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2017-2018 Off-season and Hot Stove Thread


2ndCitySox
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I don't understand why fans of Boston don't want Stanton because of the contract, its not your money, they print money there, they have had plenty of bad contracts like Panda, Castillo, Price and they are still a good team, its the teams that don't make money that should worry about the bad contracts, i'd take Stanton than having to watch Jackie Bradley hit 

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16 minutes ago, azeri98 said:

I don't understand why fans of Boston don't want Stanton because of the contract, its not your money, they print money there, they have had plenty of bad contracts like Panda, Castillo, Price and they are still a good team, its the teams that don't make money that should worry about the bad contracts, i'd take Stanton than having to watch Jackie Bradley hit 

well im hearing they are going for JDM

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On 11/23/2017 at 11:19 AM, Khahan said:

 

Not that we haven't seen players do an about face on this before but Stanton has publicly stated that he will not waive his no-trade clause for Boston or St Louis. I'm quite happy with that.  Boston could certainly use his bat but doesn't need his contract.  It would be an albatross for years to come.  Hopefully ownership and management has learned from Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, Hanley Ramirez and Kung Fu Panda. . .but I doubt it. 

 

You forgot David Price and Rusney Castillo as well as Dustin Pedroia's horrible contract as well.  The official definition of insanity in Webster's should  be changed to "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results as in the Boston Red Sox contracts."

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1 hour ago, azeri98 said:

I don't understand why fans of Boston don't want Stanton because of the contract, its not your money, they print money there, they have had plenty of bad contracts like Panda, Castillo, Price and they are still a good team, its the teams that don't make money that should worry about the bad contracts, i'd take Stanton than having to watch Jackie Bradley hit 

 

They need a 1B, not another outfielder.  Get the power at that position instead.  Owner John Henry is pissed at going over the luxury tax too.  And Jackie Bradley Jr's defensive WAR or whatever it is is super elite.  He doesn't have to hit to cause 1 to 2 runs different a game in favor of Boston.  He adds by subtraction.

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4 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

You forgot David Price and Rusney Castillo as well as Dustin Pedroia's horrible contract as well.  The official definition of insanity in Webster's should  be changed to "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results as in the Boston Red Sox contracts."

I rue the day I ever heard Rusney Castillo's name.  In that ST a few years back when he was competing with Betts for PT(unCSB), I chose the wrong guy who was more interested in driving the 911 than putting in work.

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3 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

They need a 1B, not another outfielder.  Get the power at that position instead.  Owner John Henry is pissed at going over the luxury tax too.  And Jackie Bradley Jr's defensive WAR or whatever it is is super elite.  He doesn't have to hit to cause 1 to 2 runs different a game in favor of Boston.  He adds by subtraction.

If they sign Hosmer or JD they go over the tax anyway, they were the worst hitting home runs, Betts could move to cf and you don't lose anything, Im a Jays fan i would gladly replace Pillar for Stanton, the amount of runs Bradley saves would be more than offset by the offence Stanton creates

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1 hour ago, azeri98 said:

If they sign Hosmer or JD they go over the tax anyway, they were the worst hitting home runs, Betts could move to cf and you don't lose anything, Im a Jays fan i would gladly replace Pillar for Stanton, the amount of runs Bradley saves would be more than offset by the offence Stanton creates

 

That aren't after JD Martinez and they have a hole at 1B, not the outfield.  Going over the tax at 1B for a necessity isn't the same as going over it in the outfield where they have the best defensive outfield in MLB.  I don't want off-injured, flat-footed Stanton and his contract in Boston ever!  Two runs saved a game for cheap or an injured multi-million dollar/year contract on your books and on the DL?  Give me Bradley anytime.

 

Also where the is a argument for Hosmer there is no assurance they will go hard after him.  They seem more interested in the cheaper and less years for a contract Carlos Santana right now.

 

And Stanton doesn't put you over the luxury tax.  He buries you forever in it's with it's penalties that go up the more you are over it.

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2 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

That aren't after JD Martinez and they have a hole at 1B, not the outfield.  Going over the tax at 1B for a necessity isn't the same as going over it in the outfield where they have the best defensive outfield in MLB.  I don't want off-injured, flat-footed Stanton and his contract in Boston ever!  Two runs saved a game for cheap or an injured multi-million dollar/year contract on your books and on the DL?  Give me Bradley anytime.

 

Also where the is a argument for Hosmer there is no assurance they will go hard after him.  They seem more interested in the cheaper and less years for a contract Carlos Santana right now.

 

And Stanton doesn't put you over the luxury tax.  He buries you forever in it's with it's penalties that go up the more you are over it.

True about the tax plus they will need to shell out money for Betts and Benintendi and Sale if they keep him, they really need power in their line up, Hosmer doesn't really give you that neither does Santana

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I like Hosmer as a team personality and positive diligent worker.  He'd probably excel in Beantown.  He's been a post hype guy for like 8 years and it's hard for me to give unabashed credence to those guys' who had their career hitting years last year.  I need to see more in case there are some corrections made with the baseballs.

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1 hour ago, STLSU said:

I like Hosmer as a team personality and positive diligent worker.  He'd probably excel in Beantown.  He's been a post hype guy for like 8 years and it's hard for me to give unabashed credence to those guys' who had their career hitting years last year.  I need to see more in case there are some corrections made with the baseballs.

I think Hosmer is the most overrated player in baseball. He's so meh and everyone always raves. 

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On 11/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

That aren't after JD Martinez and they have a hole at 1B, not the outfield.  Going over the tax at 1B for a necessity isn't the same as going over it in the outfield where they have the best defensive outfield in MLB.  I don't want off-injured, flat-footed Stanton and his contract in Boston ever!  Two runs saved a game for cheap or an injured multi-million dollar/year contract on your books and on the DL?  Give me Bradley anytime.

 

Also where the is a argument for Hosmer there is no assurance they will go hard after him.  They seem more interested in the cheaper and less years for a contract Carlos Santana right now.

 

And Stanton doesn't put you over the luxury tax.  He buries you forever in it's with it's penalties that go up the more you are over it.

Maybe they look at trading with CHW for Abreu?

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On 11/24/2017 at 5:57 PM, BlueJaysIn2030 said:

I think Hosmer is the most overrated player in baseball. He's so meh and everyone always raves. 

As a fantasy player he is overrated but not as much as Corey Seager is, as actual baseball players i don't think he is overrated

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On 11/24/2017 at 5:57 PM, BlueJaysIn2030 said:

I think Hosmer is the most overrated player in baseball. He's so meh and everyone always raves. 

 

I don't.  25 homers two years running at KC translated to 30 plus at Fenway.  Gold Glove 1B who can add to the defense as well.  I'd rather have him than Abreu who would cost them the rest of their farm system.

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7 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I don't.  25 homers two years running at KC translated to 30 plus at Fenway.  Gold Glove 1B who can add to the defense as well.  I'd rather have him than Abreu who would cost them the rest of their farm system.

No it doesn't. Hosmer is like one of the more neutral ball park hitters out there. The guy never hits the ball in the air. if people really expect a big HR increase in a smaller ball park. They are going to be disappointed.

 

Also Fenway is one of the harder ball parks for LHH to hit it out anyway. He'll only see an increase in doubles .290/.350/.500 , 23-26 HR.  Solid for sure

Edited by Slatykamora
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7 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I don't.  25 homers two years running at KC translated to 30 plus at Fenway.  Gold Glove 1B who can add to the defense as well.  I'd rather have him than Abreu who would cost them the rest of their farm system.

I'm very curious where his supposed gold glove label comes from. Every single defensive measurement available has him sub par. I don't love defensive stats yet, but they all seem to agree on Hosmer

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1 hour ago, WahooManiac said:

I'm very curious where his supposed gold glove label comes from. Every single defensive measurement available has him sub par. I don't love defensive stats yet, but they all seem to agree on Hosmer

He's one of those guys like Hechevarria (sp?) where managers rave their D but the stats do not lol.

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9 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

I don't.  25 homers two years running at KC translated to 30 plus at Fenway.  Gold Glove 1B who can add to the defense as well.  I'd rather have him than Abreu who would cost them the rest of their farm system.

Hosmer sucks at defence. He was like -14 last season. 

 

Abreu is way better than Hosmer by all metrics... But yeah, I'm not saying you go out and trade here. I'm saying Hosmer isn't hat good. He's at best a 25hr 1b who is going to get paid way too much money. 

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41 minutes ago, BlueJaysIn2030 said:

Hosmer sucks at defence. He was like -14 last season. 

 

Abreu is way better than Hosmer by all metrics... But yeah, I'm not saying you go out and trade here. I'm saying Hosmer isn't hat good. He's at best a 25hr 1b who is going to get paid way too much money. 

Yeah, Hosmer isn't very good defensively. He also hits way too many ground balls. 

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1 hour ago, STLSU said:

He's one of those guys like Hechevarria (sp?) where managers rave their D but the stats do not lol.

Serious question, do we think it's just because he's a boring white guy that played for a mid western team, so therefore he just must be good at D? For the life of me, i can't fig how the Hosmer Gold Glove D narrative even started. And not to pick on BBT, I've heard it a lot. 

 

Possibly he has a skill that defensive metrics don't track well?

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1 minute ago, WahooManiac said:

 

 

Possibly he has a skill that defensive metrics don't track well?

You raise an interesting point.  Remember the movie "Trouble with the Curve"?  I think there's always room for eagle eye and cat's ear scouts, and engineering will continue to improve the metrics.  We know that Fangraphs and Baseball Reference don't always agree on their formula data either.  

 

I guess there's always an "It" factor that we should continually strive to put a tangible value towards.

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27 minutes ago, WahooManiac said:

Serious question, do we think it's just because he's a boring white guy that played for a mid western team, so therefore he just must be good at D? For the life of me, i can't fig how the Hosmer Gold Glove D narrative even started. And not to pick on BBT, I've heard it a lot. 

 

Possibly he has a skill that defensive metrics don't track well?

Most positions are judged by range(catching by range) and throwing. 1B is range and catching in a stationary position.  You could only get half the story if you judge them the same way other positions are judged. I'm not sure how you accurately tackle the question of how well a 1B can receive less than ideal thrown balls.

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6 minutes ago, Slatykamora said:

Most positions are judged by range(catching by range) and throwing. 1B is range and catching in a stationary position.  You could only get half the story if you judge them the same way other positions are judged. I'm not sure how you accurately tackle the question of how well a 1B can receive less than ideal thrown balls.

This, and many other reasons, is why I'm hesitant to just throw out the narrative for the numbers. Ultimately I guess I really just don't know ish about how these defensive metrics come to their final scores. 

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