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Best teamin the NFC - debate


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17 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

The same JAC D that lost to Blaine Gabbert?

 

Yeah that JAC D...

 

With This Jac QB...

 

C/ATT   YDS      AVG      TD    INT    Sacks      QBR      RTG

  19/33    160        4.8        0       1         3-32         39.7     57.6

 

Their run game is was non existent as well... If they bring in a QB and Fornette can stay healthy its a completely different team.  They were on the field for almost 60% of the game.  Tough for any D to last that long.

 

Edited by Flynfiesta6
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14 minutes ago, Flynfiesta6 said:

 

I can agree on that but its not because they are not as talented its because of another fact that you mentioned... the game is designed to benefit the offense and changes every season.  I don't remember if it was the next season or one shortly after but defensive holding calls were not a thing when the legion of boom was in full force.  They basically said that their goal was to be overly physical and make the refs call them for PI before they would adjust, with the defensive holding penalties now I don't think they would have been as dominant if they were playing with todays penalties but who knows.

They were a thing. The big thing with the LOB was they were so physical that the refs couldn't throw a flag on every play. Plus, they lead the league in penalties almost every year.

 

They also aren't as talented. Good but not on that level. I do think today it's slightly more beneficial to the offense but not enough to make a huge difference. Now and 20 years ago or whatever is where the huge gap is at.

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4 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

They were a thing. The big thing with the LOB was they were so physical that the refs couldn't throw a flag on every play. Plus, they lead the league in penalties almost every year.

 

They also aren't as talented. Good but not on that level. I do think today it's slightly more beneficial to the offense but not enough to make a huge difference. Now and 20 years ago or whatever is where the huge gap is at.

 

They were not nearly as big of a thing the year they won the superbowl.  There were 181 defensive holding calls made in the 2013 season vs 235 that were made in the 2014 season.  That's significant and was a reaction to how Seattle played D.

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1 hour ago, Flynfiesta6 said:

 

They were not nearly as big of a thing the year they won the superbowl.  There were 181 defensive holding calls made in the 2013 season vs 235 that were made in the 2014 season.  That's significant and was a reaction to how Seattle played D.

How dare you use stats to question the expert opinion of Gohawks! In all seriousness though, that was probably the first year he'd ever watched football since it was the first time Seattle was relevant, so you have to forgive him if he doesn't understand why the Seahawks were good that year.

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14 minutes ago, SurlyRobot said:

How dare you use stats to question the expert opinion of Gohawks! In all seriousness though, that was probably the first year he'd ever watched football since it was the first time Seattle was relevant, so you have to forgive him if he doesn't understand why the Seahawks were good that year.

 

LOL!  Don't know about how much of an expert anyone is on here but figured there was a little bias because of the user name.  Still was a great defense but they were allowed to play by different rules than Jax is this year, that's the only point I was trying to make.

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On 12/4/2017 at 2:06 PM, Flynfiesta6 said:

Next week this thread could/most likely will look very different, 3 big matchups and the Seahawks have a tough one as well.

 

Vikings @ Carolina (Vikings -3)

Saints @ Falcons (PK)

Eagles @ Rams (Rams -2.5)

 

Should be an interesting final quarter of the season! 

 

In my opinion, I think the Saints are the best team in the NFC.  They check every box for a team that can win in January, where for me there are question marks around every other team.  Strong running game, great playoff experienced QB and a good defense.  If they lock up homefield I think they are headed to the SB but if they have to travel to Philly I think that's where they may slip. 

Would you like to change your opinion?

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I honestly though the Saints were the best team too. Not by a lot, but the entire NFC seems a little weak this year. Saints turned around their defense, can run, and you have Brees.

 

They had a bad game today and lost Kamara. 

 

Big loss though. I think they're a team that needs that HFA to go to the Super Bowl.

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1 minute ago, tpat30 said:

I honestly though the Saints were the best team too. Not by a lot, but the entire NFC seems a little weak this year. Saints turned around their defense, can run, and you have Brees.

 

They had a bad game today and lost Kamara. 

 

Big loss though. I think they're a team that needs that HFA to go to the Super Bowl.

The NFC is week? You cannot be serious.

 

The 2nd best team on the AFC are the Steelers who just beat the pathetic Packers by only 3 and even more pathetic Colts by 3. Then you have the Titans who themselves have issues and Jaguars who have a bum at QB. After these elite teams you get the Ravens whos QB has been absolutely horrific and everything else is a s--- fest.

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4 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

The NFC is week? You cannot be serious.

 

The 2nd best team on the AFC are the Steelers who just beat the pathetic Packers by only 3 and even more pathetic Colts by 3. Then you have the Titans who themselves have issues and Jaguars who have a bum at QB. After these elite teams you get the Ravens whos QB has been absolutely horrific and everything else is a s--- fest.

AFC is definitely weaker. Maybe I should just say the NFC is more even. No one really stands out as a clear SB favorite.

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11 minutes ago, tpat30 said:

I honestly though the Saints were the best team too. Not by a lot, but the entire NFC seems a little weak this year. Saints turned around their defense, can run, and you have Brees.

 

They had a bad game today and lost Kamara. 

 

Big loss though. I think they're a team that needs that HFA to go to the Super Bowl.

you're smoking crack....my team is 10-2 and usually you have at least a bye sewn up at that point

 

 

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4 minutes ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

you're smoking crack....my team is 10-2 and usually you have at least a bye sewn up at that point

 

 

When you say "my team" I immediately discredit your take due to bias.

 

Your team also has a QB that has been a backup or fringe starter at best for his entire career. Now, you can chalk it up to he has hit some magical turning point after 5 seasons or that the reality is he is on a hot streak that is going to end. I prefer the second option. I would love the Vikings to win the SB if Seattle doesn't but the reality is Keenum is a mirage. 

Edited by Gohawks
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Just now, Gohawks said:

When you say "my team" I immediately discredit your take due to bias.

 

Your team also has a QB that has been a backup or fringe starter at best for his entire career. Now, you can chalk it up to he has hit some magical turning point after 5 seasons or that the reality is he is on a hot streak that is going to end. I prefer the second option. I would love the Vikings to win the SB if Seattle doesn't but the reality is Keenum is a mirage. 

I'm an Eagles fan. But I agree on your Vikings point!

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1 minute ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

I'm an Eagles fan. But I agree on your Vikings point!

Oh, it honestly didn't cross my mind that a fan could think their team is the favorite after losing by double digits at the first sign of a team that isn't bad.

 

The Saints still have the most going for them. This was a terrible game and their biggest playmaker went out on the first drive yet they still almost won. Not to mention all the other injuries. 

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3 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Oh, it honestly didn't cross my mind that a fan could think their team is the favorite after losing by double digits at the first sign of a team that isn't bad.

 

The Saints still have the most going for them. This was a terrible game and their biggest playmaker went out on the first drive yet they still almost won. Not to mention all the other injuries. 

ah Patriots got smoked at home by now a bad Chiefs team

 

Eagles went two and half months without losing

 

Falcons got to the SB last year at 11-5

 

Eagles just need to focus on Sunday

 

also the situation playing a Seattle team would be more slanted towards Eagles in a playoff.....considering Seattle would probably have played an extra game and have to go on the road 

Edited by XxxOilOverloadxxX
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On 12/5/2017 at 3:31 PM, Flynfiesta6 said:

 

Jasonville's Defense is scary,  might not be to those levels yet, but they also don't have an offense on the other side that can run some clock and let them rest.  If they sign a decent QB next year they will have a real shot at a SB run.

Jacksonville's defense isn't anywhere near as good as Denver's or Tampa's when they won Super Bowls, or Baltimore for their first one. They're not even good against the run. Give me a break. 

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9 hours ago, Gohawks said:

When you say "my team" I immediately discredit your take due to bias.

 

Your team also has a QB that has been a backup or fringe starter at best for his entire career. Now, you can chalk it up to he has hit some magical turning point after 5 seasons or that the reality is he is on a hot streak that is going to end. I prefer the second option. I would love the Vikings to win the SB if Seattle doesn't but the reality is Keenum is a mirage. 

I'll go with the magical turning point option.  Kinda like Rich Gannon and Kurt Warner

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This is why I said the NFC is weak. I did change my opinion to say that maybe I should say the NFC has just been really even this year. But does anyone actually think Minnesota is a great team? I could see them being upset in the divisional round by any of the NFC teams, except maybe the Rams. 

 

And yea you can argue there are plenty of teams with great records, but I watch most games and none of the teams stand out as a clear cut favorite. They all seem to have weaknesses. 

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4 minutes ago, tpat30 said:

This is why I said the NFC is weak. I did change my opinion to say that maybe I should say the NFC has just been really even this year. But does anyone actually think Minnesota is a great team? I could see them being upset in the divisional round by any of the NFC teams, except maybe the Rams. 

 

And yea you can argue there are plenty of teams with great records, but I watch most games and none of the teams stand out as a clear cut favorite. They all seem to have weaknesses. 

yes Minnesota does appear to be a great team.  There isn't one team in the NFL that has been better than them this year.  Their record paired with their strength of schedule is better than anyone's.  Their offense and defense are both ranked in the top 5.  They are near the top in 3rd down conversions and red zone efficiency.  If you have watched the Vikings play then you would easily recognize that they do stand out.

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12 hours ago, TommyKramer said:

Would you like to change your opinion?

 

Haha how reactionary of you!  A 3 point loss, on the road, on a short week,  losing 6 starters during the game with injuries and they had the ball in the red zone with a chance to win with less than a minute left... No I still think they are pretty good and are still the best team in the NFC IMO.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, TommyKramer said:

yes Minnesota does appear to be a great team.  There isn't one team in the NFL that has been better than them this year.  Their record paired with their strength of schedule is better than anyone's.  Their offense and defense are both ranked in the top 5.  They are near the top in 3rd down conversions and red zone efficiency.  If you have watched the Vikings play then you would easily recognize that they do stand out.

 

I have watched them. Maybe it's because I watched them struggle for 3 quarters against the Browns. Scoring 9 against the Steelers. Maybe it's because I watched them only score 7 on the Lions or squeak by the Bears to win by 3. But I guess the only thing that counts is wins and they've won 8 in a row. I think it's Keenum. He's been playing out of his mind, but I don't see him keeping that up in the playoffs. Especially if they play a solid defense. And Minny's defense seems to enjoy letting teams back into games like they did with the Redskins and Lions.

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12 hours ago, Gohawks said:

The NFC is week? You cannot be serious.

 

The 2nd best team on the AFC are the Steelers who just beat the pathetic Packers by only 3 and even more pathetic Colts by 3. Then you have the Titans who themselves have issues and Jaguars who have a bum at QB. After these elite teams you get the Ravens whos QB has been absolutely horrific and everything else is a s--- fest.

 

The Steelers also trounced the Vikings so what's your point? 

 

That they play down to their opponents? Congratulations the entire NFL has known that for a long time. 

Edited by Iron-Curtain
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10 minutes ago, tpat30 said:

 

I have watched them. Maybe it's because I watched them struggle for 3 quarters against the Browns. Scoring 9 against the Steelers. Maybe it's because I watched them only score 7 on the Lions or squeak by the Bears to win by 3. But I guess the only thing that counts is wins and they've won 8 in a row. I think it's Keenum. He's been playing out of his mind, but I don't see him keeping that up in the playoffs. Especially if they play a solid defense. And Minny's defense seems to enjoy letting teams back into games like they did with the Redskins and Lions.

this right here, people discredit the Eagles for losing against SEA in SEA when they had 400yds of offense but don't look at what MIN did. Yes they won some important games, but some of them were not really impressive. Now, cue the "good teams figure out a way to win" BS but to me they are not the all-mighty top seed as all the Vikings fans would like to throne them. As of now, I think it's anybody's game, no clear-cut top dog

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50 minutes ago, Flynfiesta6 said:

 

Haha how reactionary of you!  A 3 point loss, on the road, on a short week,  losing 6 starters during the game with injuries and they had the ball in the red zone with a chance to win with less than a minute left... No I still think they are pretty good and are still the best team in the NFC IMO.

 

 

That's fine.  We are all entitled to our opinions. At the end of the year most of us will be wrong.  I just don't see how anyone can think the Saints are a better team than the Vikings right now, when everything you can look at says the Vikings are better, the records say the Vikings are better, the strength of opponents say the Vikings are better, plus the Vikings beat the Saints this year and the Falcons in Atlanta, while the Saints just lost to them. It just does not make any sense to me

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