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[Thread for previous season automatically locked. Feel free to post a new thread for 2019.]

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7 minutes ago, devaster said:

You are being quite a bit harsh. Amari isn't a top-10 WR, but he is borderline and in the discussion. Talent-wise he always has been. He runs great routes and gets open. And he had success in Oakland until Carr stopped throwing the ball his way. Dak isn't much of an upgrade, but consistent targets are something he wasn't getting in Oakland.

 

He is a solid WR2.

At the very beginning I said he was "third round PPR, at best."

Read some of the ridiculous stuff that's been posted about his 2019 value. Only 5 WR's are better. Second round pick. Drafted after the first round turn.

Now tell me how I'm being harsh.

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A QB who can’t throw and a WR who can’t catch. Not a good fit. A perfect fit. 

Amari for me is the 2017 Gurley of WRs.   - Young incredible talent, freak of nature, pedigree coming out of college - Coming off a disaster year after a promising start to NFL career

A first rounder?? A Dallas first rounder no less?? That’s going to be a top-15 pick! The Raiders just fleeced the Cowboys.

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17 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

At the very beginning I said he was "third round PPR, at best."

Read some of the ridiculous stuff that's been posted about his 2019 value. Only 5 WR's are better. Second round pick. Drafted after the first round turn.

Now tell me how I'm being harsh.

You seem to have a lot of misplaced anger.  One of the nice things about fantasy football is that each fantasy team manager can decide for him or herself how to value a specific player.  I try to project future production without as much emphasis on what a player has done in the past, especially if their situation has changed in some way.  This year the Raiders have traded a generational pass rusher away, signed Jordy Nelson and Doug Martin, traded FOR Martavis Bryant, fired their GM of the year candidate, and won just 3 games.  I really don't know what they are doing, and I want no part of it.

 

So I see leaving Oakland as a big plus for Cooper.  Then I look at his age, speed, route running, and talent level and conclude that he is on a very upward trend.  And I choose to value him quite highly, even more than I would value an Antonio Brown, AJ Green, or Julio Jones who are all excellent but are getting a little long in the tooth.  And that's my choice and my choice alone to make.

 

And yet the way I choose to value Cooper seems to be driving you to distraction.  I have welcomed you to value Cooper any way you would like.  It seems unlikely that I will agree with your valuation; you seem to think he is around WR20 or so, while I think he is quite possibly the next big thing.

  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

You seem to have a lot of misplaced anger. 

 

Because I pointed out how wrong you are about Average Amari.

I literally just posted something hours ago about how you are projecting and using ad hominem attacks because you don't have a leg to stand on in this discussion.

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7 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Do you believe I should be able to pick the players I think will do well, even if I take them sooner than their amalgamated ADP?

 

I sincerely do not care what you, or anyone else, does in drafts.

We are talking about Average Amari's 2019 draft stock. Not fantasy draft philosophy. Or, contrary to what you seem to think, about me, or my character, or intellect.

This is the reason we are talking about Average Amari's draft stock:

 

On 12/19/2018 at 12:00 AM, SharkSwimmer said:

4th round is a complete joke.  Cooper is the focal point of the Cowboys passing game.  Dude is going second round in drafts in any competent league.

 

Not "I am going to take Amari in the 2nd round"

Instead "your league is not competent if someone does not draft Amari Cooper by the second round."

It's an absurd statement.

We later found out that this is your point of you not based on any sort of reason or logic or statistics. It is because of your "personal ranking system" which is a world salad meaning nothing, other than what I would guess - with a fair amount of certainty - is your inability to separate your Cowboys fandom from the objective reality of the fantasy value of Cowboys players.

 

I made an attempt to end this on the last page, but as long as you are going to directly address me with insulting language/personal attacks, I am going to continue to respond to defend myself. Using big words. If that makes you think that I'm "angry" then, uh, oh well.

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Okay, let's try this again.

 

I believe Cooper will be a top-six wideout in 2019.  And I have stated many reasons for that projection in this thread.  I could restate them for you, but you could just read the thread instead, I suppose.  

 

What is your response to the reasons I have given to support my projection?

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5 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Okay, let's try this again.

 

I believe Cooper will be a top-six wideout in 2019.  And I have stated many reasons for that projection in this thread.  I could restate them for you, but you could just read the thread instead, I suppose.  

 

What is your response to the reasons I have given to support my projection?

I have less than zero interest wasting my time re-litigating this entire thing. Just as you said, I suggest that you could just read the thread.

 

And your "many reasons" for projecting Average Amari as a top-end WR1, second round pick or higher, are a joke. Based on nothing of substance. As I have stated. You could read the thread for more on my "response" on that.

Edited by Cotton Jones
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I view Amari in a very different light. I wouldn't put him anywhere near Julio or AJG in talent even with them being older. Amari is in a better situation, but in no way is it an ideal situation or great situation. If Dallas makes some good coaching staff changes that may change things though. Dak is going to be his QB for the next few years though and that shouldn't excite anyone.

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7 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

I have less than zero interest wasting my time re-litigating this entire thing. Just as you said, I suggest that you could just read the thread.

 

And your "many reasons" for projecting Average Amari as a top-end WR1, second round pick or higher, are a joke. Based on nothing of substance. As I have stated. You could read the thread for more on my "response" on that.

Well, I did not want to do this, but here you go.

1)  Amari Cooper was a very high first round draft pick from a national power after an insanely productive college career;

2)  He has plus NFL speed, quickness, short area burst, and route running;

3)  Leaving the Raiders is a huge plus;

4)  He is 24 years old;

5)  Joining Dallas has been a nice fit because his new team is peppering him with targets and has a solid running game to keep opposing defenses honest;

6)  Although Cooper is putting up magnificent stats as a Cowboy, he might be even better next year with more familiarity with the offense and a full offseason to expand on chemistry with Prescott;

7)  Several of the other perennial WR1s are approaching their career twilight stages and are showing signs of slipping;

8)  I play in a standard league that rewards big plays, so Cooper's long TDs are especially useful compared to possession guys like Edelman and Thielen.

 

So I think that Cooper is going to play very, very well next year, and is worthy to be the number six WR off the board.  And I will draft accordingly, and you should, too.  You'll thank me.

 

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4 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Well, I did not want to do this, but here you go.

 

Oh damn man, you didn't want to use a list to argue your point about Average Amari, but I pushed you to that brink! After about 20 posts of talk about "personal ranking systems," feelings and hunches, sprinkled with personal attacks

Unfortunately, nothing on your very shaky list addresses the fact that NFL wide receivers don't suddenly "break out" in their fifth season and become top end WR1's. Which is what you have been arguing this entire time: that Amari Cooper only has 5 WR's that are better than him and is a 2nd round+ 2019 fantasy football pick.

 

Take a poll here and see how many people agree with that. Not many. Because it's wrong.

 

Also, nothing on your list refers to anything quantifiable, except his "plus NFL speed, quickness, short area burst, and route running" which I'm guessing he had when he entered the league. 

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1 hour ago, Cotton Jones said:

 

Oh damn man, you didn't want to use a list to argue your point about Average Amari, but I pushed you to that brink! After about 20 posts of talk about "personal ranking systems," feelings and hunches, sprinkled with personal attacks

Unfortunately, nothing on your very shaky list addresses the fact that NFL wide receivers don't suddenly "break out" in their fifth season and become top end WR1's. Which is what you have been arguing this entire time: that Amari Cooper only has 5 WR's that are better than him and is a 2nd round+ 2019 fantasy football pick.

 

Take a poll here and see how many people agree with that. Not many. Because it's wrong.

 

Also, nothing on your list refers to anything quantifiable, except his "plus NFL speed, quickness, short area burst, and route running" which I'm guessing he had when he entered the league. 

"last year's stats = next year's stats."

 

The sooner you break out of this mindset, the sooner you will start to have more success at fantasy football.  I wish you well on your journey.

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32 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"last year's stats = next year's stats."

 

The sooner you break out of this mindset, the sooner you will start to have more success at fantasy football.  I wish you well on your journey.

Clearly it is I who does not understand how to win at fantasy football, because I do not think Average Amari is the 6th best WR in the NFL.

 

Make that poll. Please.

 

Extravagant claims (Amari is overall WR6) require extravagant evidence, of which you have none.

Or really any evidence would be helpful. Other than your "personal ranking system" which you still have not quantified in any way. So, basically, your feelings is why Amari is overall WR6. The sooner you break out of this mindset... you get the idea.

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4 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

Clearly it is I who does not understand how to win at fantasy football, because I do not think Average Amari is the 6th best WR in the NFL.

 

Make that poll. Please.

 

Extravagant claims (Amari is overall WR6) require extravagant evidence, of which you have none.

Or really any evidence would be helpful. Other than your "personal ranking system" which you still have not quantified in any way. So, basically, your feelings is why Amari is overall WR6. The sooner you break out of this mindset... you get the idea.

 

Why did you wake up to a new day and still decide to run to these forums to hate on ol Amari Pooper?  He is finishing 2018 strong and if the Cowboys somehow find themselves in the playoffs and Cooper balls out, maybe even bc of Coop they win a playoff game will result in his draft stock in 2019 skyrocketing. 

Edited by Zak0221
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3 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

 

Why did you wake up to a new day and still decide to run to these forums to hate on ol Amari Pooper? 

I was directly addressed by SharkSwimmer and quoted. I had put a nice bow on this yesterday, on the previous page, but he kept going. So you should really be asking him this question.

Also, "Average Amari" is the preferred nickname

 

3 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

He is finishing 2018 strong and if the Cowboys somehow find themselves in the playoffs and Cooper balls out, maybe even bc of Coop they win a playoff game will result in his draft stock in 2019 skyrocketing. 

 

His draft stock is not going to skyrocket because his situation/2019 outlook is not advantageous.

Been over this fact over and over.

Many WR1's are in better situations and are actually proven.

 

 

My stance from the beginning was that Amari Cooper is a 3rd round pick, at best.

This is reasonable, realistic, and some would even say optimistic.

If you think being realistic about his 2019 value - i.e. not believing him to be the 6th best WR - is hating on him, that's on you.

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3 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

My stance from the beginning was that Amari Cooper is a 3rd round pick, at best.

This is reasonable, realistic, and some would even say optimistic.

If you think being realistic about his 2019 value - i.e. not believing him to be the 6th best WR - is hating on him, that's on you.

 

I wouldn't want him as my WR1 next year, so I agree with you on some of your points.  I think most counterpoints are about 'someone' will take him super early, but the savy owners would rather see him slide a bit. 

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18 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

Extravagant claims (Amari is overall WR6) require extravagant evidence, of which you have none.

Well we could look at the number of fantasy points Cooper has scored since joining the Cowboys, but I thought that was a so obvious that it did not need to be stated.  

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4 minutes ago, Zak0221 said:

 

I wouldn't want him as my WR1 next year, so I agree with you on some of your points.  I think most counterpoints are about 'someone' will take him super early, but the savy owners would rather see him slide a bit. 

 

First off, you've already stated that you think Average Amari is the bee's knees earlier in this thread. And your reasoning was even thinner than SharkSwimmer. 

 

Secondly this started not because "someone" said they want to take Amari early. No one cares.

"Someone" claimed that unless Amari goes in the 2nd round or earlier in your league, that it is not a competent league.

Which is a ridiculous statement.

I've already gone over this

 

 

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Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

Well we could look at the number of fantasy points Cooper has scored since joining the Cowboys, but I thought that was a so obvious that it did not need to be stated.  

You decided to wait to involve stats until 30 posts in?

I doubt that.

Bring the stats.

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16 hours ago, Cotton Jones said:

At the very beginning I said he was "third round PPR, at best."

Read some of the ridiculous stuff that's been posted about his 2019 value. Only 5 WR's are better. Second round pick. Drafted after the first round turn.

Now tell me how I'm being harsh.

Standard leagues last 4 weeks he has 78 points. Next best player is JuJu with 57 points. Since joining Dallas he is one of if not the most valuable wide receiver. Surely a small sample size, but if he finishes strong he will be a top10 receiver in almost any draft next year.

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6 minutes ago, shypri said:

Standard leagues last 4 weeks he has 78 points. Next best player is JuJu with 57 points. Since joining Dallas he is one of if not the most valuable wide receiver. Surely a small sample size, but if he finishes strong he will be a top10 receiver in almost any draft next year.

And most people, at least judging by this thread, don't agree with that.

Simply put, because Zeke Elliott is a person that exists and Dak Prescott is not good.

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4 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

And most people, at least judging by this thread, don't agree with that.

Simply put, because Zeke Elliott is a person that exists and Dak Prescott is not good.

How many games have Dak or Zeke missed since Amari joined the Cowgirls?

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6 minutes ago, shypri said:

How many games have Dak or Zeke missed since Amari joined the Cowgirls?

How many will they miss in 2019? Because that's what we have been talking about here. His 2019 value. Don't move the goalposts.

Because Zeke will have to miss a lot of 2019 games for Amari to be a top 10 WR.

And the Cowboys offense will have to become high-powered, somehow.

If you don't think situation matters in fantasy value and ADP, can't help you.

Edited by Cotton Jones
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28 minutes ago, Cotton Jones said:

How many will they miss in 2019? Because that's what we have been talking about here. His 2019 value. Don't move the goalposts.

Because Zeke will have to miss a lot of 2019 games for Amari to be a top 10 WR.

And the Cowboys offense will have to become high-powered, somehow.

If you don't think situation matters in fantasy value and ADP, can't help you.

So he is a top5 receiver with dak and zeke this year, but next year he will need zeke to miss many games to be a top10 receiver next year? :D

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