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01.21.2018 - AFC Championship - Jacksonville Jaguars @ New England Patriots


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12 hours ago, weakkneeswilly said:

 

 

The referee that's closest to that play he didn't call pass interference. It was the ref on the other side of the field that called it. 

 

11 hours ago, weakkneeswilly said:

 

 

I got the wrong ref sorry. Its not PI and its not even a catchable pass. 

 

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Hot garbage.  Refs were simply not going to let Jacksonville win.  Triple ratings for a Super Bowl featuring Tom Brady as opposed to Blake Bortles?  Yeah...

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1 hour ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Hot garbage.  Refs were simply not going to let Jacksonville win.  Triple ratings for a Super Bowl featuring Tom Brady as opposed to Blake Bortles?  Yeah...

 

it's very difficult to sell ads if rating dont hit a certain benchmark and u may have to give a rebate/haircut.

 Thats why you sign the big pop star for the halftime show to give u some wattage.:lol:

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20 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

Love the tweets at the end.

 

But Twitter & the rotoworld forums is telling it is all the refs. This thorough analysis can’t true! 

I have conceded that Jacksonville didn't make the best decisions down the stretch.  But it was not Jacksonville's decision to let the Patriots mug their receivers before the ball arrived to no flags, or hold blatantly and obviously on all the Patriots "heroic" game winning drives.  The NFL loves a good story line!

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17 hours ago, Shake said:

"... As I said before blaming the refs is runner up mentality. It's weak, and it undermines just how good the Patriots are, not that a lot of fans want to ever give them credit. First it was spygate, and deflategate and now refute. ...The Jags just choked, plain and simple. They played not to lose because they didn't trust Bortles to go win the game for them. Same reason they took a knee to go in to halftime despite having 55 seconds and 2 timeouts. Playing not to lose. You can't play that way against Brady, you have to put your foot on the gas. The refs didn't decide this game. There are missed calls in all games. ... By the way that call wasn't terrible, yes it was clearly PI. ... They didn't play to win, they played not to lose, which kept Brady in the game and the GOAT did what the GOAT does....win games."

 

The quote above includes comments from subsequent posts. The officiating can indeed affect the outcome & Jacksonville was the least penalized team, defensively. I looked it up and they were tied with Arizona with the fewest PI calls (4). Four for the entire season but get called twice in this game. With respect to the "rule" itself, have you seen that same play stand before? Yes. Have you seen even less contact called? That too is true. We've all heard commentators & analysts say things like: "home cooking", "they're letting them play" or "they're calling it tight".  When it's that subjective perhaps the better question is more like; what rule?

 

Pertaining to deflategate, they have a rule that each ball is to be inflated to... perhaps they've changed things but each team brings their own balls to the party. e; There's a long history of manipulating the ball, especially with respect to kickers. During that same time we were watching a Packer game and an official ran in & stopped the offense from running a play. They said they had the wrong ball out there, one for the kicker...e; The officials examine a set of balls each team brings to them something like 30-45mins prior to kickoff. It's assumed those 12 balls are the ones out there &/or haven't been tweaked afterwards. Yeah sure, the rules.

 

With spygate, ESPN investigated independently and made all kinds of accusations. They said the Patriots would send "scouts" to the game of an upcoming opponent, provide them credentials and they would film opposing coaches signals, down & distance, groupings. They'd go into their locker room, hotel rooms & steal whatever they could (scouting reports, play sheets...). Jamming communique is another tactic. Purportedly, upon an investigation, an archive of videotapes were found in a conference room at Gillette Stadium, Goodell had them destroyed. The reader will believe what he or she wants. But ask yourself, have you ever seen coaches along the sideline using their play chart to cover their mouths while they're speaking? Call it any damn thing you want, this stuff has been going on forever! Rules are for the tools! The Patriots aren't the only or first, they're just better at it is all. e;    

 

 

 

Edited by markrc99
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12 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

I have conceded that Jacksonville didn't make the best decisions down the stretch.  But it was not Jacksonville's decision to let the Patriots mug their receivers before the ball arrived to no flags, or hold blatantly and obviously on all the Patriots "heroic" game winning drives.  The NFL loves a good story line!

 

Geeeezz this "refs love the Patriots" rhetoric is still a thing? I guess if you all cry about the questionable calls enough, you feel that they will all magically go back on the field and replay every down to determine the a new winner. 

 

Spoiler alert....It's over.

Edited by nonstopfan
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49 minutes ago, nonstopfan said:

 

Spoiler alert....It's over.

For the NFL.  Roger's unmitigated greed has finally ruined the sport I loved.  I expected this of the NBA, but not football.  But we had to prop up the dynasty for one more year...ratings = money.

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1 hour ago, markrc99 said:

 

The quote above includes comments from subsequent posts. The officiating can indeed affect the outcome & Jacksonville was the least penalized team, defensively. I looked it up and they were tied with Arizona with the fewest PI calls (4). Four for the entire season but get called twice in this game. With respect to the "rule" itself, have you seen that same play stand before? Yes. Have you seen even less contact called? That too is true. We've all heard commentators & analysts say things like: "home cooking", "they're letting them play" or "they're calling it tight".  When it's that subjective perhaps the better question is more like; what rule?

 

Pertaining to deflategate, they have a rule that each ball is to be inflated to... perhaps they've changed things but each team brings their own balls to the party. e; There's a long history of manipulating the ball, especially with respect to kickers. During that same time we were watching a Packer game and an official ran in & stopped the offense from running a play. They said they had the wrong ball out there, one for the kicker...e; The officials examine a set of balls each team brings to them something like 30-45mins prior to kickoff. It's assumed those 12 balls are the ones out there &/or haven't been tweaked afterwards. Yeah sure, the rules.

 

With spygate, ESPN investigated independently and made all kinds of accusations. They said the Patriots would send "scouts" to the game of an upcoming opponent, provide them credentials and they would film opposing coaches signals, down & distance, groupings. They'd go into their locker room, hotel rooms & steal whatever they could (scouting reports, play sheets...). Jamming communique is another tactic. Purportedly, upon an investigation, an archive of videotapes were found in a conference room at Gillette Stadium, Goodell had them destroyed. The reader will believe what he or she wants. But ask yourself, have you ever seen coaches along the sideline using their play chart to cover their mouths while they're speaking? Call it any damn thing you want, this stuff has been going on forever! Rules are for the tools! The Patriots aren't the only or first, they're just better at it is all. e;    

 

 

 

 

Are we still talking about this? Also, I appreciate the effort but when you mix and match everything I said over multiple posts it kind of takes away from the argument ya know?

 

So they were tied with the fewest PI calls? Why just PI? What about other penalties? But here's a possible explanation for that....the coach is Bill Belicheck. A coach notorious for preparation and fundamentals. Couldn't possibly be that though right?

 

BTW I dug up some info and there were 7 more teams during the season with less penalties and less penalty yardage than New England. http://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2017   

 

For all the love Jacksonville gets about not getting a lot of PI's, well they did have the 12th most defensive penalties called against them, so I guess that shows they're not as disciplined as most want to make them out to be.

 

Deflategate can be nullified by 7th grade science student. Ideal gas law. Ever been in cold weather? Cold contracts, heat expands. Do I really need to go more in to this? Because it's really been beaten to death on this forum back and forth forever. Also, ESPN made all kinds of accusations? As if ESPN is the barometer of getting things right? Hell they the TMZ of sports.

 

The problem with all this is there's just this irrational nonsense put out every time the Patriots win. It's a conspiracy, there was cheating, it's the refs, etc...No the Patriots are just better than everyone else. They're more prepared than everyone, they have better fundamentals, they make better adjustments in game than other teams and they don't typically make the mistakes that other teams do. That boils down to preparation, that is Bill Belicheck. Every time you go against New England you're playing a mastermind at coach, and an assassin at QB. But clearly it's spygate, or deflategate or refgate, or whatever other gate the haters come up with next right?

 

It all boils down to envy. It's that simple. People don't like to see someone have this much success because it brings out their insecurities. "Why's he having more success than me?" "He's not better than me, clearly he's getting helped out...conspiracy!!!". Or maybe they are just that freaking good. Or whatever believe what you want, if people need to blame refs or spies or deflated balls that's their own hangups. By the way Tom did better against Indy in the AFC title game once the balls were properly inflated wouldn't ya know? He also beat the Legion of Boom in the Super Bowl with properly inflated balls, imagine that. 

 

This game is over and the Jaguars season is over. Like wise my time in this thread is over. It's done. The Jaguars blew it. They had their chance and they played safe. That defense allowed Tom to come back from 10 points down with 9 minutes to go. The vaunted defense of the Jags got torched when it mattered most and Blake Bortles couldn't respond back. It's that simple. Anyone needing refs as an excuse or whatever other gates they want to throw out there has a runner up mentality. You play the game, there's going to be some bad calls, there's going to be some missed calls (there were missed calls that helped Jacksonville that no one wants to talk about by the way, shocker!). But at the end of the day blaming the refs is weak and it's an excuse. Take some accountability.

 

What's even more troubling to me is why people continue to watch this game if they think it's rigged? Who does that? "Oh the NFL is rigged of course the Patriots are going to win, but I'm still going to watch and then complain afterwards! Conspiracy!" What? They call New England fans delusional, but that sounds awful delusional to me but to each their own.

 

End of story. End of my time in this thread. Enjoy the SB, or don't...whichever.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

Edited by Shake
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1 hour ago, Shake said:

What's even more troubling to me is why people continue to watch this game if they think it's rigged? Who does that? "Oh the NFL is rigged of course the Patriots are going to win, but I'm still going to watch and then complain afterwards! Conspiracy!" What? They call New England fans delusional, but that sounds awful delusional to me but to each their own.

Ever dated a super hot chick who also happened to be a total head case?  Like she made you feel some kind of way, but then also would cheat on you with your friends or ghost you for days or something, then come back around?  Not always easy to go cold turkey.  The NFL is like that.  But part of the awesomeness of the NFL is that, previously, any young upstart team could knock off the legends on Any Given Sunday.  Heretofore.

 

But seeing that game Sunday, how the zebras kept the Pats in it over and over, swallowing their whistles on plays that featured some of the most obvious fouls of the entire season, I died a little bit inside.  Tom Brady the G.O.A.T., Belichick the Genius, could of and should have been humiliated in their own house, leading to a Superbowl featuring two craptacular backup-caliber QBs (regardless of who won the NFC).  But the NFL just. could. not. let. that. happen.

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1 hour ago, Shake said:

 

Are we still talking about this? Also, I appreciate the effort but when you mix and match everything I said over multiple posts it kind of takes away from the argument ya know?

 

So they were tied with the fewest PI calls? Why just PI? What about other penalties? But here's a possible explanation for that....the coach is Bill Belicheck. A coach notorious for preparation and fundamentals. Couldn't possibly be that though right?

 

BTW I dug up some info and there were 7 more teams during the season with less penalties and less penalty yardage than New England. http://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2017   

 

For all the love Jacksonville gets about not getting a lot of PI's, well they did have the 12th most defensive penalties called against them, so I guess that shows they're not as disciplined as most want to make them out to be.

 

Deflategate can be nullified by 7th grade science student. Ideal gas law. Ever been in cold weather? Cold contracts, heat expands. Do I really need to go more in to this? Because it's really been beaten to death on this forum back and forth forever. Also, ESPN made all kinds of accusations? As if ESPN is the barometer of getting things right? Hell they the TMZ of sports.

 

The problem with all this is there's just this irrational nonsense put out every time the Patriots win. It's a conspiracy, there was cheating, it's the refs, etc...No the Patriots are just better than everyone else. They're more prepared than everyone, they have better fundamentals, they make better adjustments in game than other teams and they don't typically make the mistakes that other teams do. That boils down to preparation, that is Bill Belicheck. Every time you go against New England you're playing a mastermind at coach, and an assassin at QB. But clearly it's spygate, or deflategate or refgate, or whatever other gate the haters come up with next right?

 

It all boils down to envy. It's that simple. People don't like to see someone have this much success because it brings out their insecurities. "Why's he having more success than me?" "He's not better than me, clearly he's getting helped out...conspiracy!!!". Or maybe they are just that freaking good. Or whatever believe what you want, if people need to blame refs or spies or deflated balls that's their own hangups. By the way Tom did better against Indy in the AFC title game once the balls were properly inflated wouldn't ya know? He also beat the Legion of Boom in the Super Bowl with properly inflated balls, imagine that. 

 

This game is over and the Jaguars season is over. Like wise my time in this thread is over. It's done. The Jaguars blew it. They had their chance and they played safe. That defense allowed Tom to come back from 10 points down with 9 minutes to go. The vaunted defense of the Jags got torched when it mattered most and Blake Bortles couldn't respond back. It's that simple. Anyone needing refs as an excuse or whatever other gates they want to throw out there has a runner up mentality. You play the game, there's going to be some bad calls, there's going to be some missed calls (there were missed calls that helped Jacksonville that no one wants to talk about by the way, shocker!). But at the end of the day blaming the refs is weak and it's an excuse. Take some accountability.

 

What's even more troubling to me is why people continue to watch this game if they think it's rigged? Who does that? "Oh the NFL is rigged of course the Patriots are going to win, but I'm still going to watch and then complain afterwards! Conspiracy!" What? They call New England fans delusional, but that sounds awful delusional to me but to each their own.

 

End of story. End of my time in this thread. Enjoy the SB, or don't...whichever.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

 

Nice post Shake. Let them all argue amongst themselves. Not worth it.

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3 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

Ever dated a super hot chick who also happened to be a total head case?  Like she made you feel some kind of way, but then also would cheat on you with your friends or ghost you for days or something, then come back around?  

 

Sorry, but no.  I'm freaking awesome.

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4 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

"Nice post Shake. ..."

 

I must have missed it, which part exactly? You found his depiction of others, high end? I sourced my premise (JAX defenders,  David Carr & Tony Romo) that the switch to zone coverage in the 2nd half was what allowed Brady to exploit them. They also became very conservative & often predictable offensively, giving up the balance they had. Those decisions to go away from what got them the lead, the disparity in penalties & their own unforced errors are what cost them the game. Instead of saying everything's a conspiracy why not refute the argument? Better still, why not elaborate on the "adjustments" the Patriots made?      

 

With respect to the penalties, deflategate & spygate, again, these are league-wide issues, not anything exclusive to the Patriots. Although, they do seem to be at the center of such controversy more than any other team. If a team can't block or cover they're going to commit penalties which can lead to a disparity in any given game. When the violation is obvious, there's nothing more to it! But with such a broad interpretation of the rules, it's dubious when calls that are subjective render a lopsided result. Here we have JAX players, other players, a former player (Boomer Esiason), and much more in the literature. Take away the Bouye interference & the quick whistle on the Jack strip & recovery & you likely have a different result! 

 

No one ever said that Brady couldn't throw a "properly" inflated ball. That he performed well in the 2nd half of that game doesn't dispute that he has a preference. It used to be that the home team provided the game balls. Brady & Peyton Manning advocated for each team to provide their own, for the expressed purpose of using balls that best suited them! The league determined that they [NE] in fact had a practice of deflating balls after inspection. I believe they inflate & scrub the balls to their preference because every team does. Biting cold temps makes the ball like a block of ice, cold air is denser air. The temp at game time was in the low 50s, which isn't very cold. Further, I would think the balls are kept warm & dry, in an equipment chest, something, when the opponent has the ball. The league doesn't mandate the balls sit out in the open air or that they're inflated out there or anything to ensure a certain psi given said conditions.  

 

They inspect and shortly before game time hand them back to the ball crews. On occasion, there's a more thorough process. That there are balls specifically designated for the kicking game, solely meant to deter tampering, ..I suppose. I'm not sure what sort of doctoring would be unacceptable & yet, undetectable upon inspection with the regular game balls? And the ball crew still ends up with them. Cheating, spying, that stuff has been a part of the game since the beginning.  

 

 

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On 1/23/2018 at 5:21 PM, SharkSwimmer said:

Ever dated a super hot chick who also happened to be a total head case?  Like she made you feel some kind of way, but then also would cheat on you with your friends or ghost you for days or something, then come back around?  Not always easy to go cold turkey.  The NFL is like that.  But part of the awesomeness of the NFL is that, previously, any young upstart team could knock off the legends on Any Given Sunday.  Heretofore.

 

But seeing that game Sunday, how the zebras kept the Pats in it over and over, swallowing their whistles on plays that featured some of the most obvious fouls of the entire season, I died a little bit inside.  Tom Brady the G.O.A.T., Belichick the Genius, could of and should have been humiliated in their own house, leading to a Superbowl featuring two craptacular backup-caliber QBs (regardless of who won the NFC).  But the NFL just. could. not. let. that. happen.

I really like the analogy, but your argument disintegrates into nothingness extremely quickly. You are relying on voodoo woowooism's. How exactly can the NFL rig matches?

 

Sure, you can instruct the refs to be biased, or even be in their ear and make them execute a certain call. But where this falls apart is the fact that these are still team games, being played live and for real. That means anything can happen. The NFL can give the Pats 10 PI's in one game but that doesn't guarantee anything. The refs can set up the Jags for the game winner, and Bortles can and probably would flub the handoff cause he sucks.

 

 

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