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Mar/April Closer Thread 2018


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57 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

 

Over his major league career? You are acting he's some sort of veteran. And you also are acting like RP usage isn't extremely VOLATILE. If we used usage over players careers Albers would never be pitching in the 9th. Using Haders "career" when has barely pitched 50 innings in his career as evidence is hilarious.. Seems you are grasping at straws. In almost every RP's situation, more important than their usage last year is their usage now. I can't believe I even had to say that explicitly.

 

 

 

Using his career numbers is about as stupid as not acknowledging how the Brewers used Hader vs the Cardinals last week and against the Cubs before that.

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Rodney  

Anyone have any thoughts on the Milwaukee situation?

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13 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Rick Renteria is an idiot.

 

Up 2 entering the 8th and he doesn't go Jones Soria to get the last 6 outs.

 

Sox give up a run.   Still no Jones or Soria.  Leaves Avilan in to face the hottest hitter on the planet in Lowrie who promptly hits the go ahead homer.

 

Then he brings in Jones.  Wtf?  Idiot...

 

Further,  a guy with Jones' injury history shouldn't be used as a multi inning guy.   He (or Soria, don't care which) should have started the 8th clean and then the other one pitched the 9th.  It makes no sense at all the way Renteria played it today.  Might as well fire him. 

Esp since they should be trying to make these two look good as possible for a trade soon.  Most of these ex pro players make terrible coaches.  MiLB has to have something better avail to hire

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7 minutes ago, WahooManiac said:

Esp since they should be trying to make these two look good as possible for a trade soon.  Most of these ex pro players make terrible coaches.  MiLB has to have something better avail to hire

 

Jones ends up going 1.1.

Rondon 2.

Soria 1.

 

I'd hammer this guy so hard in the Postgame presser he'd want to fight.   

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Just now, ST. STEVEN said:

Why in the world did the As push Blake 3 innings and 40+ pitches?? That is not wise-

 

Renteria sees you and raises you Rondon's 44 and counting pitches in his third inning of work after throwing 26 yesterday.

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28 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

Using his career numbers is about as stupid as not acknowledging how the Brewers used Hader vs the Cardinals last week and against the Cubs before that.

Weighing his 4th or 5th appearance ago in a bullpen in turmoil more than his last 3 appearances, is even more stupid than using his career numbers. You win!

 

Countless times over the years 3 appearances is all an RP needs to secure a closing job or create a near closing argument. Did you just start watching closers today?

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37 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

3 appearances is an incredibly small sample size and saying 'the only thing we have seen consistently from him in the last 3 appearances' is an oxymoron.

 

If you go back to the 4th and 5th most recent appearances:

4 appearances ago he entered up 4-3 in the 7th to face 9-1-2. and pitched 1.1 innings.

5 appearances ago he entered down 2-0 in the 4th to face 2-3-4 and pitched 2.0 innings.

 

 

This. Also RP use isn't as volatile as y'all are implying. It is for traditional 1 ip closer type relievers. For these new swingmen like Miller, Bradley and now Hader their roles are very defined and consistent. You saw this play out in ARI where despite seemingly not so great options Bradley wasn't going to be used in the closer role.

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51 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

 

Over his major league career? You are acting he's some sort of veteran. And you also are acting like RP usage isn't extremely VOLATILE. If we used usage over players careers Albers would never be pitching in the 9th. Using Haders "career" when has barely pitched 50 innings in his career as evidence is hilarious.. Seems you are grasping at straws. In almost every RP's situation, more important than their usage last year is their usage now. I can't believe I even had to say that explicitly.

 

 

Hader isn't the closer in any form of the traditional sense.  He's not going going to be the closer.  If he happens to get a save, its happenstance.  

 

If you want to cite recent usage, he goes 2 innings so he will get saves if he comes in for the 8th... That will have the effect of him not being available the next day, like today.  Closers usually just pitch the 9th so that they can go multiple days in a row. 

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Ive already said its a committee and Hader is just at the head. That means he is going to get more than Barnes and Albers. Since I"m saying its a committee I'm not saying Hader is your traditional closer. No one is.

 

 

I also said Haders would be the head before he even got a Save. You are really slow if you still think its albers or barnes.

 

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17 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

Ive already said its a committee and Hader is just at the head. That means he is going to get more than Barnes and Albers. Since I"m saying its a committee I'm not saying Hader is your traditional closer. No one is.

 

 

I also said Haders would be the head before he even got a Save. You are really slow if you still think its albers or barnes.

 

Nah he's not at the head. There isn't a head. Each pitcher will go when circumstances dictate and that's contingent entirely on game flow. It's not a conscious Hader is the favorite to close thing. It's literally just a question of when it the best time to deploy your best reliever which more often than not isn't the 9th believe it or not.

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Can't see the Nats handing closer duties to Ryan Madson anytime soon. He just imploded in the 8th against the Mets. He came on with a 2 -run lead and promptly gave up 4 runs on 5 hits and a walk, in just 2/3rds of an inning. He's now been taken out with 2 men still on.

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20 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

Ive already said its a committee and Hader is just at the head. That means he is going to get more than Barnes and Albers. Since I"m saying its a committee I'm not saying Hader is your traditional closer. No one is.

 

 

I also said Haders would be the head before he even got a Save. You are really slow if you still think its albers or barnes.

 

It's not a traditional committee either...  Clearly  I am just really slow though.

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Just now, Router said:

Can't see the Nats handing closer duties to Ryan Madson anytime soon. He just imploded in the 8th against the Mets. He came on with a 2 -run lead and promptly gave up 4 runs on 5 hits and a walk, in just 2/3rds of an inning. He's now been taken out with 2 men still on.

 

The manager inexplicably had him throw over a 100 pitches in five days.  I have no idea what that was all about.

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39 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

Weighing his 4th or 5th appearance ago in a bullpen in turmoil more than his last 3 appearances, is even more stupid than using his career numbers. You win!

 

Countless times over the years 3 appearances is all an RP needs to secure a closing job or create a near closing argument. Did you just start watching closers today?

 

I'm taking all 5 appearances into consideration. This isn't rocket science.

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18 minutes ago, RAZRr1275 said:

Nah he's not at the head. There isn't a head. Each pitcher will go when circumstances dictate and that's contingent entirely on game flow. It's not a conscious Hader is the favorite to close thing. It's literally just a question of when it the best time to deploy your best reliever which more often than not isn't the 9th believe it or not.

 

Except it is lol. The last 3 times everyone was available Hader got the save opportunity. Coincidence? Really? Lmao. 

 

And even if you argue it's circumstancial and there weren't high leverage situations in the 6th or 7th, I'd say more often than not there won't be. Still making Hader the favorite no matter how you call it. 

 

All Hail HADER!!!

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6 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

 

Except it is lol. The last 3 times everyone was available Hader got the save opportunity. Coincidence? Really? Lmao. 

 

And even if you argue it's circumstancial and there weren't high leverage situations in the 6th or 7th, I'd say more often than not there won't be. Still making Hader the favorite no matter how you call it. 

 

All Hail HADER!!!

It's not a change him closing is perfectly within the scheme of using your best guy in a high leverage situation. If you want to predict that it'll be most common for that situation to occur in the 8th/9th be my guest but I think it's more likely that someone gets into a jam earlier in the game 

 

 

Btws I own Hader in 5 leagues including a dynasty where I added him right he started getting buzz on fangraphs fringe 5 and here when he was in the minors with back end starter upside so try again

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3 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

 

Again every closing tracking website 3 games is enough indicator to change a higharchy. 1 game is usually enough and 3 games is enough to at least put an asterisk on a change. 

 

If 3 games isn't enough for you, then you are really bad at this and definitely behind the game of closers which requires you to be ahead of people. Feel bad for you at this point lol 

 

Well then let's bet?

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2 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

Well then let's bet?

I'm saying it's a commitee where Hader is the head. If you disagree choose who you think is the head and I'll bet Hader gets more saves ROS. 

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2 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

I'm saying it's a commitee where Hader is the head. If you disagree choose who you think is the head and I'll bet Hader gets more saves ROS. 

 

I didn't say anyone would get more saves than Hader. I'm saying that the Brewers aren't going to hesitate to use Hader in the 7th if the situation calls for it. You're saying that Hader will only pitch the 8th or 9th.

 

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4 minutes ago, RAZRr1275 said:

It's not a change him closing is perfectly within the scheme of using your best guy in a high leverage situation. If you want to predict that it'll be most common for that situation to occur in the 8th/9th be my guest but I think it's more likely that someone gets into a jam earlier in the game 

 

 

Btws I own Hader in 5 leagues including a dynasty where I added him right he started getting buzz on fangraphs fringe 5 and here when he was in the minors with back end starter upside so try again

Right your closest comparison is Miller Bradley and they definitely are seen often getting their teams out of jams in the 5th and 6th. Seems very likely indeed. LOL

 

Seriously did you just start watching baseball ?

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2 minutes ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

I didn't say anyone would get more saves than Hader. I'm saying that the Brewers aren't going to hesitate to use Hader in the 7th if the situation calls for it. You're saying that Hader will only pitch the 8th or 9th.

 

 

Um my only claims were that he is the head of a commitee and the favorite to get saves. Go read again, never said he will only pitch those innings. Stop assuming things. I can show you where I said he's the head and favorite. That's what this discussion is on

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5 minutes ago, terminator10 said:

 

Um my only claims were that he is the head of a commitee and the favorite to get saves. Go read again, never said he will only pitch those innings. Stop assuming things. I can show you where I said he's the head and favorite. That's what this discussion is on

 

This implies you don't think he will ever enter the game in the 7th, which IMO is erroneous:

"But if he's pitching 2 innings....facing 6-8 batters total....at some point the 2,3, or 4 will be there. It doesn't matter if i t happens in the 8th like his 1st save, or the 9th like his 2nd save. There is a high leverage situation in every 8th and 9th inning each game."

"And what are you basing this on that will happen? So far the only thing we have seen consistently from him in the last 3 appearances is:

 

1. He enters in the 8th.

2. He tries to close it pitching 8th and 9th.

 

Three times in a row. If he allows a run he is benched. But otherwise he gets save

Everything else is just hypothetical and your own theory that isn't fact based. I have a sample size using his last 3 appearances. You have....a theory? Lol ."

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