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Amari Cooper 2018 Outlook


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1 minute ago, hangin n wangin said:

I will be waiting for the next excuse after his game against Denver.

 

that altitude brah, ya know?

 

"Another excuse."  You're acting like he's been bad all season, it's been 1 game.

 

Denver is another s---y matchup.  If he puts up say 4/50 my opinion won't change.  If he puts up another atrocious game then he's on my bench until further notice.

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3 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

 

"Another excuse."  You're acting like he's been bad all season, it's been 1 game.

 

Denver is another s---y matchup.  If he puts up say 4/50 my opinion won't change.  If he puts up another atrocious game then he's on my bench until further notice.

He has been bad all season. They have played one game and he was bad.

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The talent gap between Rams LB and their cover corners is so wide it's unreal.  

 

I'm not surprised that the Raiders chose to attack the TE routes and won't be shocked if most of the Rams' opponents do the same.  Fortunately Oakland doesn't face the Rams again this season.

 

It's only Week 1.  Buy Low.

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13 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

People need to relax:

 

1. This is an awful comparison.  Amari was historically productive his first two seasons and has had one bad season + one bad game.

 

2.  He just went up against probably the 2nd or 3rd hardest matchups for WRs in the NFL and the Raiders game plan was clearly to avoid throwing at Peters and Talib.

 

 

He was not historically productive in fantasy. He was drafted to be better than he was and has never been a WR1. Real-life wise, he has been amongst the worst WR's in dropped passes in the entire league. 

 

Moving past his first two seasons, if you think the past one bad season + one bad game + one bad coach + one bad QB + one bad team around him as a whole is not a problem, that's your choice. 

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10 minutes ago, Corleone said:

 

He was not historically productive in fantasy. He was drafted to be better than he was and has never been a WR1. Real-life wise, he has been amongst the worst WR's in dropped passes in the entire league. 

 

Moving past his first two seasons, if you think the past one bad season + one bad game + one bad coach + one bad QB + one bad team around him as a whole is not a problem, that's your choice. 

1. Historically productive for his first two seasons in the NFL.  He's one of just 3 WRs in NFL history to have over 1000 yards + 70 catches in his first two seasons.  Didn't think I needed to explain that.

 

2. He was half point PPR WR13 in 2015 and scored 0.9 less points than the WR12 Larry Fitz.  So technically you're right.

 

3. It's an incredibly silly argument to say that he's never been good because he didnt put up elite numbers in his rookie and sophmore years.  The point is that he was on an elite WR trajectory (top 5 pick, great college production, good athlete, historic early NFL production) and then flamed out last year when everybody was expecting him to finally take that big jump.  Now it's been 1 bad game against a top 3 NFL secondary and you're acting like he's done.

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2 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

1. Historically productive for his first two seasons in the NFL.  He's one of just 3 WRs in NFL history to have over 1000 yards + 70 catches in his first two seasons.  Didn't think I needed to explain that.

 

2. He was half point PPR WR13 in 2015 and scored 0.9 less points than the WR12 Larry Fitz.  So technically you're right.

 

3. It's an incredibly silly argument to say that he's never been good because he didnt put up elite numbers in his rookie and sophmore years.  The point is that he was on an elite WR trajectory (top 5 pick, great college production, good athlete, historic early NFL production) and then flamed out last year when everybody was expecting him to finally take that big jump.  Now it's been 1 bad game against a top 3 NFL secondary and you're acting like he's done.

 

1. He was not historically productive in fantasy. I didn't think I needed to explain that (even though that's exactly what I wrote). 

 

2. He was somewhere between the #21--#25 WR in 2015. Now I know each league has different settings, but he was nowhere close to #13 in 2015. So technically and actually you're wrong.

 

3. His "elite WR trajectory" was also filled with this: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-raiders-push-cooper-to-work-on-drops (Sept. 2017)

And this: https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-drops-still-problem-for-raiders-wr-amari-cooper (Sept. 2016)


Overall, we can agree to disagree. I have no shares of Amari so I won't be playing him. It sounds like you will be starting him against Denver based on your posts. Best of luck. 

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12 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

1. Historically productive for his first two seasons in the NFL.  He's one of just 3 WRs in NFL history to have over 1000 yards + 70 catches in his first two seasons.  Didn't think I needed to explain that.

 

2. He was half point PPR WR13 in 2015 and scored 0.9 less points than the WR12 Larry Fitz.  So technically you're right.

 

3. It's an incredibly silly argument to say that he's never been good because he didnt put up elite numbers in his rookie and sophmore years.  The point is that he was on an elite WR trajectory (top 5 pick, great college production, good athlete, historic early NFL production) and then flamed out last year when everybody was expecting him to finally take that big jump.  Now it's been 1 bad game against a top 3 NFL secondary and you're acting like he's done.

He's not done. But, what has he done recently? Nothing. Fantasy is all about value, and he was overvalued all last season. One season is enough evidence for me to stay away unless I can get him for the price of a WR3. I don't own him though so I guess that makes me a different kind of bias.

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3 minutes ago, Corleone said:

1. He was not historically productive in fantasy. I didn't think I needed to explain that (even though that's exactly what I wrote). 

 

I would assume that being 1 of 3 WRs to have over 1000yds and 70 catches in their first two seasons would also equate to historical fantasy production from a WR in their first two years.  I can't find any data on most fantasy points scored by WRs in their first few seasons so I can't back that up but I think that's a pretty safe assumption.

5 minutes ago, Corleone said:

2. He was somewhere between the #21--#25 WR in 2015. Now I know each league has different settings, but he was nowhere close to #13 in 2015. So technically and actually you're wrong.

 

I meant to say 2016 although finishing as a WR2 your rookie year is pretty damn impressive.

7 minutes ago, Corleone said:

 

Yup he has issues with easy drops.  If that's enough for you to dismiss everything else he's shown then that's your prerogative.

12 minutes ago, Corleone said:

Overall, we can agree to disagree. I have no shares of Amari so I won't be playing him. It sounds like you will be starting him against Denver based on your posts. Best of luck. 

 

With the Baldwin injury I may be forced to but I'm obviously nervous about it given last year plus last night's game.

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2 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

 

I would assume that being 1 of 3 WRs to have over 1000yds and 70 catches in their first two seasons would also equate to historical fantasy production from a WR in their first two years.  I can't find any data on most fantasy points scored by WRs in their first few seasons so I can't back that up but I think that's a pretty safe assumption.

 

I meant to say 2016 although finishing as a WR2 your rookie year is pretty damn impressive.

 

Yup he has issues with easy drops.  If that's enough for you to dismiss everything else he's shown then that's your prerogative.

 

With the Baldwin injury I may be forced to but I'm obviously nervous about it given last year plus last night's game.

 

Good luck playing Cooper and coping with Baldwin's injury (don't like to see anyone get hurt). 

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A couple things:

 

1. Gruden said he was open on at least 5 instances and should have been thrown to. 

 

2. I think there was a tweet that he was like the 4th best wr in yards separation for week 1. So he did get seperation. 

 

3. Don’t forget that he and Carr hardly played in the preseason. Carr threw just 7 passes the entire preseason. I wasn’t surprised to see them behind a bit considering they didn’t see a lot of game action. 

 

4. Cooper could be a bust or could get going. He should have seen about 7 targets or so but you know how that goes. Jared cook went off the first 4-5 games last year as well. 

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Just now, Corleone said:

 

Because I try to provide facts about players to the fantasy community. I have provided facts (along with some opinion) throughout this thread. If anyone chooses to disregard the facts about Amari's fantasy play because they don't like the facts, so be it. 

 

If you don't have any shares of a particular player and don't have any interest in acquiring said player, and all you are doing in a player's thread is repeatedly sandbagging said player, you're just trolling at that point. But we knew that already when you compared Cooper to Parker and were actually serious about it. And yes having 1k in receiving yards as a 21 and 22 year old is historic fantasy production. HINT: Breakout age matters. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chwf3rd said:

People need to relax:

 

1. This is an awful comparison.  Amari was historically productive his first two seasons and has had one bad season + one bad game.

 

2.  He just went up against probably the 2nd or 3rd hardest matchups for WRs in the NFL and the Raiders game plan was clearly to avoid throwing at Peters and Talib.

 

Odell just dropped over 100 yards and drew two big PIs against the best defense in the game.

 

Yes, Cooper is no Odell. In fact, he’s not even in the same atmosphere. However, the point is elite WRs put up numbers on anyone. Cooper has been treated as such. He isn’t. When you factor that in with a bad QB you get the product that he is. 

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1 minute ago, Gohawks said:

Odell just dropped over 100 yards and drew two big PIs against the best defense in the game.

 

Yes, Cooper is no Odell. In fact, he’s not even in the same atmosphere. However, the point is elite WRs put up numbers on anyone. Cooper has been treated as such. He isn’t. When you factor that in with a bad QB you get the product that he is. 

 

The coach actually needs to call plays for you and the QB actually needs to throw you the ball in order for you to produce as a WR. 

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4 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

Odell just dropped over 100 yards and drew two big PIs against the best defense in the game.

 

Yes, Cooper is no Odell. In fact, he’s not even in the same atmosphere. However, the point is elite WRs put up numbers on anyone. Cooper has been treated as such. He isn’t. When you factor that in with a bad QB you get the product that he is. 

 

I mean nobody is expecting him to be OBJ right now, like you said, so I don't think that comparison is very helpful.

 

And yes, people thought he could become a top 5 WR after his first two seasons because he was statistically on that trajectory.  Obviously expectations have been reduced.

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Anyone watch the game? Carr literally didn’t even look to the side of the field cooper was on most of the game. Going through progressions? Nonexistent last night. To actually not even look at your best wideout is remarkable. Sure, last year was bad and maybe this year will be too. But last night was not on Amari. 

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2 minutes ago, dsrich said:

Anyone watch the game? Carr literally didn’t even look to the side of the field cooper was on most of the game. Going through progressions? Nonexistent last night. To actually not even look at your best wideout is remarkable. Sure, last year was bad and maybe this year will be too. But last night was not on Amari. 

 

The OAK game plan was to pepper the TEs and RBs with short passes and take advantage of the Rams' LBs and Ss.  Worked in the first half as Carr went 20/24 for almost 200 yards.  Second half everything fell apart and Carr looked skittish, refusing to throw the ball more than 5 yards down the field.

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4 minutes ago, dsrich said:

Anyone watch the game? Carr literally didn’t even look to the side of the field cooper was on most of the game. Going through progressions? Nonexistent last night. To actually not even look at your best wideout is remarkable. Sure, last year was bad and maybe this year will be too. But last night was not on Amari. 

 

agreed. a competent QB would allow Cooper's talent to play as a fantasy WR2 - at worst.

But Carr makes him unplayable.

Somehow I always talk myself into him. Thought I had a 6th round steal. Turns out I was getting robbed in the night. 

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Before he starts helping out with the L column...

 

Just bench him folks. If he figures it out, great. Welcome back. We were hoping for a bounce back season and clearly its not happening yet. We need to be real with whats going on here.

 

 Do whatever you can to get him OUT of the lineup (@DEN this week) and play the safe waiting game. Maybe fire him back up next favorable matchup. 

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10 minutes ago, Chwf3rd said:

 

The OAK game plan was to pepper the TEs and RBs with short passes and take advantage of the Rams' LBs and Ss.  Worked in the first half as Carr went 20/24 for almost 200 yards.  Second half everything fell apart and Carr looked skittish, refusing to throw the ball more than 5 yards down the field.

THIS.

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I think now is a good time to buy low. A GM in my league is mulling Stills for Amari and I hope he bites. He had a down year last year and a terrible week 1 vs an elite defense. Better days are hopefully ahead though I’m sure this will be a bumpy ride. 

 

That said, I don’t think most people thought of him as a WR1 or even a top tier WR in the real game. He has however proven to be a WR2/3 with upside to be a high end WR2. If that’s peoples expectations, he should meet them. 

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