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Saquon Barkley 2018 Outlook


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[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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Shurmur runs a lot ... and Thielen was top 5 in receiving yards 

 

Stop finding things to worry about - there is no reason Barkley / Odell will not be elite fantasy producers 

 

- and Engram will be a quality fantasy TE 

 

— not because I’m a giants fan, but I’m sure you guys will spend your weekend finding something to “argue” against this. See ya Monday 

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10 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

Assuming health the pitt duo.   Better oline, better qb, better offense.  

They lost their OC though. Will be interesting to watch as the season unfolds. I don't think the Giants' OLine, QB, or offense are that far off from the Steelers'. AB and Bell are otherworldly, but if Barkley lives up to his draft pedigree it will be very even. The Steelers' OLine has really deteriorated the last year or two. And now they are relying on Juju to be the clear #2. Giants have OBJ, Shepard, and Engram.

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3 hours ago, devaster said:

They lost their OC though. Will be interesting to watch as the season unfolds. I don't think the Giants' OLine, QB, or offense are that far off from the Steelers'. AB and Bell are otherworldly, but if Barkley lives up to his draft pedigree it will be very even. The Steelers' OLine has really deteriorated the last year or two. And now they are relying on Juju to be the clear #2. Giants have OBJ, Shepard, and Engram.

 

I don't see the slippage on the Pitt OL.  Assuming health there's a huge gap between the Sreelers oline and the Giants.  They return all five starters again.

 

I also think the gap between Eli and Big Ben is massive.  

 

Juju is better player than Shepard.  James Washington was a savvy draft pick and can bring 90% of what Martavius did on the field last year.  I'm not saying he's as talented overall as MB, just that for the deep threat/field stretcher only role that Pitt used MB as last year he will fill in just fine. 

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12 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

I don't see the slippage on the Pitt OL.  Assuming health there's a huge gap between the Sreelers oline and the Giants.  They return all five starters again.

 

I also think the gap between Eli and Big Ben is massive.  

 

Juju is better player than Shepard.  James Washington was a savvy draft pick and can bring 90% of what Martavius did on the field last year.  I'm not saying he's as talented overall as MB, just that for the deep threat/field stretcher only role that Pitt used MB as last year he will fill in just fine. 

 

The gap between Eli and Ben is not massive at all. Ben has played with a top-5 OL, an elite RB and an all-time great WR who misses few games. Eli had none of the above last year. 

 

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4 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

The gap between Eli and Ben is not massive at all. Ben has played with a top-5 OL, an elite RB and an all-time great WR who misses few games. Eli had none of the above last year. 

 

 

Eli can't throw downfield anymore.  Anything over 20/25 yards is beyond his physical ability at this point.   It's just a prayer.

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8 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Eli can't throw downfield anymore.  Anything over 20/25 yards is beyond his physical ability at this point.   It's just a prayer.

 

Goes back to the OL and no running game. Ben was horrible at the start of last year when his OL wasn't good either.

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6 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Goes back to the OL and no running game. Ben was horrible at the start of last year when his OL wasn't good either.

 

Ben was horrible because he was just off and sucking.  It wasn't on the oline and it wasn't loss of physical ability.  It was flat out bad decision making and play (He needs more reps than just one preseason game.  Lack of work under game conditions was evident). He snapped out of it after embarrassing himself vs Jacksonville.  

 

Eli physically has lost it.  The ball flat out isn't getting to where it needs to be on throws that require arm strength.   Couple that with his risky decision making that's been part of his regular season game and it's a bad combo.  On the shorter quick hitting stuff he's still fine. 

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5 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Ben was horrible because he was just off and sucking.  It wasn't on the oline and it wasn't loss of physical ability.  It was flat out bad decision making and play (He needs more reps than just one preseason game.  Lack of work under game conditions was evident). He snapped out of it after embarrassing himself vs Jacksonville.  

 

Eli physically has lost it.  The ball flat out isn't getting to where it needs to be on throws that require arm strength.   Couple that with his risky decision making that's been part of his regular season game and it's a bad combo.  On the shorter quick hitting stuff he's still fine. 

 

Disagree strongly. The Ben hate was way too far by midseason (allowing many like me to get him cheap), just as the Eli hate is too high now.  Despite all his weapons, Ben has always been horrible on the road.

 

Eli had a bottom-5 supporting cast last year. I'm looking forward to seeing him actually have time to take more than a three-step drop without being killed; would be the first time to happen consistently since the 2010 season. Barkley will play a huge role in that.

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15 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Disagree strongly. The Ben hate was way too far by midseason (allowing many like me to get him cheap), just as the Eli hate is too high now.  Despite all his weapons, Ben has always been horrible on the road.

 

Eli had a bottom-5 supporting cast last year. I'm looking forward to seeing him actually have time to take more than a three-step drop without being killed; would be the first time to happen consistently since the 2010 season. Barkley will play a huge role in that.

 

What is your preferred measuring stick for qb performance?  Whatever it is tell me what you think Eli's will be this year.

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5 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

What is your preferred measuring stick for qb performance?  Whatever it is tell me what you think Eli's will be this year.

 

I expect Eli to be a low-end QB1/high-end QB2 this year with potential for more if the OL improvements, Barkley and OBJ are as good as expected.

 

He's gone from one of the worst supporting casts to one of the best. His YPA of 6.1 in 2017 was bad, just like Wentz's of 6.2 was bad in 2016 before his supporting cast was markedly upgraded. I'd expect Eli's YPA to be in the 7.3-7.5 range for 2018.

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2 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

I expect Eli to be a low-end QB1/high-end QB2 this year with potential for more if the OL improvements, Barkley and OBJ are as good as expected.

 

He's gone from one of the worst supporting casts to one of the best. His YPA of 6.1 in 2017 was bad, just like Wentz's of 6.2 was bad in 2016 before his supporting cast was markedly upgraded. I'd expect Eli's YPA to be in the 7.3-7.5 range for 2018.

 

I agree with your assessment of Eli. He's a top tier QB2 right now with a chance to work into a QB1. I can't agree with the Wentz comparison though. Wentz has the unique ability to buy time and extend plays. If it's not there then Eli's gotta bail on the play, he's a statue. The upgrade in talent, especially Barkley will help open up a few things for him no doubt and should certainly help his average. Keeping Eli clean will be their biggest issue, especially in the East.

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4 hours ago, joshua18 said:

I expect Eli to be a low-end QB1/high-end QB2 this year with potential for more if the OL improvements, Barkley and OBJ are as good as expected. [...] He's gone from one of the worst supporting casts to one of the best.

 

2 hours ago, South Carolina said:

I agree with your assessment of Eli. He's a top tier QB2 right now with a chance to work into a QB1.

 

For clarity here, I like Eli. I like him as a professional, as a person, and have happily followed his career rooting him on. I hope he succeeds and leads the Giants to a great season.

 

That said, it's deja vu all over again. Eli supporters over the past two years support Eli in the spring and fall, but that support fades as the season progresses. Realistically, the evidence is more supportive that Eli is trending down rather than improving or maintaining his skills. His errant passes elicit a WTF response, as they are far off. Some of his numbers don't accurately demonstrate how far off Eli's game-play is. I admit we can blame some of his issues on o-line, on McAdoo, on the lack of a backfield, on injured receivers, but Eli must take some of the blame himself: he has not played like Eli Manning since 2015: two seasons, a doppelganger has assumed his identity on the field.

 

Can Eli be a QB1? I hope so, but see no evidence since 2015. Is he a solid QB2? I'd like to think so, but to suggest he's "high end" or "top tier QB2" is possibly misplaced optimism based on the past two years.

 

200.gif

 

nooeli.0.gif

 

Eli needs more than just an o-line, a top RB, healthy WRs, and better coaching, in order to regain some of the outstanding game-play we saw in 2015 and earlier, highlight being November vs. the Saints, or more accurately vs. a shootout with Brees: 11/1/2015, 30 completions / 41 attempts (73.2%), 350 yards / 6 TDs.

 

Eli needs a guru, training, mentorship----whatever it takes to improve his strength, accuracy, and mindset----and I'd suggest that it's his mind that needs conditioning more than his body, as Eli's concentration / focus require improving if he's to become a stabilized QB2 with QB1 potential.

 

This is from 2015, an example of poise, focus, and skill that cannot count on, yet that we can only hope Eli finds this coming year:

elite.0.gif

 

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19 minutes ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

 

For clarity here, I like Eli. I like him as a professional, as a person, and have happily followed his career rooting him on. I hope he succeeds and leads the Giants to a great season.

 

That said, it's deja vu all over again. Eli supporters over the past two years support Eli in the spring and fall, but that support fades as the season progresses. Realistically, the evidence is more supportive that Eli is trending down rather than improving or maintaining his skills. His errant passes elicit a WTF response, as they are far off. Some of his numbers don't accurately demonstrate how far off Eli's game-play is. I admit we can blame some of his issues on o-line, on McAdoo, on the lack of a backfield, on injured receivers, but Eli must take some of the blame himself: he has not played like Eli Manning since 2015: two seasons, a doppelganger has assumed his identity on the field.

 

Can Eli be a QB1? I hope so, but see no evidence since 2015. Is he a solid QB2? I'd like to think so, but to suggest he's "high end" or "top tier QB2" is possibly misplaced optimism based on the past two years.

 

200.gif

 

nooeli.0.gif

 

Eli needs more than just an o-line, a top RB, healthy WRs, and better coaching, in order to regain some of the outstanding game-play we saw in 2015 and earlier, highlight being November vs. the Saints, or more accurately vs. a shootout with Brees: 11/1/2015, 30 completions / 41 attempts (73.2%), 350 yards / 6 TDs.

 

Eli needs a guru, training, mentorship----whatever it takes to improve his strength, accuracy, and mindset----and I'd suggest that it's his mind that needs conditioning more than his body, as Eli's concentration / focus require improving if he's to become a stabilized QB2 with QB1 potential.

 

This is from 2015, an example of poise, focus, and skill that cannot count on, yet that we can only hope Eli finds this coming year:

elite.0.gif

 

 

 

 

Good stuff, great job. It's true, he's been hideous of late. Not sure if it was the talent around him, coaching or the fact that he just sucks nowadays. Maybe all of the above. I don't care if his last name is Manning or not but I'd have a short leash on him for sure. 

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1 hour ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

 

For clarity here, I like Eli. I like him as a professional, as a person, and have happily followed his career rooting him on. I hope he succeeds and leads the Giants to a great season.

 

That said, it's deja vu all over again. Eli supporters over the past two years support Eli in the spring and fall, but that support fades as the season progresses. Realistically, the evidence is more supportive that Eli is trending down rather than improving or maintaining his skills. His errant passes elicit a WTF response, as they are far off. Some of his numbers don't accurately demonstrate how far off Eli's game-play is. I admit we can blame some of his issues on o-line, on McAdoo, on the lack of a backfield, on injured receivers, but Eli must take some of the blame himself: he has not played like Eli Manning since 2015: two seasons, a doppelganger has assumed his identity on the field.

 

Can Eli be a QB1? I hope so, but see no evidence since 2015. Is he a solid QB2? I'd like to think so, but to suggest he's "high end" or "top tier QB2" is possibly misplaced optimism based on the past two years.

 

200.gif

 

nooeli.0.gif

 

Eli needs more than just an o-line, a top RB, healthy WRs, and better coaching, in order to regain some of the outstanding game-play we saw in 2015 and earlier, highlight being November vs. the Saints, or more accurately vs. a shootout with Brees: 11/1/2015, 30 completions / 41 attempts (73.2%), 350 yards / 6 TDs.

 

Eli needs a guru, training, mentorship----whatever it takes to improve his strength, accuracy, and mindset----and I'd suggest that it's his mind that needs conditioning more than his body, as Eli's concentration / focus require improving if he's to become a stabilized QB2 with QB1 potential.

 

This is from 2015, an example of poise, focus, and skill that cannot count on, yet that we can only hope Eli finds this coming year:

elite.0.gif

 

 

 

 

It's all talk until the season starts. Things change too fast in this league to be sure of anything holding from year to year; especially when situations dramatically change. Wentz, Gurley, Hopkins are prime examples from 2017. 

 

Most sites have Eli ranked in the mid-20s of QBs right now. If he's even a mid QB2, Barkley, OBJ and Engram will exceed expectations for owners. 

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On 5/11/2018 at 11:54 AM, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

Shurmur runs a lot ... and Thielen was top 5 in receiving yards 

 

Stop finding things to worry about - there is no reason Barkley / Odell will not be elite fantasy producers 

 

- and Engram will be a quality fantasy TE 

 

— not because I’m a giants fan, but I’m sure you guys will spend your weekend finding something to “argue” against this. See ya Monday 

i'm a cowboys fan, but i can say this.....the giants have put themselves back into the mix for the nfc division title without a doubt.

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8 minutes ago, not an nfl scout said:

i'm a cowboys fan, but i can say this.....the giants have put themselves back into the mix for the nfc division title without a doubt.

 

Thank you for being able to actually view a “rival” objectively 

 

I couldn’t be more pleased with this offseason 

 

Barkley + Hernandez + Solder is going to go a long way towards establishing a legit run game ... this opens up the play action / Odell - Engram matchups and helps the defense with the ability to actually sustain a drive and give them a breather

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, joshua18 said:

Eli had a bottom-5 supporting cast last year. I'm looking forward to seeing him actually have time to take more than a three-step drop without being killed; would be the first time to happen consistently since the 2010 season. Barkley will play a huge role in that

if they can run a few delay runs up the middle with barkley right away i'll guarn-frickin-tee that pass rush will back the hell off in a hurry when they turn around and see barkley running up the field with linebackers chasing him and dbacks trying to tackle him in the open field when he has a head of steam......hahahahaha thats a proven football fact.

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3 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

Thank you for being able to actually view a “rival” objectively 

 

I couldn’t be more pleased with this offseason 

you should be. barkley will be amazing. it reminds me of when minnesota drafted peterson. they had an iffy line as well. they had questions on D and things all changed when peterson did well on mostly his own ability to make things happen. good backs do that, and barkley is the best to come out since peterson for sure. eli's skill set is diminished some, but he is wiley as a fox and has extreme wisdom with age. beckham can stay healthy. engram can own the middle......look the hell out.....they can sustain drives and keep the D fresher, they will be better.....thats not conjecture......thats fact.

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Eli looked pretty good lighting up the SB champs 

 

 

I wonder if Beckham, Shepard, Engram, and Barkley on the field together + a better OL may help? 

 

Keep telling yourselves theres a huge gap between the 2 teams Eagles fans ... there really isn’t.

 

Congrats on the SB, I enjoyed all 4 of my teams as well (I was too young for the first 2, but I assume they were cool too). 

 

Lighting it up with Roger Lewis and Tavares King ... But he sucks Eagles are flawless and all hope is lost 

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Just now, not an nfl scout said:

you should be. barkley will be amazing. it reminds me of when minnesota drafted peterson. they had an iffy line as well. they had questions on D and things all changed when peterson did well on mostly his own ability to make things happen. good backs do that, and barkley is the best to come out since peterson for sure. eli's skill set is diminished some, but he is wiley as a fox and has extreme wisdom with age. beckham can stay healthy. engram can own the middle......look the hell out.....they can sustain drives and keep the D fresher, they will be better.....thats not conjecture......thats fact.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

You actually understand “reality football” too ... seriously, thank you.

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22 minutes ago, not an nfl scout said:

i'm a cowboys fan, but i can say this.....the giants have put themselves back into the mix for the nfc division title without a doubt.

 

maybe and thats a big maybe they can squeak by in the division but not the conference without the defense getting in the top 12.  Maybe you should look around but the NFC is loaded with offensive talent that can put up points easily so the giants are going to need more than barkley obj engram and a new o-line. they need a defense that can limit the  powerhouse teams in the NFC.

Personally i would love to see giants games become shootouts for fantasy reasons rather than defensive grind sessions. 

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33 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

Congrats on the SB, I enjoyed all 4 of my teams as well (I was too young for the first 2, but I assume they were cool too). 

 

how did you enjoy the first 2 then 

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3 minutes ago, CyberneticGhostOfXMasPast said:

 

Great question. The internet, check it out :

 

YouTube “ Giants SB wins” 

 

Wish I was old enough to appreciate LT 

 

wow awesome 

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