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Kareem Hunt 2018 Outlook


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1 minute ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

I’m going to go out of my way to say, as a practicing attorney and non-Hunt owner, that the NFL is an absolute joke. There is no due process. Prosecutors would be laughed out of criminal court for attempting to charge Hunt with ANYTHING. This is a massive massive stretch for even a civil assault. Absolutely no surprise that no charges were filed.

 

In America, an “attempt” is criminalized. But none of you with any confidence can say what Hunt was “attempting” to do. Would he have pushed her on the ground? Brutally beaten her? Got up to her face and yelled at her? Restrained her and called the police for her actual assault on him (she punches him in the face first). The most popular narrative is “oh my goodness imagine if this monster wasn’t restrained.” Cases aren’t won with your imagination. Criminal Attempts (attempted murdered or battery) are charged only when someone tries to do something and misses. If you shoot someone and miss. If you throw a punch at someone and miss. 

 

Which brings me to my rant about the NFL. Most professional sports leagues have intricate appeal and hearing processes to protect due process rights. The NFL is run like a dictatorship. Selective outrage tells us what we care about on a given day. Heck, even if the NFL gave Hunt a hearing to defend himself, by a meager preponderance by of the evidence standard, I would be satisfied. But that video is not enough on its face to warrant this type of response.

 

And I’ll say something here that won’t get positive feedback, but I’ve wondered because of my experience. Are the folks who are outraged by that video and calling it a brutal beating truly folks who would be afraid if Hunt were not the “angry black man?” If he was white, and he was held back as Hunt was, would people just view it as two drunk idiots yelling and screaming? 

 

Maybe a hearing with process finds Hunt culpable even on a more likely than not standard that he acted in a fashion unbecoming of an NFL player or whatever the heck that label is called these days. Maybe. Maybe he was right and he can call witnesses, maybe that girl herself, that corroborates that she said those terrible racial slurs that set him off. Maybe that mitigates some of it. But it’s sad how reactively all parties were. Completely and totally reactive. I’m not excusing Hunt here. But that young lady was not criminally assaulted. Not in the United States. That nudge with his foot absolutely isn’t enough. This isn’t Ray Rice, black and white, no questions asked.

 

Hunt is a fool, but this country legislates for fools. No one is perfect. And this country does not criminalize what he did. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be suspended or lose his job. But to lose his job/career possibly without a hearing, in a reactive fashion just so the NFL can PRETEND to care about women bugs me. They weren’t this reactive when Irsay for popped for driving under the influence of oxy, endangering actually human beings.

 

Sanctimonious joke all around.

The NFL is a joke. I have no doubt in my mind that if TMZ could get a video then the mighty NFL could. But I don’t think it is a criminal offense. She was manning up to him and she got what she got. However, he’s still an idiot for fighting a woman, even though she looked like the aggressor. His lady there should have stepped in and handled it. We all know men can’t touch women.

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8 minutes ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

I’m going to go out of my way to say, as a practicing attorney and non-Hunt owner, that the NFL is an absolute joke. There is no due process. Prosecutors would be laughed out of criminal court for attempting to charge Hunt with ANYTHING. This is a massive massive stretch for even a civil assault. Absolutely no surprise that no charges were filed.

 

In America, an “attempt” is criminalized. But none of you with any confidence can say what Hunt was “attempting” to do. Would he have pushed her on the ground? Brutally beaten her? Got up to her face and yelled at her? Restrained her and called the police for her actual assault on him (she punches him in the face first). The most popular narrative is “oh my goodness imagine if this monster wasn’t restrained.” Cases aren’t won with your imagination. Criminal Attempts (attempted murdered or battery) are charged only when someone tries to do something and misses. If you shoot someone and miss. If you throw a punch at someone and miss. 

 

Which brings me to my rant about the NFL. Most professional sports leagues have intricate appeal and hearing processes to protect due process rights. The NFL is run like a dictatorship. Selective outrage tells us what we care about on a given day. Heck, even if the NFL gave Hunt a hearing to defend himself, by a meager preponderance by of the evidence standard, I would be satisfied. But that video is not enough on its face to warrant this type of response.

 

And I’ll say something here that won’t get positive feedback, but I’ve wondered because of my experience. Are the folks who are outraged by that video and calling it a brutal beating truly folks who would be afraid if Hunt were not the “angry black man?” If he was white, and he was held back as Hunt was, would people just view it as two drunk idiots yelling and screaming? 

 

Maybe a hearing with process finds Hunt culpable even on a more likely than not standard that he acted in a fashion unbecoming of an NFL player or whatever the heck that label is called these days. Maybe. Maybe he was right and he can call witnesses, maybe that girl herself, that corroborates that she said those terrible racial slurs that set him off. Maybe that mitigates some of it. But it’s sad how reactively all parties were. Completely and totally reactive. I’m not excusing Hunt here. But that young lady was not criminally assaulted. Not in the United States. That nudge with his foot absolutely isn’t enough. This isn’t Ray Rice, black and white, no questions asked.

 

Hunt is a fool, but this country legislates for fools. No one is perfect. And this country does not criminalize what he did. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be suspended or lose his job. But to lose his job/career possibly without a hearing, in a reactive fashion just so the NFL can PRETEND to care about women bugs me. They weren’t this reactive when Irsay for popped for driving under the influence of oxy, endangering actually human beings.

 

Sanctimonious joke all around.

yeah great, now there's a January incident where he and a couple of his best buds kicked a man unconscious and the incident from July at the resort where he wanted to start punching another guy lord knows why but I'm thinking hes just a thug in disguise as a football player.

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Just now, FitzMagic said:

The NFL is a joke. I have no doubt in my mind that if TMZ could get a video then the mighty NFL could. But I don’t think it is a criminal offense. She was manning up to him and she got what she got. However, he’s still an idiot for fighting a woman, even though she looked like the aggressor. His lady there should have stepped in and handled it. We all know men can’t touch women.

 

Spekaing strictly legally, and having helped criminal defendants, albeit pro bono, I can tell you what the attorneys who do this every day look for and criminally this is an absolute joke. That is why he was not charged.

 

Lost in all of this is that Kareem Hunt was not the aggressor. People are killing him because they are imagining what he would have done if he were alone in the hallway with that girl. But who knows? Maybe he’s just the type to act all big and strong around friends. Maybe if he wasn’t around others he would’ve just let it go. Who knows? That’s why the law doesn’t punish what people can divine from their imaginations. 

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1 minute ago, Krambone said:

yeah great, now there's a January incident where he and a couple of his best buds kicked a man unconscious and the incident from July at the resort where he wanted to start punching another guy lord knows why but I'm thinking hes just a thug in disguise as a football player.

Same here. The chickens have come home to roost on this mfer.

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1 minute ago, Krambone said:

yeah great, now there's a January incident where he and a couple of his best buds kicked a man unconscious and the incident from July at the resort where he wanted to start punching another guy lord knows why but I'm thinking hes just a thug in disguise as a football player.

 

Yea, I’m not in the business of jumping to conclusions without evidence. Before you deny someone of their life, liberty, or property, you must accord them due process. The burden isn’t on Hunt. It’s on all of Hunt’s accusers to prove it. Falling into the trap of assuming he’s guilty for things is un-American. You don’t know the circumstances of either alleged “assault.”

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2 minutes ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

 

Yea, I’m not in the business of jumping to conclusions without evidence. Before you deny someone of their life, liberty, or property, you must accord them due process. The burden isn’t on Hunt. It’s on all of Hunt’s accusers to prove it. Falling into the trap of assuming he’s guilty for things is un-American. You don’t know the circumstances of either alleged “assault.”

 

This is exactly why I hate the Commissioner's exempt crap. We will suspend you until we are done with investigation. But until then, we will not give you time served on that suspension. Complete crap...

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2 minutes ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

 

Yea, I’m not in the business of jumping to conclusions without evidence. Before you deny someone of their life, liberty, or property, you must accord them due process. The burden isn’t on Hunt. It’s on all of Hunt’s accusers to prove it. Falling into the trap of assuming he’s guilty for things is un-American. You don’t know the circumstances of either alleged “assault.”

go ahead and hire him and get what you deserve for trusting him not to punch your clients.  I'm sure there's another tidbit coming out soon.  he sounds exactly like the guy who we think he is.

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Just now, WaiverLooter said:

 

This is exactly why I hate the Commissioner's exempt crap. We will suspend you until we are done with investigation. But until then, we will not give you time served on that suspension. Complete crap...

 

It’s why the NFL is constantly sued over this crap. Think what you want about the violators, but the system is just an awful system. Someone can deny an innocent man his paycheck without a hearing. Now imagine if that man ends up innocent. And you ruin his life. His career. His name.

 

Just awful. Anyone who blindly believes accusations without process, and just read this thread to curate a list, will immediately agree with authority—even if that authority is the most corrupt of them all: The National Football League.

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Just now, Krambone said:

go ahead and hire him and get what you deserve for trusting him not to punch your clients.  I'm sure there's another tidbit coming out soon.  he sounds exactly like the guy who we think he is.

 

You’re making my point, really. You and many others. I’m sure you only believe certain accusations about certain people you’re predisposed to not liking. 

 

It’s funny because the Hunt owner in my league is a pretty big Trump supporter! And he believes every single one of the accusations against Hunt. Yet, when you point out that there are plenty of videos, sworn affidavits, and other evidence about the President, evidence that floors the Hunt evidence, he falls silent.

 

It’s never good to consider anyone guilty without due process. Period. For all you know that January incident didn’t involve him at all.

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7 minutes ago, WaiverLooter said:

 

This is exactly why I hate the Commissioner's exempt crap. We will suspend you until we are done with investigation. But until then, we will not give you time served on that suspension. Complete crap...

The upside is he still gets a paycheck while on the list. And being that he’s on his rookie deal is still important since he’s likely going to be out for at least 8 games, probably more.

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25 minutes ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

I’m going to go out of my way to say, as a practicing attorney and non-Hunt owner, that the NFL is an absolute joke. There is no due process. Prosecutors would be laughed out of criminal court for attempting to charge Hunt with ANYTHING. This is a massive massive stretch for even a civil assault. Absolutely no surprise that no charges were filed.

 

In America, an “attempt” is criminalized. But none of you with any confidence can say what Hunt was “attempting” to do. Would he have pushed her on the ground? Brutally beaten her? Got up to her face and yelled at her? Restrained her and called the police for her actual assault on him (she punches him in the face first). The most popular narrative is “oh my goodness imagine if this monster wasn’t restrained.” Cases aren’t won with your imagination. Criminal Attempts (attempted murdered or battery) are charged only when someone tries to do something and misses. If you shoot someone and miss. If you throw a punch at someone and miss. 

 

Which brings me to my rant about the NFL. Most professional sports leagues have intricate appeal and hearing processes to protect due process rights. The NFL is run like a dictatorship. Selective outrage tells us what we care about on a given day. Heck, even if the NFL gave Hunt a hearing to defend himself, by a meager preponderance by of the evidence standard, I would be satisfied. But that video is not enough on its face to warrant this type of response.

 

And I’ll say something here that won’t get positive feedback, but I’ve wondered because of my experience. Are the folks who are outraged by that video and calling it a brutal beating truly folks who would be afraid if Hunt were not the “angry black man?” If he was white, and he was held back as Hunt was, would people just view it as two drunk idiots yelling and screaming? 

 

Maybe a hearing with process finds Hunt culpable even on a more likely than not standard that he acted in a fashion unbecoming of an NFL player or whatever the heck that label is called these days. Maybe. Maybe he was right and he can call witnesses, maybe that girl herself, that corroborates that she said those terrible racial slurs that set him off. Maybe that mitigates some of it. But it’s sad how reactively all parties were. Completely and totally reactive. I’m not excusing Hunt here. But that young lady was not criminally assaulted. Not in the United States. That nudge with his foot absolutely isn’t enough. This isn’t Ray Rice, black and white, no questions asked.

 

Hunt is a fool, but this country legislates for fools. No one is perfect. And this country does not criminalize what he did. That doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be suspended or lose his job. But to lose his job/career possibly without a hearing, in a reactive fashion just so the NFL can PRETEND to care about women bugs me. They weren’t this reactive when Irsay for popped for driving under the influence of oxy, endangering actually human beings.

 

Sanctimonious joke all around.

 

You could save yourself some time by realizing that this is about an employer and optics. And that is all that matters. 

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2 minutes ago, disasterisk said:

 

You could save yourself some time by realizing that this is about an employer and optics. And that is all that matters. 

 

This 1,000%.  No one gives a crap if the act was criminal or not.  That doesn't matter and that's not what anyone is talking about.  The NFL is a business.  The business is about making money.  If you employ someone who has this act on video, no doubt it will affect your bottom line.  Not that hard to understand.

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If anything comes of all the NFL's poorly handled instances, I hope that the players negotiate a much better CBA. The NFL's biggest talking points over the last 5 years are how bad Roger Goodell has run the business and the blatant hypocrisy of the NFL and its owners.  Is this really the product they will continue to put out there?  If so its definitely in the players best interest to negotiate ways to prevent the mishandling of the organization and its teams.  

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Just now, TTo34 said:

 

This 1,000%.  No one gives a crap if the act was criminal or not.  That doesn't matter and that's not what anyone is talking about.  The NFL is a business.  The business is about making money.  If you employ someone who has this act on video, no doubt it will affect your bottom line.  Not that hard to understand.

So the key point being incident ON VIDEO?  What message is that really sending.  I guess its ok to beat as long as its not on tape.  

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2 minutes ago, TTo34 said:

 

This 1,000%.  No one gives a crap if the act was criminal or not.  That doesn't matter and that's not what anyone is talking about.  The NFL is a business.  The business is about making money.  If you employ someone who has this act on video, no doubt it will affect your bottom line.  Not that hard to understand.

;)

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What part of the video really outrages people, out of curiosity? The part where she pushes him and punches him in the face?

 

Or the part where he nudged her with his foot and looks angry as he’s “held back.”

 

Are people really sure they’re just not afraid of angry black men? Because just because he’s mad doesn’t mean he’s going to beat her to a pulp. He was free near the end of that video and didn’t do anything.

 

This is crazy to me. 

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2 minutes ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

What part of the video really outrages people, out of curiosity? The part where she pushes him and punches him in the face?

 

Or the part where he nudged her with his foot and looks angry as he’s “held back.”

 

Are people really sure they’re just not afraid of angry black men? Because just because he’s mad doesn’t mean he’s going to beat her to a pulp. He was free near the end of that video and didn’t do anything.

 

This is crazy to me. 

the fact is 9 out of 10 people havent taken the time to watch it.  They read the headline she was brutalized.

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1 minute ago, NoClownQuestionsBro said:

What part of the video really outrages people, out of curiosity? The part where she pushes him and punches him in the face?

 

Or the part where he nudged her with his foot and looks angry as he’s “held back.”

 

Are people really sure they’re just not afraid of angry black men? Because just because he’s mad doesn’t mean he’s going to beat her to a pulp. He was free near the end of that video and didn’t do anything.

 

This is crazy to me. 

 

any man who would even think of laying a hand on a woman is not a man, full stop.

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Just now, CrimsonGhost said:

the fact is 9 out of 10 people havent taken the time to watch it.  They read the headline she was brutalized.  

 

The headline is a joke and I hope he sues TMZ. But he’s a public person and he has an incredibly high burden. He will lose.

 

But man, brutalizes? He didn’t even assault her criminally. He wasn’t even arrested. He was just an angry angry man. The NFL is punishing him for being angry and because his anger as a black man scares its white demographic. 

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2 minutes ago, lolcopter said:

 

any man who would even think of laying a hand on a woman is not a man, full stop.

Why wasn't he prosecuted in a court?  Why were no charges brought?  At the very least the Police are just as guilty for not charging him then, using your logic and all.

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1 minute ago, lolcopter said:

 

any man who would even think of laying a hand on a woman is not a man, full stop.

 

I get the soap boxing and all, but we don’t operate under man code. There are laws and rights accorded to both genders. You don’t know what he was thinking. If a woman is attacking him and punching him he has every single right to defend himself. That’s not an opinion, it’s his legal right.

 

People assuming that Hunt was going to beat her to a pulp are creating facts and narratives. He had opportunities to hit her and he did not.

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