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Official scoring mini-rant


ssmarsh

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Before I became a roto baseball addict nine years ago I never really payed that much attention to how games were officially scored. Now that those little nuances impact my roto team, I pay much more attention to the details (as I'm sure most of us do).

I don't usually have an issue with how hitters are scored (despite the occasional hit that gets taken away when it's scored an error), but there are some cases that simply aren't fair to pitchers and those of us that need those stats!

Case #1 – Screwing a SP out of a W after a great performance. Say a starting pitcher throws 8 shutout innings and leaves a 0-0 game after 8.2 innings. After a reliever comes in and gets the final out of the inning, the SP's team scores a run in the 9th to win the game. The reliever who got one out gets the W while the starter who threw a jem gets nada. Ridiculous. I say give the SP the W and if MLB feels it's necessary to give the reliever something for his trouble, throw him a hold or some other made up "stat" like Preserved Win or something.

Case #2 – Assigning a blown save when it's not the reliever's fault. Last night's TB/OAK game is the perfect example of this one...Oakland has a 1-0 lead after 7 and Joey Devine enters the game with 2 on and 0 out. After a K, intentional BB and another K, the bases are loaded with 2 outs. The next batter reaches on an ERROR that allows all three base runners to score. Devine strikes out the next batter for a final line of 1 IP, 0 hits, 1 run, 0 ER, 1 BB (intentional), 3 K and 1 blown save. I watched the highlights and it was obviously (to me) an error when Emil Brown slid for a ball and missed it, allowing all the runs to score. If it had been scored a hit, no problem, give Devine the BS. However, since the official scorer gave Brown an error, putting the fault on him, Devine shouldn't get hosed with a BS. Weak.

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I just saw on MLB.com that Brown's error has been changed to a 2B, which is a horrible change IMO, but at least now I can live with the blown save. I think I need to get a job as an official scorer...

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Before I became a roto baseball addict nine years ago I never really payed that much attention to how games were officially scored. Now that those little nuances impact my roto team, I pay much more attention to the details (as I'm sure most of us do).

I don't usually have an issue with how hitters are scored (despite the occasional hit that gets taken away when it's scored an error), but there are some cases that simply aren't fair to pitchers and those of us that need those stats!

Case #1 – Screwing a SP out of a W after a great performance. Say a starting pitcher throws 8 shutout innings and leaves a 0-0 game after 8.2 innings. After a reliever comes in and gets the final out of the inning, the SP's team scores a run in the 9th to win the game. The reliever who got one out gets the W while the starter who threw a jem gets nada. Ridiculous. I say give the SP the W and if MLB feels it's necessary to give the reliever something for his trouble, throw him a hold or some other made up "stat" like Preserved Win or something.

Case #2 – Assigning a blown save when it's not the reliever's fault. Last night's TB/OAK game is the perfect example of this one...Oakland has a 1-0 lead after 7 and Joey Devine enters the game with 2 on and 0 out. After a K, intentional BB and another K, the bases are loaded with 2 outs. The next batter reaches on an ERROR that allows all three base runners to score. Devine strikes out the next batter for a final line of 1 IP, 0 hits, 1 run, 0 ER, 1 BB (intentional), 3 K and 1 blown save. I watched the highlights and it was obviously (to me) an error when Emil Brown slid for a ball and missed it, allowing all the runs to score. If it had been scored a hit, no problem, give Devine the BS. However, since the official scorer gave Brown an error, putting the fault on him, Devine shouldn't get hosed with a BS. Weak.

Theres a much easier solution. Don't play in leagues where Wins or Blown Saves are categories. I disagree with your idea to make these stats more subjective to the official scorer. The Official Scorer is biased and is a main cause of complaints (with regard to scoring something either a hit or error). Don't put any more stats in the hands of official scorers, they already have too many.

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I disagree with your idea to make these stats more subjective to the official scorer.

I wasn't suggesting that since they're already subjective enough. It's just annoying, that's all.

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I wasn't suggesting that since they're already subjective enough. It's just annoying, that's all.

My fault for assuming that. I think we can agree that those 2 situations you described are extremely annoying.

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Since we're on the topic of official scoring, I've never agreed with the unearned runs if a pitcher gets blown up after an error would've have been a 3rd out (i.e. Mussina yesterday, 7 runs, 1 earned). I understand the assumption is it would've been the 3rd out and all runs after wouldn't have happened, but he was getting lit up. I think that run shouldn't be earned because he was on due to an error, but all others should be earned.

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Since we're on the topic of official scoring, I've never agreed with the unearned runs if a pitcher gets blown up after an error would've have been a 3rd out (i.e. Mussina yesterday, 7 runs, 1 earned). I understand the assumption is it would've been the 3rd out and all runs after wouldn't have happened, but he was getting lit up. I think that run shouldn't be earned because he was on due to an error, but all others should be earned.

If that's the case, then the runners on base at the time would also be unearned. Imagine a reliever coming in with the bases loaded, 2 outs, and an error that would've ended the inning. All those on base would be unearned, but maybe all of the reliever's runners would be earned. that does make sense.

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If that's the case, then the runners on base at the time would also be unearned. Imagine a reliever coming in with the bases loaded, 2 outs, and an error that would've ended the inning. All those on base would be unearned, but maybe all of the reliever's runners would be earned. that does make sense.

MLB can charge the EARNED runs to the Positional player that committed the error

do you think thats a better solution?

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Case #1 – Screwing a SP out of a W after a great performance. Say a starting pitcher throws 8 shutout innings and leaves a 0-0 game after 8.2 innings. After a reliever comes in and gets the final out of the inning, the SP's team scores a run in the 9th to win the game. The reliever who got one out gets the W while the starter who threw a jem gets nada. Ridiculous. I say give the SP the W and if MLB feels it's necessary to give the reliever something for his trouble, throw him a hold or some other made up "stat" like Preserved Win or something.

Too subjective. You use an extreme example, but where do you draw the line? What if they pitch 5 scoreless innings? 6.2 scoreless innings? Do they still get the W?

The way W's are scored right now are perfect IMO because you can draw a definite line to be fair to everyone. In most cases, If the team is winning while you're pitching, and they do not lose that lead, you get a W. Clean cut, unlike "If you pitch a great game, and we think you deserve a W, we'll give you one"

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I just saw on MLB.com that Brown's error has been changed to a 2B, which is a horrible change IMO, but at least now I can live with the blown save. I think I need to get a job as an official scorer...

It was a horrible scoring change as it cost me 2 ER AND ...

The Babe hobnobbing with clients had the play unfold right in front of her. Her opinion: He should have had that. My opinion: Either way he misplayed it, 1 base error or 2 base error.

Boo.

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I just saw on MLB.com that Brown's error has been changed to a 2B, which is a horrible change IMO, but at least now I can live with the blown save. I think I need to get a job as an official scorer...

The reason this call was changed was because Brown lost the ball in the lights. He had it all the way, then just lost sight of the ball. Since he did not mis-play the ball by any fault of his own, 9 times out of 10 it goes down as a hit.

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I believe the stat you're looking for is called "Quality Start."
Don't get me started on that one...how 3 ER over 6 IP (4.50 ERA) is a quality start is beyond me.
The reason this call was changed was because Brown lost the ball in the lights. He had it all the way, then just lost sight of the ball.

If he had it all the way, it should have remained an E since he didn't make the play. Lost it in the lights? Puh-lease...

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As an official scorer for a MLB team for 22 years, I know what you're talking about. Unfortunately, many of the things you mention (SP getting hosed out of a win) are in the rule book that MLB generated back in the dark ages. There is no legitimate beef with official scoring along those lines. We only execute the "laws" that are in place.

By the way, blown saves are NOT an official statistic. Neither are holds. Those are things (like the old 'game winning rbi' from back in the 80's) that were created by stat services and took on a world of their own. I would invite anybody that really cares and is interested, to buy a rule book. There are several things in there you will certainly find interesting.

There are also several gray areas that are extremely aggrivating. When is a stolen base not a stolen base and is called defensive indifference? There is NO CLEAR RULE as to how to enforce the defensive indifference call.

Anyway, don't look for any real serious scoring changes anytime soon. As I've been told, when a rule is brought up for change/review, it has to have the blessing of the players union to be passed. Anytime the players union agrees to ANYTHING that MLB proposes, they have to play their BS game of "ok, but now you owe me one". That said, what real chance do you think MLB is going to spend one of their "you owe me one's" on a scoring rule change? Is their a number less than zero?

Just thought you folks would like the word of someone that lived that (scorers) life for 22 years.

Before I became a roto baseball addict nine years ago I never really payed that much attention to how games were officially scored. Now that those little nuances impact my roto team, I pay much more attention to the details (as I'm sure most of us do).

I don't usually have an issue with how hitters are scored (despite the occasional hit that gets taken away when it's scored an error), but there are some cases that simply aren't fair to pitchers and those of us that need those stats!

Case #1 – Screwing a SP out of a W after a great performance. Say a starting pitcher throws 8 shutout innings and leaves a 0-0 game after 8.2 innings. After a reliever comes in and gets the final out of the inning, the SP's team scores a run in the 9th to win the game. The reliever who got one out gets the W while the starter who threw a jem gets nada. Ridiculous. I say give the SP the W and if MLB feels it's necessary to give the reliever something for his trouble, throw him a hold or some other made up "stat" like Preserved Win or something.

Case #2 – Assigning a blown save when it's not the reliever's fault. Last night's TB/OAK game is the perfect example of this one...Oakland has a 1-0 lead after 7 and Joey Devine enters the game with 2 on and 0 out. After a K, intentional BB and another K, the bases are loaded with 2 outs. The next batter reaches on an ERROR that allows all three base runners to score. Devine strikes out the next batter for a final line of 1 IP, 0 hits, 1 run, 0 ER, 1 BB (intentional), 3 K and 1 blown save. I watched the highlights and it was obviously (to me) an error when Emil Brown slid for a ball and missed it, allowing all the runs to score. If it had been scored a hit, no problem, give Devine the BS. However, since the official scorer gave Brown an error, putting the fault on him, Devine shouldn't get hosed with a BS. Weak.

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By the way, blown saves are NOT an official statistic. Neither are holds.
I know, which is the ironic part. My league includes those in our categories to try and bring more "realism" to our little fantasy world.
Anyway, don't look for any real serious scoring changes anytime soon.

I was never expecting one, but I had to vent someplace! B)

Thanks for the insight!

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The reason this call was changed was because Brown lost the ball in the lights. He had it all the way, then just lost sight of the ball. Since he did not mis-play the ball by any fault of his own, 9 times out of 10 it goes down as a hit.

So does this mean that Navarro is going to get 3 added RBI to his total for the 2B? That would be sweet...

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So does this mean that Navarro is going to get 3 added RBI to his total for the 2B? That would be sweet...

He has already in my leagues (BTW- That play gave him 2 more RBI bringing his total for the night to 3).

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The league Iv'e been running for 23 years now (one of the first ever actually - and I was one of the original invitees to the LABR 'mega regular' draft a few years ago) and the one thing that I've always done is the KISS method. Keep It Simple Stupid. No blown saves, we don't even use WHIP. Straight up 7 categories (4 hitting, 3 pitching) in a head to head format, whoever wins the most categories wins the game. Like I said - KISS!

I know, which is the ironic part. My league includes those in our categories to try and bring more "realism" to our little fantasy world.

I was never expecting one, but I had to vent someplace! B)

Thanks for the insight!

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He has already in my leagues (BTW- That play gave him 2 more RBI bringing his total for the night to 3).

Just got back from the...place where all men do their greatest thinking and thought "WTF did I just right?"

All 3 RBIs came on that swing. Sheesh.

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Just got back from the...place where all men do their greatest thinking and thought "WTF did I just right?"

All 3 RBIs came on that swing. Sheesh.

Makes me wanna turn this into a Dioner Navarro appreciation thread. Haven't missed a beat with Posada down...

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