals.

 

At first I didn't understand but the explanation makes sense.  Get him and try to extend him.  If you can't then you can always flip him to someone else, probably the Yankees, for more young prospect goodies.  Of course they would have to give up some prospects to get him.  But still the gamble won't leave them hanging if they can trade for good prospects back later.

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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Nats land Kintzler for 2 years.

 

Meanwhile the White Sox have surprised me with this:

 

 

At first I didn't understand but the explanation makes sense.  Get him and try to extend him.  If you can't then you can always flip him to someone else, probably the Yankees, for more young prospect goodies.  Of course they would have to give up some prospects to get him.  But still the gamble won't leave them hanging if they can trade for good prospects back later.

 

Seems like a hell of gamble but I guess if they think his value goes up midseason? 

 

But even the thought of an injury I think would have to scare the room enough to not give up what you'd need to... I mean could you IMAGINE if a young rebuilding white sox organization making some great selling moves gives up a number of good prospects for a guy who leaves and gives them a QO draft pick. 

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Rumors that Toronto is interested in Lorenzo Cain and/or trading for Avasail Garcia.  Add that to the ones about Jay Bruce and, damn it who, whoever it was yesterday they were interested in. 

 

I bet Tesocar Hernandez is thinking, "Trade me away already if you aren't gonna let me play here."  Stupid Jays have him and Alford and SHOULD be in rebuild mode because they can't catch the Red Sox this year and certainly not the Yankees and the Angels are set to claim the remaining Wild Card spot with the Mariners as the dark horse.  So what the heck is Toronto thinking. 

 

Trade Donaldson to St Louis while you can still get a great return on him and let Tesocar and Alford play and collect those prospects instead of giving yours to the White Sox for Avisail.

 

I don't know why I keep ranting about how stupid Toronto is being.  It helps my Sox that they aren't rebuilding in the max way possible.  I guess I'm just fond of the city and the people there having visited there over a half dozen times.  Got a soft spot for Toronto and always will have.  The people there deserve better than what their front office is busy doing right now.  Or threatening to do.  Jays are always "interested" but still haven't done anything yet.

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If Baltimore is trading Machado they know they will be rebuilding and they lose him after next year anyway. Davis's contract hamstrings them.

 

But if you are rebuilding 4-5 years with luck) why not trade to the Yankees if that is the best offer? You wouldn't be competing so doesn't make any sense to worry about it?

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3 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

If Baltimore is trading Machado they know they will be rebuilding and they lose him after next year anyway. Davis's contract hamstrings them.

 

But if you are rebuilding 4-5 years with luck) why not trade to the Yankees if that is the best offer? You wouldn't be competing so doesn't make any sense to worry about it?

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for the O's. I'm just saying it is very unlikely to happen. Very rarely does a team trade a superstar within the division. Why should the Yankees give up any prospects, that they could use for something they actually need, a Starting Pitcher, when they can wait til next year and sign Machado without giving up anything but money.

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2 hours ago, jfazz23 said:

im hearing yankees have an offer on machado out there

Angelos said no way

 

I think more likely is he's trade to CWS and flipped to New York

 

as Phillies fan I am just chillen......good chance one of Machado or Harper are landing in Philly next year.

 

only contract on books is Herrera.....Phillies brass have been preparing for that off-season for 3 years

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11 minutes ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

Angelos said no way

 

I think more likely is he's trade to CWS and flipped to New York

 

as Phillies fan I am just chillen......good chance one of Machado or Harper are landing in Philly next year.

 

only contract on books is Herrera.....Phillies brass have been preparing for that off-season for 3 years

phillies will give harper 400 mil you think?

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9 minutes ago, jfazz23 said:

phillies will give harper 400 mil you think?

they were listed by Forbes as turning the most profit in 2016

 

they are big market team that had one of the highest payrolls a few years ago but haven't been spending

 

there's Comcast money coming in.....Middleton one of the owners is crazy about winning.

 

and like I said they have just the Odubel and I forgot they just signed Tommy Hunter and Neshak to two year deals.

 

So three contracts on the book at around 20 million in payroll before 2019 season.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/philadelphia-phillies/payroll/2019/

Edited by XxxOilOverloadxxX
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10 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Someone mentioned this about Corbin too but especially as it pertains to Greinke -- can the Dbacks really afford to sell? They made the NLDS last year. It seems to me to be a poor decision. 

They want JD Martinez, I guess they can't afford both

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24 minutes ago, taobball said:

 

Someone mentioned this about Corbin too but especially as it pertains to Greinke -- can the Dbacks really afford to sell? They made the NLDS last year. It seems to me to be a poor decision. 

Seems so much of today's team makeup isn't about talent but salary money. Greinke is about 27% of DBacks total salary at present and Goldschmidt is seriously underpaid.

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2 hours ago, Under500Forever said:

It may not happen but the Red Sox want JD and Hosmer. If they signed JD what would that do to the Sox current OF with Betts, Benintendi and JBJ? Would JD end up as the DH? 

Just curious because I have always thought the Sox considered that setup their OF of the future. 

 

They want to trade away JBJ now.  They need home run power and the Stanton to the Yankees move is forcing their hand quicker than they originally intended.   Benintendi would move to center where he played all his life and JD would play in left.  If they can't move JBJ he would become the 4th outfielder I guess.

 

If the Sox don't land JD look for them to go hard after Bryce Harper next year.

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20 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Of course they would have to give up some prospects to get him.  But still the gamble won't leave them hanging if they can trade for good prospects back later.

This kinda reminds me of what the Tigers did a few years back with David Price. They acquired him in a deadline deal from the Rays when he had a season and change left on his contract. They got him for Willy Adames and Nick Franklin, then flipped him during the following years deadline for Daniel Norris, Matt Boyd. Although Adames' stock has increased and Norris' has decreased since the trades, the Tigers ultimately didn't have to pay much for a calendar year of David Price.

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20 minutes ago, Maxcd99 said:

This kinda reminds me of what the Tigers did a few years back with David Price. They acquired him in a deadline deal from the Rays when he had a season and change left on his contract. They got him for Willy Adames and Nick Franklin, then flipped him during the following years deadline for Daniel Norris, Matt Boyd. Although Adames' stock has increased and Norris' has decreased since the trades, the Tigers ultimately didn't have to pay much for a calendar year of David Price.

 

Right but the difference is they were trying to compete that year and price had an extra year of control

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