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Josh Gordon 2018 Outlook


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[We are re-opening this thread on a provisional basis, with an increased focus on keeping the discussion on topic and manageable.  This means that if your comment is not 100% germane to Josh Gordon's fantasy outlook, it is subject to removal, and you will be subject to warning and/or suspension of posting privileges.  There will be no courtesy warnings.  Please contribute to a meaningful fantasy football discussion, or take your commentary elsewhere.]

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1 hour ago, pikerbkb said:

Well that made no sense whatsoever.

 

Look, I get you're no a believer in Brissett, but a lot of people like Belechick, Parcells, McDaniels and others think Brissett is a starter level talent. I do too. 

 

Hilton had the benefit of Andrew Luck throwing to him up until last year. But even when he did he would still disappear for games at a time. 

 

 

Made no sense whatsoever?? Lol.  Anyway this is Gordons thread and I want to see him deliver on all his talent.  Not see a subpar backup him make him look average.

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Realize this doesn't go here.  But can anybody understand why the Bell thread is locked.  We can all speculate on who is gonna be Gordons QB but people speculate on which team Bell(a free agent) might end up on and it gets closed.  Makes no sense.

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New England didn't believe Brissett was a starting caliber qb so they traded him. If they did they would have kept him a bit longer especially after letting Jimmy g go....

 

 

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28 minutes ago, youngrice said:

Realize this doesn't go here.  But can anybody understand why the Bell thread is locked.  We can all speculate on who is gonna be Gordons QB but people speculate on which team Bell(a free agent) might end up on and it gets closed.  Makes no sense.

 

They probably just want someone to start a “2018” thread.

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46 minutes ago, SyNdicateZ said:

New England didn't believe Brissett was a starting caliber qb so they traded him. If they did they would have kept him a bit longer especially after letting Jimmy g go....

 

 

They traded the Brisket first?

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5 hours ago, youngrice said:

Realize this doesn't go here.  But can anybody understand why the Bell thread is locked.  We can all speculate on who is gonna be Gordons QB but people speculate on which team Bell(a free agent) might end up on and it gets closed.  Makes no sense.

 

It's 2018 now.

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5 hours ago, SyNdicateZ said:

New England didn't believe Brissett was a starting caliber qb so they traded him. If they did they would have kept him a bit longer especially after letting Jimmy g go....

 

 

 

I disagree with that view. I don't think they traded brisset because they didnt believe he was a starting caliber QB,  the fact is he was traded to be a a starting QB.

I think the context was the pats lost Edelman and needed a WR the Colts had a 1st rd wr in Dorsett and needed a better QB than Tolzien;Hoodie believed Dorsett was more valuable to him going forward than his 3rd string QB brisset and probably didnt think he would get fair value for JimmyG or had concerns about Brady playing at a high level for the entire season. So hoodie made what he thought was the best move for the Pats start of the season. 

Currently hoodies trades don't look so hot with dorsett  doing zero and Jimmy g looking like a future stud and brisset showing he can be a starting NFL QB but the pats are in the SB so no one is scrutinizing the trades anymore. Winning does that.

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2 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

It's 2018 now.

Thanks for the update on what year it is..  But guess what the 2017 season still isn't over and there were plenty of 2017 threads not locked at the time I posted.  

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1 hour ago, youngrice said:

Thanks for the update on what year it is..  But guess what the 2017 season still isn't over and there were plenty of 2017 threads not locked at the time I posted.  

 

2017 is certainly over for Le'Veon. Has been for a week and a half now.

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15 hours ago, youngrice said:

Made no sense whatsoever?? Lol.  Anyway this is Gordons thread and I want to see him deliver on all his talent.  Not see a subpar backup him make him look average.

Yea the comment about Hilton throwing the ball to himself. Clearly Brissett was a few steps down from Luck, most QBs would be.

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6 hours ago, pikerbkb said:

Yea the comment about Hilton throwing the ball to himself. Clearly Brissett was a few steps down from Luck, most QBs would be.

What comment about hilton throwing the ball to himself.  Brissett was throwing to him and it was a huge step down.  I actually think you want to see the best Gordon can do.  So once again why would you want Brissett to end up in Cle?  When he just killed the value of the WR that lead the league in receiving yards the year before.  

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8 hours ago, youngrice said:

What comment about hilton throwing the ball to himself.  Brissett was throwing to him and it was a huge step down.  I actually think you want to see the best Gordon can do.  So once again why would you want Brissett to end up in Cle?  When he just killed the value of the WR that lead the league in receiving yards the year before.  

 

 Brisset killed the value of TY? That's a bit of a stretch. The guy literally got off a plane and played with basically no prep in an entirely new offense that was not even close to the one he learned in NE; the equivalent of speaking Spanish and then having to learn Russian. There was a reason why on every play he had to check his wrist for the calls. He didnt have the luxury of 5 weeks to study the basics of the system and get practice reps in before he started like Jimmy G did in SF. TY and Luck had built up a rapport of precision route running and timing. Sorry that's not on the new QB.

As I mentioned before TY is 5'9 180 basically the size of a slot/possession wr but his talent is he can run the entire route tree; Josh Gordon is 6'4  225  and runs a full tree and is just as fast if not faster than TY and has a wider catch radius. Once again for a QB it's much easier to hit the larger target than the smaller one because there is more margin for error. So Josh can make the avg QB look like an all pro.  Brisset would be a clear upgrade to kizer on a massive scale, no question. I would gladly take him over Kizer  as the QB throwing to Josh and not be upset about it.

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1 hour ago, dashoe said:

 

 Brisset killed the value of TY? That's a bit of a stretch. The guy literally got off a plane and played with basically no prep in an entirely new offense that was not even close to the one he learned in NE; the equivalent of speaking Spanish and then having to learn Russian. There was a reason why on every play he had to check his wrist for the calls. He didnt have the luxury of 5 weeks to study the basics of the system and get practice reps in before he started like Jimmy G did in SF. TY and Luck had built up a rapport of precision route running and timing. Sorry that's not on the new QB.

As I mentioned before TY is 5'9 180 basically the size of a slot/possession wr but his talent is he can run the entire route tree; Josh Gordon is 6'4  225  and runs a full tree and is just as fast if not faster than TY and has a wider catch radius. Once again for a QB it's much easier to hit the larger target than the smaller one because there is more margin for error. So Josh can make the avg QB look like an all pro.  Brisset would be a clear upgrade to kizer on a massive scale, no question. I would gladly take him over Kizer  as the QB throwing to Josh and not be upset about it.

TY went from a WR1 to not startable.  In ppr he had 11 games under 10 points.  How is that not killing his value????  Also go look at Brisset stats he got worse as the year went on and teams knew more about him.

Yeah Kizer sucks but were not talking about Kizer since it is widely regarded they will draft or sign a free agent.  All say it again why would you hope for Brissett who just killed a top 10 WR's value over the many much better options that are out there.  Don't you want to see what Gordon can do with a real NFL QB?

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47 minutes ago, youngrice said:

TY went from a WR1 to not startable.  In ppr he had 11 games under 10 points.  How is that not killing his value????  Also go look at Brisset stats he got worse as the year went on and teams knew more about him.

Yeah Kizer sucks but were not talking about Kizer since it is widely regarded they will draft or sign a free agent.  All say it again why would you hope for Brissett who just killed a top 10 WR's value over the many much better options that are out there.  Don't you want to see what Gordon can do with a real NFL QB?

 

This touches on a broader point about fantasy football:  Some WRs are great, and some are made great by their QB.

 

Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Fitz, Brandon Marshall (I'm saying when they were all young/healthy/not retired) would put up great stats no matter who was throwing the ball, so long as the ball was thrown in their general direction.  

 

Then you can look at the Denver WRs, or TY, or Jordy, or a bunch of others - they are great with a great QB, and basically worthless without one.

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24 minutes ago, youngrice said:

TY went from a WR1 to not startable.  In ppr he had 11 games under 10 points.  How is that not killing his value????  Also go look at Brisset stats he got worse as the year went on and teams knew more about him.

Yeah Kizer sucks but were not talking about Kizer since it is widely regarded they will draft or sign a free agent.  All say it again why would you hope for Brissett who just killed a top 10 WR's value over the many much better options that are out there.  Don't you want to see what Gordon can do with a real NFL QB?

 

His value died the minute Luck didnt make it into training camp. His value died the minute the organization lied about Lucks actual progress. You do know that the backup Tolzien who had all of the camps and preseason reps couldnt effectively run the offense?  You do know brisset came in literally off the plane in wk1 and had to simultaneously learn and execute a new offensive system with no preparation and meaningful practice that other QB's had months and weeks to do?  

It's a bit much to say Brisset killed the value of TY when it was actually the Colts mgmt didnt prepare for the loss of Luck properly and didnt put any of their skills players in a position to succeed.  So instead of blaming the QB you should give more weight to the context of a situation because using your logic I could say Rodgers killed the value of Jordy by getting injured because the flip side was Hundley increased the value of davante.  How about this construct, Luck killed the value of TY by getting injured?  :lol:

Oh and by the way Brisset still managed to finish as fantasy QB #20 which makes him a QB2 for perspective Matt Ryan was Qb #15 with 228pts and brisset finished with 205pts. 

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3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

 Brisset killed the value of TY? That's a bit of a stretch. The guy literally got off a plane and played with basically no prep in an entirely new offense that was not even close to the one he learned in NE; the equivalent of speaking Spanish and then having to learn Russian. There was a reason why on every play he had to check his wrist for the calls. He didnt have the luxury of 5 weeks to study the basics of the system and get practice reps in before he started like Jimmy G did in SF. TY and Luck had built up a rapport of precision route running and timing. Sorry that's not on the new QB.

As I mentioned before TY is 5'9 180 basically the size of a slot/possession wr but his talent is he can run the entire route tree; Josh Gordon is 6'4  225  and runs a full tree and is just as fast if not faster than TY and has a wider catch radius. Once again for a QB it's much easier to hit the larger target than the smaller one because there is more margin for error. So Josh can make the avg QB look like an all pro.  Brisset would be a clear upgrade to kizer on a massive scale, no question. I would gladly take him over Kizer  as the QB throwing to Josh and not be upset about it.

 

So by that logic, the Brisset to TY connection improved as the year went on?

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1 hour ago, dashoe said:

 

His value died the minute Luck didnt make it into training camp. His value died the minute the organization lied about Lucks actual progress. You do know that the backup Tolzien who had all of the camps and preseason reps couldnt effectively run the offense?  You do know brisset came in literally off the plane in wk1 and had to simultaneously learn and execute a new offensive system with no preparation and meaningful practice that other QB's had months and weeks to do?  

 

You do realize his play progressive got worse as the year went on and teams knew how to game plan for him.   By your logic it should of been the other way around.  Any way I'm done arguing over a career backup.  

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39 minutes ago, nromn said:

 

So by that logic, the Brisset to TY connection improved as the year went on?

 

Nope doesnt work in a vacuum like that. The Colts were simply not a good team across the board same oline and defensive issues they had from previous seasons. They never prepared to play without Luck.  Brisset was never the backup, Brisset was brought in last minute to replace the actual backup in week1; which speaks volumes about the teams management.

Complete organizational failure from the offseason and that resulted in the coaches getting fired and teh new GM looking to bring in his guys. 

But of course easier to say it was the new QB that killed the value of the talented WR?  :o

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22 minutes ago, youngrice said:

You do realize his play progressive got worse as the year went on and teams knew how to game plan for him.   By your logic it should of been the other way around.  Any way I'm done arguing over a career backup.  

actually defenses learned how to gameplan the colts offense as defenses always do. . .:lol:

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52 minutes ago, dashoe said:

actually defenses learned how to gameplan the colts offense as defenses always do. . .:lol:

Colts are usually a top 10 offense that finished second to last.  Maybe just maybe it had something to do with the play of the QB.

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