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Mar/April Closer Thread 2018


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Rodney  

Anyone have any thoughts on the Milwaukee situation?

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3 hours ago, handyandy86 said:

 

The sooner they make Alvarado "the guy" the sooner they have to start paying him better. If they aren't going anywhere this year there's no point in driving up his price on future contracts. 

Agreed.  These contract/arbitration situation have significant influence on these situations unfortunately.  Means the more talented guys are not necessarily gettinf the first shot.  I think Romo would be the next in line.  

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On 4/6/2018 at 10:02 PM, F@ndemonium said:

How do you justify that when Hand has:

1. Had 2 rough outings out of 5 appearances

2. Is a southpaw

3. Has a capable set-up man behind him in Yates

 

Not saying its a scorching hot seat situation, but the chair may be a bit tepid at this point  

 

Still worried?

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2 hours ago, street sharks said:

Parker can officially be dropped. Just made the move myself. Role is Middleton's for now. 

Yeah this was fairly clear 1 week ago. Though you can never discount that manager and his whims

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9 hours ago, benturn22 said:

4 batters faced for Hand...4 K's.  Nasty.

 

9 hours ago, KilloWertz said:

Hand is in for the 4-out save.  Time to get H.... nah, not going there....

 

Saw some 94 mph fastballs from him...he was living at 91 a lot in the beginning of the season

 

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29 minutes ago, Golden Spikes said:

 

Still worried?

Grr....Not as much as 7 days ago...What a difference a week can make....Yates went on the Disabled List with ankle inflammation and Hand has rediscovered his dominant form.      

 

Still, I do believe that Yates is extremely undervalued in most fantasy circles.  His split-changeup is very impressive.  There was a good read regarding it on FG recently.  Check it out if you get a moment. 

 

He could really thrive in a stoppers role if ever given the opportunity (in or outside of SD).  

 

I will "Hand" it to you though,  Brad seems to have a firm grip on the 9th inning gig, at least for now :) 

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6 minutes ago, dannyusf said:

Is Ziegler even worth owning? 

 

I've asked myself this several times. To be fair, tonight wasn't his fault in the slightest. Two bunt hits and a brutal error by Starlin Castro (which was inexplicably ruled a hit, because everything is a hit in MLB these days) is what cost him. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, mtw02 said:

Agreed.  These contract/arbitration situation have significant influence on these situations unfortunately.  Means the more talented guys are not necessarily gettinf the first shot.  I think Romo would be the next in line.  

Sooner or later this isn't going to matter at all.  The days of the "closer" getting 5x as much money as other bullpen pieces should already be gone, the only thing keeping it there is the sheer ignorance of arbitration panels.  Now that the "Miller role" has finally permeated the consciousness of casual sports analysts (like ESPN personalities) and there are many examples of teams proudly keeping their "best" reliever out of the closer role (Miller, Hader, Bradley, etc) agents will have plenty of ammunition to argue that any high leverage reliever is worth as much dollars as the guy getting saves.

 

Teams simply aren't going to be able to save money by keeping a guy out of the closer role anymore.

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1 hour ago, kittenmittons said:

Sooner or later this isn't going to matter at all.  The days of the "closer" getting 5x as much money as other bullpen pieces should already be gone, the only thing keeping it there is the sheer ignorance of arbitration panels.  Now that the "Miller role" has finally permeated the consciousness of casual sports analysts (like ESPN personalities) and there are many examples of teams proudly keeping their "best" reliever out of the closer role (Miller, Hader, Bradley, etc) agents will have plenty of ammunition to argue that any high leverage reliever is worth as much dollars as the guy getting saves.

 

Teams simply aren't going to be able to save money by keeping a guy out of the closer role anymore.

 

Maybe.  The role is getting more notoriety, for sure, but past the three you name (Miller, Hader, Bradley) I can't really name anyone else who has actually locked it down as a defined role.  And in Bradley's case there are still rumblings that they want him to start at some point.  I'm not sure you'll see people netting Chapman money going forward (not often anyway), but part of that can likely be explained by the decline in FA contracts overall we witnessed this past offseason (and even in that environment Wade Davis got a massive contract).  

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1 hour ago, ROC_All_Stars_17 said:

 

Maybe.  The role is getting more notoriety, for sure, but past the three you name (Miller, Hader, Bradley) I can't really name anyone else who has actually locked it down as a defined role.  And in Bradley's case there are still rumblings that they want him to start at some point.  I'm not sure you'll see people netting Chapman money going forward (not often anyway), but part of that can likely be explained by the decline in FA contracts overall we witnessed this past offseason (and even in that environment Wade Davis got a massive contract).  

It might not be, I can't really bet against the current stupidity continuing I suppose.  It's gone on this long... but front offices are finally getting away from traditional crap in favor of SABR.

 

I'd say Peacock and Devenksi are both used a lot like Hader and Bradley, also Betances and maybe Robertson in New York - The Astros and the Yankees have an embarrassment of riches though.  Card Edwards Jr. is by far the best reliever in the Cubs pen - It's not even close there.  You could also potentially argue for Ottavino being kept out of the closer role.  I think that as elite relievers continue to emerge we will see them less and less used in the traditional closer role but they will still be able to get big contracts based on performance and not Saves.

 

When Miller's contract comes up this offseason his agent will argue he should get more than a closer because his role is more important.  There will be plenty of evidence of teams around the league talking about how the fireman role is more important than a closer and Miller's contract will set a precedent for other agents to point to.

 

When Bradley's Arbitration comes up this offseason his agent will be citing Andrew Miller's $9 million per year contract in 2018 and whatever he gets in 2019 as evidence that Bradley should be making as much as or even more than a closer.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, kittenmittons said:

It might not be, I can't really bet against the current stupidity continuing I suppose.  It's gone on this long... but front offices are finally getting away from traditional crap in favor of SABR.

 

I'd say Peacock and Devenksi are both used a lot like Hader and Bradley, also Betances and maybe Robertson in New York - The Astros and the Yankees have an embarrassment of riches though.  Card Edwards Jr. is by far the best reliever in the Cubs pen - It's not even close there.  You could also potentially argue for Ottavino being kept out of the closer role.  I think that as elite relievers continue to emerge we will see them less and less used in the traditional closer role but they will still be able to get big contracts based on performance and not Saves.

 

When Miller's contract comes up this offseason his agent will argue he should get more than a closer because his role is more important.  There will be plenty of evidence of teams around the league talking about how the fireman role is more important than a closer and Miller's contract will set a precedent for other agents to point to.

 

When Bradley's Arbitration comes up this offseason his agent will be citing Andrew Miller's $9 million per year contract in 2018 and whatever he gets in 2019 as evidence that Bradley should be making as much as or even more than a closer.

 

 

 

Agreed, and don't get me wrong, I like the move toward the multi-inning guy and I hope it continues.  But the concept of the "closer" runs deep these days.  

 

Peacock is an interesting case, and I think that Betances could get there as well.  As a Cubs fan, I'd love to see Edwards grow into that role, but I think he's too up and down to really pull it off.  That could be recency bias after fighting through our bullpen woes in the 2017 playoffs though, so ask me again in like 8 weeks or so.

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14 hours ago, absknicks said:

 

I've asked myself this several times. To be fair, tonight wasn't his fault in the slightest. Two bunt hits and a brutal error by Starlin Castro (which was inexplicably ruled a hit, because everything is a hit in MLB these days) is what cost him. 

 

 

 

This just helps further explain why swing-and-miss stuff is considered important for closers and set-up guys holding leads. Minimize the damage done when the ball is put into play but not allowing the ball to be put into play. 

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