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8 minutes ago, devaster said:

That doesn't account for people that cut their cable. I haven't had cable in years. And I know it is a growing trend. Streaming TV services are much more appealing because of price, customization, and variety.

 

Yep.  I wonder how the NFL numbers compare to TV as a whole. 

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6 hours ago, weakkneeswilly said:

 

Adding another 2.6 million viewers via NBCSports.com, the NBC Sports app, NBC.com TV Everywhere, Universo, En Vivo app, NFL.com, NFL Mobile from Verizon, the Yahoo Sports app, and go90, the Comcast-owned network says its absolute total viewership of 106 million.

 

Thanks.   

 

My guess is this number is still a little low as it doesn't take into account Sling.

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2 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Thanks.   

 

My guess is this number is still a little low as it doesn't take into account Sling.

I use Sling. I believe the viewership of the game was also available through PSVue, Youtube, and plenty of other streaming services. Streaming services are a dime a dozen now.

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I think there's a lot more to looking at the worth of the product then viewership. People are so inundated with entertainment options nowadays, that you're going to see a decline just because of variety, add in the ability to stream and it adds even more nuance. For myself, I haven't watched a Superbowl at home since I turned 21 and I haven't seen a decline in how busy bars get for the game.

 

The NFL just sold TNF for an amount too high for me to believe the product is suffering

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2 hours ago, devaster said:

Nothing was getting called on the hail mary. Players on both teams were all over each other. Gronk pushed off. Arms were being grabbed on both sides. OPI/DPI is never getting called on a hail mary. I always wonder if throwing deep to 1on1 coverage would be a better option and make the play for the DPI. Compare the success rate to DPI vs a hail mary. I bet DPI has a better chance for success. Which puts the ball at the one yard line for one play to score.

 

Gronk couldn’t believe he didn’t get another  bailout call from the ref on the last play. The Kraft box looked on in disbelief as well. It was beautiful..

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On 2/4/2018 at 10:57 PM, Shake said:

"Guess those refs weren't in the Patriots pockets after all, what do ya know? Everyone was so busy making excuses for other teams (Jacksonville) bad play calling and Philly came out and handled their business. I was super impressed with Foles and the play calling for the Eagles. The Eagles did what Jacksonville did not...play to win." 

 

On 2/4/2018 at 11:00 PM, MrPositive said:

"They never were lol. People just really enjoy seeing a perennial winner lose. It reflects better with their lives. It was all a set up so the Patriots would get as few calls as possible in this game, and it worked haha"

 

That Jacksonville laid down was part of the counterargument. If memory serves, an explanation was sought as to why Jacksonville went to more zone coverage in the 2nd half when leading on the scoreboard. Can either of you answer that now? I sourced the entire argument, including JAX players, current & former players all questioning the officiating in that game. The argument was never whether home cooking or the often inexplicable interpretation of the rules favored only New England. Nor do horrible calls that went against the Patriots serve as some sort of balancing. That said and already noted, while the more profile plays went against them, Patriot defenders got away at least their share of interference calls. Here's part of a conversation last night from the NFL Network:  

 

David Carr: “… he [Doug Pederson] continued to be aggressive at all times during this game & never took his foot off the gas pedal. You heard him talk earlier in the week or you heard players talk about the fact that when teams lose to the Patriots because they back off a little bit, they never backed off, it was so fantastic… Nick was just out there ripping the football…played a flawless game…”

Dan Hellie: "One of the things we didn’t see that we saw with Tom Brady is that he had guys running wide open, Foles was making all those tight window throws, seemed like the whole game."  
David Carr: “They made him make tight window throws based on their scheme, wanted to play a little more man coverage, so it was going to be on Nick…”

 

So even the Eagles HC is cited on the subject of teams laying down. There were a number of times the Eagles could've intercepted Brady. The one to Cooks, he breaks stride and even comes back for it just a bit. You can get caught doing that when your receivers aren't going to win situations that are contested. The one to Chris Hogan was one of several rainbow ducks that had there been a defender somewhat in proximity it would've likely been picked. Stuff that's underthrown and hanging, I don't know. Fortunately for them Hogan was completely uncovered. Here are four articles in chronological order beginning week 1 of this past year:    
 

Quote

 

"The Patriots came out firing against the Chiefs and looked to go deep early and often. However, a whole lot of passes failed to hit home. On the night, Brady completed 16 of 36 pass attempts for 270 yards, no touchdowns and a 70.6 QB rating. Much of that had to do with tight coverage from Kansas City's defense. For a lot of the night, Tom Brady had trouble finding an open receiver. Brady completed fewer than half his passes on the night and struggled with overthrows on his receivers going downfield. ... While the passing game had its issues, it wasn't on account of the blocking. Brady was barely touched Thursday night as the offensive line kept the Chiefs pass rush off him." http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2017/09/new_england_patriots_vs_kansas_5.html

 

"What’s with NFL defenses and their refusal to cover Chris Hogan? The New England Patriots wide receiver led the NFL in yards per catch last season, as he often was left wide open for huge plays. Well, it appears that version of Hogan is back for 2017. The veteran wideout hauled in two touchdown passes in the first half of Sunday’s game against the Houston Texans at Gillette Stadium — and on both scores, there wasn’t a defender in sight." https://nesn.com/2017/09/watch-patriots-chris-hogan-get-left-wide-open-again-for-two-td-catches/

 

"Miami beat up Tom Brady every chance it got on Monday night. ... As a result, the Patriots struggled mightily on third down, converting none of their 11 attempts. ... Brady's throws were noticeably errant -- he under threw Brandin Cooks on both of his interceptions -- and constant pressure brought by Ndamukong Suh, Jordan Phillips and a blitzing T.J. McDonald against a Pats O-line missing its starting right tackle, Marcus Cannon... the Dolphins successfully executed a tried and true formula: Hit Brady early, and hit him often." http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000891769/article/jay-cutler-outdoes-tom-brady-as-dolphins-beat-patriots

 

"... NBC's Rodney Harrison said his former teammate Brady "turns into an average quarterback" under pressure." http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/zach-ertz-corey-clement-instant-replay-catch-rule-eagles-patriots-super-bowl-52/1wb96u9t6bo3h1jyol0n0zhcaf

 

 

What does any of this mean, that's true of a lot of QBs. Right, but most QBs aren't considered to be the greatest of all time. When the production isn't vs air, does it even happen? Seems as though if defenses manage something, pressure him or cover his receivers & force his ability to create or extend plays, the result is epic fail! Brady is just an over-glorified spot-shooter, a system joe. No? Fine, then what makes him so great? e;  

 

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The Pats win so much because they out coach and out-scheme their opponents so often.  The reason they can do that is because they prepare game plans very well and make half-time adjustments very well.  The reason they can prepare those game plans and execute those half-time adjustments so well is that they have superior information on their opponents and analyze that information in excellent fashion.  In the past, New England has cheated to obtain that information.  It is unknown how the Pats are currently collecting and analyzing information.  All these factors contribute to most of the country despising, but grudgingly respecting, this team.

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4 minutes ago, SharkSwimmer said:

The Pats win so much because they out coach and out-scheme their opponents so often.  The reason they can do that is because they prepare game plans very well and make half-time adjustments very well.  The reason they can prepare those game plans and execute those half-time adjustments so well is that they have superior information on their opponents and analyze that information in excellent fashion.  In the past, New England has cheated to obtain that information.  It is unknown how the Pats are currently collecting and analyzing information.  All these factors contribute to most of the country despising, but grudgingly respecting, this team.

 

 

they have a couple of data analytic guys on staff. 

http://onlinedsa.merrimack.edu/new-england-patriots-data-analytics/

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9 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

they have a couple of data analytic guys on staff. 

http://onlinedsa.merrimack.edu/new-england-patriots-data-analytics/

New England also seems pretty adept at deciphering their various opponent's defensive signals.

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Guys, the Super  Bowl is over. The Pats lost. Time to rub one out and let your hard-on for hating the Pats go for at least another 6 months. They'll be plenty of beat downs to make excuses for and conspiracies to put your tinfoil hat on for next year.

 

0.jpg

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, markrc99 said:

 

 

That Jacksonville laid down was part of the counterargument. If memory serves, an explanation was sought as to why Jacksonville went to more zone coverage in the 2nd half when leading on the scoreboard. Can either of you answer that now? I sourced the entire argument, including JAX players, current & former players all questioning the officiating in that game. The argument was never whether home cooking or the often inexplicable interpretation of the rules favored only New England. Nor do horrible calls that went against the Patriots serve as some sort of balancing. That said and already noted, while the more profile plays went against them, Patriot defenders got away at least their share of interference calls. Here's part of a conversation last night from the NFL Network:  

 

David Carr: “… he [Doug Pederson] continued to be aggressive at all times during this game & never took his foot off the gas pedal. You heard him talk earlier in the week or you heard players talk about the fact that when teams lose to the Patriots because they back off a little bit, they never backed off, it was so fantastic… Nick was just out there ripping the football…played a flawless game…”

Dan Hellie: "One of the things we didn’t see that we saw with Tom Brady is that he had guys running wide open, Foles was making all those tight window throws, seemed like the whole game."  
David Carr: “They made him make tight window throws based on their scheme, wanted to play a little more man coverage, so it was going to be on Nick…”

 

So even the Eagles HC is cited on the subject of teams laying down. There were a number of times the Eagles could've intercepted Brady. The one to Cooks, he breaks stride and even comes back for it just a bit. You can get caught doing that when your receivers aren't going to win situations that are contested. The one to Chris Hogan was one of several rainbow ducks that had there been a defender somewhat in proximity it would've likely been picked. Stuff that's underthrown and hanging, I don't know. Fortunately for them Hogan was completely uncovered. Here are four articles in chronological order beginning week 1 of this past year:    
 

 

What does any of this mean, that's true of a lot of QBs. Right, but most QBs aren't considered to be the greatest of all time. When the production isn't vs air, does it even happen? Seems as though if defenses manage something, pressure him or cover his receivers & force his ability to create or extend plays, the result is epic fail! Brady is just an over-glorified spot-shooter, a system joe. No? Fine, then what makes him so great? e;  

 

 

Didn't Brady just throw for 500 yards? 

 

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Some talk about Eagles vs Falcons and how 'staying aggressive' doesn't always work.

 

There's a difference between 'staying aggressive' and 'being stupid'.  Falcons completely abandoned the run in SBLI, which is stupid.  Pederson remained balanced all game, and yes, was aggressive on 4th and manageable.  If you're in field goal range with a chance to ice the game, 'aggressive' might be a play action or screen pass; stupid is a 7 step drop.

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1 hour ago, Lord_Varys said:

Some talk about Eagles vs Falcons and how 'staying aggressive' doesn't always work.

 

There's a difference between 'staying aggressive' and 'being stupid'.  Falcons completely abandoned the run in SBLI, which is stupid.  Pederson remained balanced all game, and yes, was aggressive on 4th and manageable.  If you're in field goal range with a chance to ice the game, 'aggressive' might be a play action or screen pass; stupid is a 7 step drop.

 

Yes. 

 

They were completely different scenarios also.  

 

Falcons were up 28-3.  At that point the clock is your friend and snapping the ball with more than 7 seconds on the play clock is dumb.  They continued to do so. 

 

That's before even going into simply running the ball after the sick Julio catch and kicking a field goal.

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3 hours ago, SharkSwimmer said:

"The Pats win so much because they out coach and out-scheme their opponents so often.  The reason they can do that is because they prepare game plans very well and make half-time adjustments very well.  The reason ... is that they have superior information on their opponents ... In the past, New England has cheated to obtain that information.  It is unknown how the Pats are currently collecting and analyzing information. ... New England also seems pretty adept at deciphering their various opponent's defensive signals." 

 

I agree with a lot of what you have here but that's what was widely reported after the Jacksonville game, when in fact the Jags folded! They weren't out-schemed, they abandoned what was working, which isn't the same thing. Accordingly, they're not the first team to roll over. A team's scheme is what they're running, based on a number of variables. We know what they were caught doing, what was then investigated and determined. Had nothing to do with them being geniuses, they sought their opponents signals, game script & whatever else they could get their hands on. That we don't know what or to the extent they're attaining that type of critical information doesn't change the fact that they're still in the right play far more often than not.      

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6 minutes ago, markrc99 said:

 

I agree with a lot of what you have here but that's what was widely reported after the Jacksonville game, when in fact the Jags folded! They weren't out-schemed, they abandoned what was working, which isn't the same thing. Accordingly, they're not the first team to roll over. A team's scheme is what they're running, based on a number of variables. We know what they were caught doing, what was then investigated and determined. Had nothing to do with them being geniuses, they sought their opponents signals, game script & whatever else they could get their hands on. That we don't know what or to the extent they're attaining that type of critical information doesn't change the fact that they're still in the right play far more often than not.      

You also make it sound like NE didn't adjust after half-time against the Jags. They did. BB is the greatest at it. Pederson has also shown he is great at it. Maybe some of the formations the Patriots were using had the Jags playing into zone schemes. Maybe the Jags saw something they thought they could attack, but failed. Losing Gronk in the 2nd quarter didn't help the Patriots either. Maybe that is why the Jags switched more to zone schemes. And the Patriots made adjustments after losing Gronk as well. The end result was the Patriots were better.

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2 hours ago, youngrice said:

No kidding.  Its amazing to me that some people are blaming Brady for the loss.  The defense couldn't get off the field and gave up 41 points.  

 

Those people are haters plain and simple. Haters don't bother with facts, they'll mold and twist anything to fit the narrative they want. 

 

It's sad that people are such malcontents that they spend more time hating on Tom Brady than they do rooting for their own teams. 

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5 hours ago, devaster said:

You also make it sound like NE didn't adjust after half-time against the Jags. They did. BB is the greatest at it. Pederson has also shown he is great at it. Maybe some of the formations the Patriots were using had the Jags playing into zone schemes. Maybe the Jags saw something they thought they could attack, but failed. Losing Gronk in the 2nd quarter didn't help the Patriots either. Maybe that is why the Jags switched more to zone schemes. And the Patriots made adjustments after losing Gronk as well. The end result was the Patriots were better.

 

Conversation I had the week before the Jax NE game.

 

Me - Jax has the personnel to shut down NE.  They just play too much zone.  Brady will eat that alive but they have the personnel.  Maybe they'll adjust...

 

Friend- 96, have you seen anything out of DC Wash this season that tells you he will adjust?  Didn't you tell me Jimmy G tore their zone apart and never adjusted?

 

Me - ...

 

Jax got a gift once Gronk went down.  They should have employed the Miami gameplan which was pure man to man regardless of where the wrs were deployed.  Instead they sat in their cover 3 mostly and the middle of the field got eaten up.  Look at the dola plays...wr getting passed off.  

 

They should have started in pure man but they ESPECIALLY should have gone to it when Gronk went down.

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6 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

I agree with a lot of what you have here but that's what was widely reported after the Jacksonville game, when in fact the Jags folded! They weren't out-schemed, they abandoned what was working, which isn't the same thing. Accordingly, they're not the first team to roll over. A team's scheme is what they're running, based on a number of variables. We know what they were caught doing, what was then investigated and determined. Had nothing to do with them being geniuses, they sought their opponents signals, game script & whatever else they could get their hands on. That we don't know what or to the extent they're attaining that type of critical information doesn't change the fact that they're still in the right play far more often than not.      

 

Jax offensively in the second half - they didn't call a play action pass on first down or from a run heavy formation despite NE clearly selling out at that point to stop fournette.  It was cowardly play calling at it's finest. 

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10 hours ago, fletch44 said:

Guys, the Super  Bowl is over. The Pats lost. Time to rub one out and let your hard-on for hating the Pats go for at least another 6 months. They'll be plenty of beat downs to make excuses for and conspiracies to put your tinfoil hat on for next year.

 

0.jpg

 

 

 

 

Tbh this thread has more posts by Patriot fans pointing out how everyone hates them and that people who dislike their team are no life losers than actual posts hating the Patriots.

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15 hours ago, markrc99 said:

 

 

That Jacksonville laid down was part of the counterargument. If memory serves, an explanation was sought as to why Jacksonville went to more zone coverage in the 2nd half when leading on the scoreboard. Can either of you answer that now? I sourced the entire argument, including JAX players, current & former players all questioning the officiating in that game. The argument was never whether home cooking or the often inexplicable interpretation of the rules favored only New England. Nor do horrible calls that went against the Patriots serve as some sort of balancing. That said and already noted, while the more profile plays went against them, Patriot defenders got away at least their share of interference calls. Here's part of a conversation last night from the NFL Network:  

 

David Carr: “… he [Doug Pederson] continued to be aggressive at all times during this game & never took his foot off the gas pedal. You heard him talk earlier in the week or you heard players talk about the fact that when teams lose to the Patriots because they back off a little bit, they never backed off, it was so fantastic… Nick was just out there ripping the football…played a flawless game…”

Dan Hellie: "One of the things we didn’t see that we saw with Tom Brady is that he had guys running wide open, Foles was making all those tight window throws, seemed like the whole game."  
David Carr: “They made him make tight window throws based on their scheme, wanted to play a little more man coverage, so it was going to be on Nick…”

 

So even the Eagles HC is cited on the subject of teams laying down. There were a number of times the Eagles could've intercepted Brady. The one to Cooks, he breaks stride and even comes back for it just a bit. You can get caught doing that when your receivers aren't going to win situations that are contested. The one to Chris Hogan was one of several rainbow ducks that had there been a defender somewhat in proximity it would've likely been picked. Stuff that's underthrown and hanging, I don't know. Fortunately for them Hogan was completely uncovered. Here are four articles in chronological order beginning week 1 of this past year:    
 

 

What does any of this mean, that's true of a lot of QBs. Right, but most QBs aren't considered to be the greatest of all time. When the production isn't vs air, does it even happen? Seems as though if defenses manage something, pressure him or cover his receivers & force his ability to create or extend plays, the result is epic fail! Brady is just an over-glorified spot-shooter, a system joe. No? Fine, then what makes him so great? e;  

 

 

It was no doubt a brilliant coaching job by Dougy P. He went toe to toe with The greatest coach ever and knocked him out. He stayed aggressive the entire time and never waivered from his game plan. They had no answers. This is exactly what he was doing all year. He should have been Coach of the year hands down! 

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14 hours ago, devaster said:

"You also make it sound like NE didn't adjust after half-time against the Jags. They did. BB is the greatest at it. ... Maybe some of the formations the Patriots were using had the Jags playing into zone schemes. Maybe the Jags saw something they thought they could attack, but failed. ... The end result was the Patriots were better."

 

You've got a lot of maybes going on, suggesting that you don't know for sure, any more than the rest of us. I looked for a highlight reel of the game and found one that features the plays Brandin Cooks made. I've only reviewed the first couple plays, so if there's something back there that someone finds, I'll be happy to respond. 

 

1st Play:  This appears to be the 2nd play of the game with the Patriots in an empty set on a 2nd & 5. If you look more closely they're in their base grouping, same with Jacksonville defensively. On the perimeter is Dion Lewis & the FB on the near side. Hogan & Cooks are aligned in the slot on the either side. '96 mentions the frequency in which JAX ran zone and this is an attempt to exploit a favorable matchup (Cooks v Telvin Smith). This concept isn't anything new or special nor is the reason it worked. The objective was obvious, as was Cooks the primary on this play. Yet, the JAX defenders acted like they were unsure of themselves. They knew it was a pass, why didn't they come out of what they were in? Where's the defensive audible, they didn't recognize Smith would need some help? There's more here, but I want to go to the 2nd one.

 

2nd Play: Here's another base set grouping in a standard alignment, run strong, both WRs weak side. JAX cheats eight to take away the strong side run, with Ramsey again covering nobody. This is a max-protect, 2-WR pattern, a 10 yard out run by Cooks. The respect Bouye affords him leaves the reception uncontested. Church or another safety is back there somewhere, although so far back that he never comes into view. For me, when the corner has help, you want to see him play more aggressively than that, unless he's completely overmatched. Interesting I think is that the video picks up this play right as Brady steps under center to take the snap. Meaning, it doesn't appear that he dials out to take advantage of the soft corner. So they either knew precisely what was there, free to take or they got lucky...which? Jacksonville was defending what wasn't coming, yet for them, no clue they were in the wrong alignment. You & others perhaps see the genius, the greatness. To me, these two plays say more about the opposition.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdkUr4ryLck

       

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