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1 hour ago, Cotton Jones said:

Again, Thielan is PPR WR3. He was breaking productivity records for more than half the season. Please tell us more about your "valuation system" because it clearly doesn't involve actual fantasy points, which is the only thing that matters in fantasy football. Unless your league give points for how "little" or "big" the players on your roster are, or where they were drafted. Strangely, Average Amari being a first round pick out of Alabama hasn't done anything to help his fantasy production during his career.

I don't play ppr.  I play in a modified standard format with bonuses for long TDs.  Steady, unspectacular compilers like Thielen aren't as useful under that format.

 

So, again, help yourself to the Jarvis Landry Adam Thielen Julian Edelman Jamison Crowder types.  I am not stopping you.  But I will be dusting my competition with my big-play WR corps.

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A QB who can’t throw and a WR who can’t catch. Not a good fit. A perfect fit. 

Amari for me is the 2017 Gurley of WRs.   - Young incredible talent, freak of nature, pedigree coming out of college - Coming off a disaster year after a promising start to NFL career

A first rounder?? A Dallas first rounder no less?? That’s going to be a top-15 pick! The Raiders just fleeced the Cowboys.

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20 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't play ppr.  I play in a modified standard format with bonuses for long TDs.  Steady, unspectacular compilers like Thielen aren't as useful under that format.

Theilan is standard WR6

Broke records this season

Your reasoning to make Amari > Thielan is a joke

 

On 12/19/2018 at 10:33 AM, Cotton Jones said:

You Average Amari truthers need to come back to Earth. Dak is a middling pass talent. Zeke is the focal point of the offense, and will be as long as he is playing at an elite level. This is going to be the determining factor in Average Amari's draft stock. That's how this works. If you guys play fantasy football you should know this. That's why an ADP earlier than the 3rd is likely foolish and shortsighted (or perhaps earlier than the 4th, which seems to be more the consensus among the people in this thread who live in the real world, not the metroplex). Having a few big games with the Cowboys doesn't erase his opportunity outlook which is markedly worse than all the other WR's we have talked about here. Yes including Juju (seriously, you think they are on "equal footing"?). You think anyone other than Cowboys fans are going to bump up Amari 2-3 rounds because of a few good games out of 16? Are we supposed to believe that changing his zip code suddenly made him a WR1? Or are we supposed to believe that Dak Prescott made him an WR1? Seriously, stop and think about that. What's the difference? It's obviously not Dak, because he's not that good. Is it the coaching of Jason Garrett? LOL no? Then what is it? The new uniform? Is it because he got away from the Raiders, who are dysfunctional? Dude have you even followed the Dallas Cowboys for the last 10 years? You wanna talk about dysfuctional? I'm just begging for you or another Average Amari truther to come up with a narrative that justifies erasing his entire career up until the mid-season trade to the Cowboys.

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21 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't play ppr.  I play in a modified standard format with bonuses for long TDs.  Steady, unspectacular compilers like Thielen aren't as useful under that format.

 

So, again, help yourself to the Jarvis Landry Adam Thielen Julian Edelman Jamison Crowder types.  I am not stopping you.  But I will be dusting my competition with my big-play WR corps.

Thielen is nothing like the other receivers in that list you made. And even in standard Thielen was a lot more productive than Amari for most of the season. I owned Amari most of the season in standard and he was worthless outside of 2 recent weeks in Dallas.

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Dak seems to benefit from having a primary receiver who can get open.  And the opposing defenses are forced to focus on stopping Ezekiel Elliott.  Finally, the fans in Dallas really love Amari and they cheer like mad any time he catches a pass, which seems to be bolstering his possibly fragile ego to some extent.  Also, all the other Dallas receivers are pretty average.

 

So I actually think Dallas is a pretty sweet set-up.

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6 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Dak seems to benefit from having a primary receiver who can get open.  And the opposing defenses are forced to focus on stopping Ezekiel Elliott.  Finally, the fans in Dallas really love Amari and they cheer like mad any time he catches a pass, which seems to be bolstering his possibly fragile ego to some extent.  Also, all the other Dallas receivers are pretty average.

 

So I actually think Dallas is a pretty sweet set-up.

So Average Amari is now a WR1 because of the fans in Dallas.

 

If they're anything like you, I might have to agree, because he can keep on being average and the fans will blindly call him one of the top wide receivers in football.

 

He's going to be better than he was in OAK because the fans in Dallas love to cheer for him. That's legit hilarious/awful

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2 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

So Average Amari is now a WR1 because of the fans in Dallas.

 

If they're anything like you, I might have to agree, because he can keep on being average and the fans will blindly call him one of the top wide receivers in football.

 

He's going to be better than he was in OAK because the fans in Dallas love to cheer for him. That's legit hilarious/awful

I don't expect you to understand why a player's mental well being is important to his performance, because it seems a little too sophisticated a concept for your limited intellect to grasp.  I suspect you have never played or coached a sport.

 

But Cooper has left an organization that paid him lip service but threw the ball to the ghost of Jordy Nelson and Jared Cook instead.  Cooper is now part of an organization which is fully and publicly committed to his success, and is gameplanning accordingly.  Cooper has been flooded with targets, and he has done a lot with them. 

 

I am extremely glad I have Cooper and not Thielen for the championship this week.  Sit back and enjoy the show.  And then take him in the second round next year, if you want him.  Because he won't be there in the third in competitive leagues.

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30 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I don't expect you to understand why a player's mental well being is important to his performance, because it seems a little too sophisticated a concept for your limited intellect to grasp.  I suspect you have never played or coached a sport.

Right, if anyone has shown a limited intellect over the last couple pages it's definitely me.

Not the guy who thinks Amari is better than all but 5 WR's.

 

Stick to the discussion and leave the insults aside. K thx

 

30 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

  Because he won't be there in the third in competitive leagues.

 

Wow, really sticking to that huh.

See you next summer when Amari is going in the 3rd-4th, at best.

Expect to be quoted.

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3 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

Right, if anyone has shown a limited intellect over the last couple pages it's definitely me.

Not the guy who thinks Amari is better than all but 5 WR's.

 

Stick to the discussion and leave the insults aside. K thx

With Cooper's age, pedigree, speed, route running, size and strength, and his situation as an organizational priority on a playoff-caliber team, my personal ranking system has Cooper very high indeed.  And I have defended my position in this thread.  If you have a different ranking system, that's fantastic for you.  Help yourself to the Steady-Eddie Willie Sneads of the world.  You'll get little competition from me, as I will be hunting bigger game.

 

 Cooper is playing this week at the Jerryworld Dome against Tampa in a "gotta have it" game.  I am going to sit back and watch the show.

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10 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

With Cooper's age, pedigree, speed, route running, size and strength, and his situation as an organizational priority on a playoff-caliber team,

his what?

 

11 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

my personal ranking system has Cooper very high indeed.  And I have defended my position in this thread. 

Your personal ranking system, which is just some vague and undefined term used to rationalize your overranking of Average Amari, has been shown to be out of touch with reality. You have "defended your position" with irrational reasoning as to why Amari is better than all but 5 WR's in the league. For example, how the Cowboys fans cheer for him. What?

 

11 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

If you have a different ranking system, that's fantastic for you. 

I don't have a "personal ranking system" to determine where players will go in a draft. I rely on reality, that way I don't reach for players, like someone who drafts Average Amari in the 2nd round.

Looks like you might need to revise or completely abandon your "personal ranking system"

 

 

11 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Help yourself to the Steady-Eddie Willie Sneads of the world.  You'll get little competition from me, as I will be hunting bigger game.

 

Willie Snead? The more ridiculous your arguments get, the more you reveal your overranking of Amari to be equally ridiculous.

 

11 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

You'll get little competition from me, as I will be hunting bigger game.

 

I will also be "hunting bigger game." I will be "hunting" players who will score more fantasy points than Average Amari. That's kind of the point...

 

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7 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

I don't have a "personal ranking system" to determine where players will go in a draft. I rely on reality, that way I don't reach for players, like someone who drafts Average Amari in the 2nd round.

Looks like you might need to revise or completely abandon your "personal ranking system"

See I think this might be your problem right here.  If you don't have a personal ranking system, how do you decide who to pick?  Auto-draft?

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5 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

See I think this might be your problem right here.  If you don't have a personal ranking system, how do you decide who to pick?  Auto-draft?

No, but I would rather use auto-draft than use a "personal ranking system" that puts Average Amari in the 2nd round.

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1 minute ago, Cotton Jones said:

No, but I would rather use auto-draft than use a "personal ranking system" that puts Average Amari in the 2nd round.

If you are going by ADP, you are a slave to last year's numbers.  Or more likely the average of the last three years.  And you will miss out on the next big thing.  And you won't win at fantasy in competitive leagues too often.  Maybe in public ESPN leagues where a third of the teams have become ghost ships.

 

Let me guess--you avoided Saquon Barkley this year because he had previously never played a down in the NFL, correct?  How did that work out for you?

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Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

If you are going by ADP, you are a slave to last year's numbers. 

 

How about being a slave to fandom and 2-3 good games out of a 16 game season?

 

Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

Let me guess--you avoided Saquon Barkley this year 

 

Nope, but keep making stuff up to steer the subject away from only having 5 WR's ranked above Average Amari

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8 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

keep making stuff up to steer the subject away from only having 5 WR's ranked above Average Amari

You keep trying to use this as an insult and I suppose you think you are quite clever.  But I stand by my position that Cooper will not just be a WR1 next year, but he will be top six.  I just think he is that good and is in that ideal a situation.  To me, Cooper will be well worth a second round pick next year, and those who take the plunge will be happy they did.

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5 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

See, you keep trying to use this as an insult and I suppose you think you are quite clever.  

You have been using actual insults and have also said I "obviously don't intellect" or something to that effect. So this is a clear case of projection. Ad hominem attacks are always a clear indication of the person making the attacks to have an incredibly weak position in a discussion.

5 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

But I stand by my position that Cooper will not just be a WR1 next year, but he will be top six.  I just think he is that good and is in that ideal a situation.  To me, Cooper will be well worth a second round pick next year, and those who take the plunge will be happy they did.

Cool. I'm glad you clearly outlined your preposterous take. As stated before, expect to be quoted next summer.


Can we move on now and stop hijacking the thread? Or do you have more nonsense to spew that's unrelated to Amari's 2019 draft position, which is the topic at hand and the topic that I have repeatedly tried to steer the conversation back to?

 

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20 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

Can we move on now and stop hijacking the thread? Or do you have more nonsense to spew that's unrelated to Amari's 2019 draft position, which is the topic at hand and the topic that I have repeatedly tried to steer the conversation back to?

My post previous to this one is quite literally a discussion of where I think Cooper will and should be selected in 2019 drafts, so I am not sure how much more "back on track" I can be.  I will add that, while Cooper has been putting up crooked numbers as a Cowboy in 2018, he will have even more time to master the playbook and work on his timing with Prescott with a full offseason with the Cowboys heading into 2019.  Meanwhile, the usual suspects at the top of the WR rankings will be another year older and another year closer to the end.

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I'd just let Cooper's future performance over the next couple years speak for itself. If he maintains the promise he's shown since the trade some posters here will feel quite foolish. I've watched Coop since the AL days and he's the real deal. He was the first "Elite" WR at AL since Julio (whom I also had the pleasure of seeing back then):

 

Alabama

Player Catches Yards Avg. TDs
Jones (2008-10) 179 2,653 14.8 15
Cooper (2012-14) 228 3,463 15.2 31
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1 hour ago, SuperJoint said:

I'd just let Cooper's future performance over the next couple years speak for itself. If he maintains the promise he's shown since the trade some posters here will feel quite foolish. I've watched Coop since the AL days and he's the real deal. He was the first "Elite" WR at AL since Julio (whom I also had the pleasure of seeing back then):

 

Alabama

Player Catches Yards Avg. TDs
Jones (2008-10) 179 2,653 14.8 15
Cooper (2012-14) 228 3,463 15.2 31

There are numbers from his professional career you could cite. They are probably more relevant than his college career.

 

History is littered with great college WR's who never lived up to their promise in the NFL.

 

If Amari was traded to a team with an Aaron Rodgers type QB with a high-powered offense, and was therefore guaranteed production and to be the focal point of the offense, this discussion would be dramatically different. He'd be a WR1.


In reality, Zeke is far-and-away the focal point of the offense, they're built around running the football with a run-blocking O line and a QB who isn't a very good passer.

 

If you've got something substantive about why his numbers in Oakland are irrelevant because now he's in Dallas, please review the last paragraph of my post linked below, where I ran over all those narratives, backed up, then ran over them again:

 

 

So far, the only counterargument to the points I made about how the Cowboys situation isn't dramatically different from the one with the Raiders is that the Cowboys have better fans.

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41 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

So you got nothin. College stats and Julio comps.

Noted for the record.

See you next season

You are being quite a bit harsh. Amari isn't a top-10 WR, but he is borderline and in the discussion. Talent-wise he always has been. He runs great routes and gets open. And he had success in Oakland until Carr stopped throwing the ball his way. Dak isn't much of an upgrade, but consistent targets are something he wasn't getting in Oakland.

 

He is a solid WR2.

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