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Josh Hader 2018 Outlook


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At what point do they give this guy a shot in the rotation? Tremendous value by keeping him in the Andrew Miller role but you gotta wonder if they ever give him a shot to start just to see what they have. You don't wanna mess with a good thing but they could have an ace on their hands. 

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21 minutes ago, DannyMcPot said:

At what point do they give this guy a shot in the rotation? Tremendous value by keeping him in the Andrew Miller role but you gotta wonder if they ever give him a shot to start just to see what they have. You don't wanna mess with a good thing but they could have an ace on their hands. 

 

Especially since their rotation is trash. I figure when Knebel gets back they'll at least consider it. 

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6 minutes ago, absknicks said:

 

Especially since their rotation is trash. I figure when Knebel gets back they'll at least consider it. 

If he's going 2 to 3 innings, then he's got a better chance to impact more games, especially, with the rest of the starters lucky to get 5 quality innings each start.  Don't mess with absurd success.

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20 minutes ago, Magoo said:

If he's going 2 to 3 innings, then he's got a better chance to impact more games, especially, with the rest of the starters lucky to get 5 quality innings each start.  Don't mess with absurd success.

 

Over the long haul, an elite SP is still far more valuable than any reliever, regardless of how good he is. If you have a chance to develop an elite SP, you take it. No questions asked.

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32 minutes ago, absknicks said:

 

Over the long haul, an elite SP is still far more valuable than any reliever, regardless of how good he is. If you have a chance to develop an elite SP, you take it. No questions asked.

It’s a different game today with starters going fewer innings. He’s already elite. Develop him in the offseason. Don’t mess with success for this season.

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25 minutes ago, Magoo said:

It’s a different game today with starters going fewer innings. He’s already elite. Develop him in the offseason. Don’t mess with success for this season.

Sometimes the risk is worth it to find out. It was worth it to see if that guy Chris Sale could start.

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8 hours ago, DannyMcPot said:

At what point do they give this guy a shot in the rotation? Tremendous value by keeping him in the Andrew Miller role but you gotta wonder if they ever give him a shot to start just to see what they have. You don't wanna mess with a good thing but they could have an ace on their hands. 

 

He can only throw two pitches for strikes consistently. He's all fastball-slider with a very occasional changeup. He won't start until or unless he can find a way to throw a third pitch for a strike.

 

True, an ace starter is more valuable than a knockout reliever, but a knockout reliever is probably more valuable than your average number two starter, and there's a risk with Hader that trying to convert him to a starter would diminish his effectiveness out of the pen. If they can get 100 innings out of him with 160+ strikeouts and crazy ratios, they may be satisfied with that. And that's not even considering how big he could be in a playoff series, if/when they make it to one.

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2 minutes ago, dele said:

 

He can only throw two pitches for strikes consistently. He's all fastball-slider with a very occasional changeup. He won't start until or unless he can find a way to throw a third pitch for a strike.

 

True, an ace starter is more valuable than a knockout reliever, but a knockout reliever is probably more valuable than your average number two starter, and there's a risk with Hader that trying to convert him to a starter would diminish his effectiveness out of the pen. If they can get 100 innings out of him with 160+ strikeouts and crazy ratios, they may be satisfied with that. And that's not even considering how big he could be in a playoff series, if/when they make it to one.

 

When you pitch out of the pen, there's really no reason to feature more than 2 pitches, but when he was pitching more extended outings last year I remember distinctly that he had a plus changeup that I'm sure he would use a lot more as a starter. 

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I bet if by July/August the Brewers are completely out of the playoff race that they will think about giving him a shot in the rotation to see how he handles. There was an article in the pre-season that the Brewers still see him as a starter long-term, but wanted him to pitch out of the pen for this year.

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3 minutes ago, AllNoAll said:

So he K's 8 out of the 9 batters he faced last night. Last RP to do that; Randy Johnson! This guy should be a starter!

He really shouldn't. He's too inefficient and doesn't have enough pitch variety plus he's the best reliever in baseball in his current role. I think the idea that every great reliever should be a starter is kinda absurd. 

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3 minutes ago, AllNoAll said:

So he K's 8 out of the 9 batters he faced last night. Last RP to do that; Randy Johnson! This guy should be a starter!

Maybe, maybe not. But I can tell you one thing. I love looking at this guy's line after he pitches. It's incredible what he's doing for our teams right now.

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17 minutes ago, RAZRr1275 said:

He really shouldn't. He's too inefficient and doesn't have enough pitch variety plus he's the best reliever in baseball in his current role. I think the idea that every great reliever should be a starter is kinda absurd. 

 

These are things that he can develop through starting pitching. And his pitch variety is fine. He flashed 3 plus pitches last year when he was pitching more extended outings.

 

He's going to get another chance to start at some point, it's just a matter of when.

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There are tons of SPs nowadays with only 2 pitches. Only got fastball/slider, how is that different than Chris Archer, for example? 

 

It's possible right now he's Archer and with a change up he's Sale. 

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He could certainly develop and if he's a Sale tier starter that would be amazing. If he's more Archer I'd probably like him more as a RP. I think he'd only be worth as a starter if he could log a sub 3.5 ERA. Otherwise I'd take the likely 1 or .something he'll get as a RP

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18 IP, 4 H, 5 BB, 39 K, 1.00 ERA, 0.42 FIP, 0.50 WHIP so far for Hader in 2018.
 

Hader has faced 62 batters this season and he's struck out 39. That's outrageous. In terms of strikeouts per nine innings, it's 19.5. For reference, the highest ever K/9 for a pitcher with at least 50 innings pitched was Aroldis Chapman in 2014 with a 17.67 mark.

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