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1 hour ago, parrothead said:

In a 12-team league?  Roto?  5-starters?  In a 12-teamer, usually about 24-25 "closers" would go in our league, we have 1 or 2 owners who might grab 3 and 1-2 who might grab 1. What were your settings that people hoarded closers?  

 

The useless 5th starter on MLB rosters is not rostered in fantasy baseball. #5 starters on fantasy baseball teams are often SP2s or SP3s on their MLB teams.

Standard 5x5 12 team roto with daily lineup changes. Every league I've played in with these settings you couldn't get a closer off waivers. Haven't you ever hung out in the closer threads on this forum? It is absolutely nuts with people frothing at the mouth to land closers no matter how bad of a pitcher the potential closer is.

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I'm surprised at the holds hate. My league started doing it last year and I thought it made the season way more interesting than sitting around trying to fight over a few elite, entrenched closers.

Ok so I've played in leagues for quite a few years now. I really enjoy it because just trying to get the best actual relief pitchers is more fun for me rather than guessing.   I say Kimbrel,

Anyone not including Holds to emphasize how the game has shifted importance in this area are a little behind the times. 

1 hour ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

The useless 5th starter on MLB rosters is not rostered in fantasy baseball. #5 starters on fantasy baseball teams are often SP2s or SP3s on their MLB teams.

Standard 5x5 12 team roto with daily lineup changes. Every league I've played in with these settings you couldn't get a closer off waivers. Haven't you ever hung out in the closer threads on this forum? It is absolutely nuts with people frothing at the mouth to land closers no matter how bad of a pitcher the potential closer is.

I dont look that closely at it because in our league its waiver wire every 2 weeks and there typically not that many closer, if they are a free agent, and injury pick up takes priority over waiver claim, and often when guys go on DL, teams will pick up closer for short term.   We also have wins+MQS as a category, so every start a starter has chance to add 2 to that counting stat, closer can add 1 and if he does a lot of time he has hurt ratio by blowing a save and picking up a win.  

 

Like Ive said, Im not 100% against it, I actually like the concept of going to get the best arm, the issue I have is just watering down that market too much for me given our settings.  

 

I do like the S + H/2 stat mentioned for something in our league, at least it allows one to grab the best arm for a while, probably cant ride that out all season but your getting some contribution to that stat from the best arm even if not the closer, but it still values the closer.  

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30 minutes ago, parrothead said:

I dont look that closely at it because in our league its waiver wire every 2 weeks and there typically not that many closer, if they are a free agent, and injury pick up takes priority over waiver claim, and often when guys go on DL, teams will pick up closer for short term.   We also have wins+MQS as a category, so every start a starter has chance to add 2 to that counting stat, closer can add 1 and if he does a lot of time he has hurt ratio by blowing a save and picking up a win.  

 

Like Ive said, Im not 100% against it, I actually like the concept of going to get the best arm, the issue I have is just watering down that market too much for me given our settings.  

 

I do like the S + H/2 stat mentioned for something in our league, at least it allows one to grab the best arm for a while, probably cant ride that out all season but your getting some contribution to that stat from the best arm even if not the closer, but it still values the closer.  

 

We would have did S + H/2 is ESPN let us but it doesn't. I think that's the best way to do it.

 

I think you'd see things a bit more from our perspective if you ever played in a league where it's a mad dash to add people with save possibilities. Last year at one point there were 4.... FOUR Texas Rangers RP owned and none were even good (Bush, Barnette, Jeffres, Leclerc) because whoever won the job would shoot up in value.

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3 hours ago, parrothead said:

In a 12-team league?  Roto?  5-starters?  In a 12-teamer, usually about 24-25 "closers" would go in our league, we have 1 or 2 owners who might grab 3 and 1-2 who might grab 1. What were your settings that people hoarded closers?  

ehhh not trying to be an a**, but I think the roster settings really need to be adjusted if your league counts Saves and there are still closers on the wire after the draft. Do you only have like 1 or 2 RP slots??

 

In all of my leagues that count saves, not only is every single closer gone by the mid-teen rounds, but half the 8th inning guys are rostered as well.

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11 hours ago, cs3 said:

ehhh not trying to be an a**, but I think the roster settings really need to be adjusted if your league counts Saves and there are still closers on the wire after the draft. Do you only have like 1 or 2 RP slots??

 

In all of my leagues that count saves, not only is every single closer gone by the mid-teen rounds, but half the 8th inning guys are rostered as well.

We dont have slots, its roto 9 pitchers can be 9 starters can be 9 closers, the traditional is 2 closers.  When we did wins instead of wins+QS teams would go 3 sometimes for a while - you could pick up the occasional closer save but everytime a starter goes out they have chance to get 2 in that W+QS category, so it really puts you behind the 8 ball so 13-team league, thats 26 gone.  So some of those backend guys are there.   Occasionally in lieu of a 2nd closer, some teams have drafted that elite middle guy.  I would expect 3-5 guys with "closer" jobs to go undrafted in the auction.  We have no bench, so any guy you have is active with 9 pitchers.  

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13 hours ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

We would have did S + H/2 is ESPN let us but it doesn't. I think that's the best way to do it.

 

I think you'd see things a bit more from our perspective if you ever played in a league where it's a mad dash to add people with save possibilities. Last year at one point there were 4.... FOUR Texas Rangers RP owned and none were even good (Bush, Barnette, Jeffres, Leclerc) because whoever won the job would shoot up in value.

What are your settings that people are in such a scramble for saves?  We are straight roto, looking back at the champion the last several years, the best in saves a team finished was 3rd and that was 2011, you have a lot of 5th 6th you have one 9th and one 11th - generally its a 13 team league give or take, never been less than 12 or more than 14 in that span. 

 

As I said, the league this league is based on is one I used to do where they had an AL and NL only leagues, I was in the AL only and it was brutal trying to secure saves, as I said in an Only setting I would be 1000% on board with SOLDS.  

 

One thing is that it is a keeper league, so most teams will have 1-2 closers, and if you are out of it, often times those are being traded from builder to contender.  Its an 11-keeper 13-team league, only 11 closers were kept and none of the elite guys at like mid 20's pricing (Kenley was not eligible) one guy had Kimbrel for 24, didnt keep him but kept Arenado for 58 and Scherzer for 46.  16 Shortstops were kept.  Its really kind of a weird deal in our league with closers, sometimes even the elite ones can barely crack $20 in the auction, other years the same guy with same numbers is pushing $40.  

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1 hour ago, parrothead said:

What are your settings that people are in such a scramble for saves?  We are straight roto, looking back at the champion the last several years, the best in saves a team finished was 3rd and that was 2011, you have a lot of 5th 6th you have one 9th and one 11th - generally its a 13 team league give or take, never been less than 12 or more than 14 in that span. 

 

As I said, the league this league is based on is one I used to do where they had an AL and NL only leagues, I was in the AL only and it was brutal trying to secure saves, as I said in an Only setting I would be 1000% on board with SOLDS.  

 

One thing is that it is a keeper league, so most teams will have 1-2 closers, and if you are out of it, often times those are being traded from builder to contender.  Its an 11-keeper 13-team league, only 11 closers were kept and none of the elite guys at like mid 20's pricing (Kenley was not eligible) one guy had Kimbrel for 24, didnt keep him but kept Arenado for 58 and Scherzer for 46.  16 Shortstops were kept.  Its really kind of a weird deal in our league with closers, sometimes even the elite ones can barely crack $20 in the auction, other years the same guy with same numbers is pushing $40.  

 

 

It sounds like your roto league is the exception and not the rule. Competitive standard 5x5 roto leagues with daily transactions that I've played in have all been as I described. Like I said, just hang out in the April Closer's Thread this year and you will see how cutthroat the closer chase is. Crappy closers get way overvalued because you can't afford to take 3 points in a category and still win the league. If you only roster 1-2 closers in these leagues, you would finish close to last place in Saves and all but assure you can't win the league.

 

Here is the Pro League settings that made saves such a scramble.

 

https://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/b1/proleagues

 



 

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3 hours ago, parrothead said:

We dont have slots, its roto 9 pitchers can be 9 starters can be 9 closers, the traditional is 2 closers.  When we did wins instead of wins+QS teams would go 3 sometimes for a while - you could pick up the occasional closer save but everytime a starter goes out they have chance to get 2 in that W+QS category, so it really puts you behind the 8 ball so 13-team league, thats 26 gone.  So some of those backend guys are there.   Occasionally in lieu of a 2nd closer, some teams have drafted that elite middle guy.  I would expect 3-5 guys with "closer" jobs to go undrafted in the auction.  We have no bench, so any guy you have is active with 9 pitchers.  

Ok that is a really non-standard setup, especially having no bench.

I dont see how having W+QS should change the value of Saves in your league, unless there's no inning cap and its weekly lineups, which would be really weird for a roto league. 

 

Wait, there's no bench so weekly and daily would be exactly the same. Man, Im totally confused by your league.

 

edit - what's the reason for no bench? seems like no bench combined with no designated SP/RP slots is a good way to really throw off pitcher values, since you cannot effectively implement an innings cap.

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24 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

 

It sounds like your roto league is the exception and not the rule. Competitive standard 5x5 roto leagues with daily transactions that I've played in have all been as I described. Like I said, just hang out in the April Closer's Thread this year and you will see how cutthroat the closer chase is. Crappy closers get way overvalued because you can't afford to take 3 points in a category and still win the league. If you only roster 1-2 closers in these leagues, you would finish close to last place in Saves and all but assure you can't win the league.

 

Here is the Pro League settings that made saves such a scramble.

 

https://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/b1/proleagues

 



 

Is this a re-draft league?  If it is, thats a big dynamic changer as the teams out of it are more likely to not care about categories and trade closers, is what will often happen.  The other big difference is daily transactions - in a setting like that, where you are just grinding it out, like where owners might be more grinding it out, drop a starter and grab a closer for the next couple days.  So yes in that setting because of the daily transactions, I can see it.   So in our league, waivers come every 2 weeks, injury pickups happen more frequently and that is where a lot of these last few closers get picked up, but when original guy comes back they get dumped.  With less transactions and frequency of them, there is a bit of luck/timing to when you have an injury occur OR when its waivers week, is that the time when one of these guys with a jobs emerges?  

 

Although still not sure where the math comes in even with all those transactions in terms of saves being that important to overall success.    

 

So looking at guy who won our league 3years ago, 14-team league, he finished 10th in saves, so only got 4 points.  His offense and starting pitching was lights out, he finished 1st or 2nd in: Wins+QS, WHIP, ERA, K, AVG, R, RBI, HR.  I always kind of consider saves and stolen bases to be a bit of one-off categories.   He had Jansen and Casilla all year, got 4 saves from Cecil and Latroy Hawkins as injury pickup or waiver guys, not sure.  

 

2 Years Ago - guy dominated, won the league in a runaway by almost 30 points, one of biggest margins ever had 124 points in 14 team league, second was under 100.  He finished 9th in saves out of 14, was 1st or 2nd in all 5 offensive categories, he won Wins+QS and WHIP, was 3rd in K and 4th in ERA.   He got 61 saves. he owned Chapman, picked up Diaz in July and his only other saves came from Gregorson who looked like a multi-week injury replacement. 

 

I

 

 

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12 minutes ago, cs3 said:

Ok that is a really non-standard setup, especially having no bench.

I dont see how having W+QS should change the value of Saves in your league, unless there's no inning cap and its weekly lineups, which would be really weird for a roto league. 

 

Wait, there's no bench so weekly and daily would be exactly the same. Man, Im totally confused by your league.

 

edit - what's the reason for no bench? seems like no bench combined with no designated SP/RP slots is a good way to really throw off pitcher values, since you cannot effectively implement an innings cap.

No Bench - essentially is two things, and I have been lobbying for like a 3-player reserve bench for a while, that would be a snake draft after the auction, but really has gained not much traction.  The original point was to put the emphasis on the draft I think, honestly so long ago cant remember.  

 

14/9 is about as standard as it gets for true Roto obviously so many settings out there but that was kind of the plurality.  We used to require that each team have at least one Relief P/Closer but honestly in a roto, if you want to get no saves?  Go ahead and best of luck. 

 

With regards to QS+W, when we were just wins, Closers were a bit more scarce as it was very common for teams to go 6 starters 3 closers (if they could get them) that was kind of always my preferred roster coming out of the auction, then I would adjust as needed, usually meaning one of them would lose their job and I would move more into 7-2 and you could get those closer wins sometimes 5-6 of them and if your frontline starters were winning and high K guys, you were fine.  But now, that every start guys can get 2 in that counting stat, closer wins dont really help them.  So 80-90% of the league is 7 starters 2 closers.  1 team might go 3 closers to start the year 1 team might go 1 closer.  A few teams have gone 1 closer 1 elite middle guy like Miller.  

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