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Nick Chubb 2018 Outlook


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4 hours ago, joshua18 said:

 

Not nearly as bad as Bortles being taken with a top-3 pick.

 

 

Bortles has had some QB1 seasons and has played in an AFC championship game, we’ll see how Bakers resume looks in a few years.

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Could he fall under the Kamara effect?    Last year Kamara was rarely drafted high in redraft because of the murky depth chart, only for the opening to create for him to explode.   I think collectively, the Browns running game is going to produce.   Tyrod only helps them overall there, and Chubb and Hyde both are better than Crowell.....plus the slight improvements in other areas should *ducks* make them more competitive, at least slightly, right?

 

So if Chubb can get around Hyde (injury, I'm sure in this case would be the cause, Hyde is not going to be Peterson level mediocre) I think he's got RB2 value.  For dynasty/keeper, he's definitely worth it 

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Like so many of these rookie RBs, the camp battle will (hopefully) help us discern the future better.  That said, as someone who has followed Hyde very closely since last off-season, I wouldn't count him out.  

 

First, even while akwardly miscast in Shanahan's very skill-specific run game, Hyde showed alot.  He still runs well, and he is much more of a threat in the pass game than he was prior to last season.  Also, his team-first attitude is going to be valued in that locker room.

 

Second, I doubt that Haley is as concerned with Hyde's short term contract status as we seem to be.  If Haley believes that Hyde gives the Browns a better chance to win than Chubb, I bet Haley plays the heck out of him.  He will leave it to Dorsey to figure out what to do with Hyde if Hyde has a big year.

 

Durability has always been the knock on Hyde.  While Hyde demonstrated durability last season, it should remain a factor in his valuation.

 

Unless I see a different (less-effective) Hyde during the PS, I am guessing that Chubb won't outshine Hyde when they audition side-by-side.  Hyde remains too good for that to happen.  My evaluation of this backfield is currently colored by that strong belief.  Added to my belief in Hyde is the belief that the Browns' offensive roster is considerably more talented today than their W/L record last season suggests.  Where I ultimately end up in my evaluation of this backfield will depend on futher data points on Haley, Taylor and the new offense that will be unveiled in Cleveland.  Duke Johnson looms as a weapon that may be employed more aggressively.  OTOH, a RPO heavy offense may be just what the doctor ordered for Hyde.  I really feel like I need to see the new offense in action (as vanilla as PS usually is) to start making up my mind about anything.

 

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Not sure why people are even bother speculating on chubb outplaying or starting over Hyde.

 Hyde was a top rb and the best weapon on a crappy team last season. There was zero deterioration of his skillset as a starter.

The entire backfield is talented.

 

Dorsey and the coaching staff have a mandate from the owner to win games, not start rookies because they were top draft prospects.

Dorsey has stated he likes rbbbc but make no mistake that the vets hyde+Duke will get plenty of touches and i think both are ahead of chubb in terms of being able to pass protect which is a skill that keeps a rb on the field in todays NFL.

They bare all bench stashes for fantasy purposes until a pattern of utilization can be determined.

Only injury is going to change the dynamics of this backfield and injury can happen to any rb at any time.

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8 hours ago, dashoe said:

Not sure why people are even bother speculating on chubb outplaying or starting over Hyde.

 

Because if Chubb outplays Hyde he’ll start, which is pretty likely. Look at Dalvin/Latavius last year. 

 

Latavius was one of PFF’s highest “pass protectors” yet Cook came in and took all the touches fairly quickly. Chubb’s on another level compared to Hyde. 

 

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4 minutes ago, boltup15 said:

 

Because if Chubb outplays Hyde he’ll start, which is pretty likely. Look at Dalvin/Latavius last year. 

 

Latavius was one of PFF’s highest “pass protectors” yet Cook came in and took all the touches fairly quickly. Chubb’s on another level compared to Hyde. 

 

 

 I get your point however that is  a terrible example. Latavius was recovering from ankle surgery that kept him out of training camp and preseason. Cook didnt 'take' all of the touches, he was healthy and on the field practicing and latavius was not. Cook was getting first team reps from OTA's through preaseason while Latavius was watching on the sidelines in shorts. 

Hyde is not even close to that type of situation

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On 4/30/2018 at 7:08 AM, Lord_Varys said:

I just personally can't try to rationalize that Cleveland is a good spot for anybody.

 

Good spot for kickers. Great spot for punters.

 

1 hour ago, boltup15 said:

 

Because if Chubb outplays Hyde he’ll start, which is pretty likely. Look at Dalvin/Latavius last year. 

 

Latavius was one of PFF’s highest “pass protectors” yet Cook came in and took all the touches fairly quickly. Chubb’s on another level compared to Hyde. 

 

 

From another vantage, look at the Bengals last year, an RBBC with a talented freshman + Hill and Gio, a worthless fantasy romp that could just as easily happen with Chubb + two veterans.

 

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3 hours ago, cohenstantinople said:

 

 

Good spot for kickers. Great spot for punters.

 

 

From another vantage, look at the Bengals last year, an RBBC with a talented freshman + Hill and Gio, a worthless fantasy romp that could just as easily happen with Chubb + two veterans.

 

 

I agree that could definitely happen as well. 

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:06 PM, boltup15 said:

 

Because if Chubb outplays Hyde he’ll start, which is pretty likely. Look at Dalvin/Latavius last year. 

 

Latavius was one of PFF’s highest “pass protectors” yet Cook came in and took all the touches fairly quickly. Chubb’s on another level compared to Hyde. 

 

True, but Hyde is a better football player than plodder Murray is in essentially every way.

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On 5/7/2018 at 4:06 PM, boltup15 said:

Chubb’s on another level compared to Hyde. 

 

I have seen every snap Hyde has taken as a pro.  I've watched a fair amount of game film on Chubb too.  To my eye, if Chubb is on "another level," it's a lower one.

 

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39 minutes ago, Rolling Thunder said:

 

I have seen every snap Hyde has taken as a pro.  I've watched a fair amount of game film on Chubb too.  To my eye, if Chubb is on "another level," it's a lower one.

 

 

I actually do like hyde quite a bit, but i cant agree with this. Freshman chubb would have battled saquon for the top spot this year. The chubb from 2017 is also better then hyde was in his senior year, imo. The production over his college career speaks for itself as well. They both share great vision but Chubb is also a world-class athlete compared to hyde. Proving something at the nfl level has its value as well, but chubb has the much higher upside IMO. Especially if he keeps getting closer to that freshman form. 

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On 5/7/2018 at 4:47 AM, petekrum said:

Bortles has had some QB1 seasons and has played in an AFC championship game, we’ll see how Bakers resume looks in a few years.

 

Helped win me my league this past season after Wentz went down. You'll never catch me talking smack about BB. 

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57 minutes ago, vikingapocalypse said:

 

I actually do like hyde quite a bit, but i cant agree with this. Freshman chubb would have battled saquon for the top spot this year. The chubb from 2017 is also better then hyde was in his senior year, imo. The production over his college career speaks for itself as well. They both share great vision but Chubb is also a world-class athlete compared to hyde. Proving something at the nfl level has its value as well, but chubb has the much higher upside IMO. Especially if he keeps getting closer to that freshman form. 

 

I only know Chubb from 2017.  Nothing he did in the several games I saw impressed me that much.  Michel, OTOH, impressed me.

 

Hyde had a higher NFL.com draft grade than Chubb (6.15 versus 5.79).  Both were drafted in the 2nd round.

 

Hyde has proven himself as a pro already.  Chubb has not.  

 

It is natural to always assume the best with shiny new toys.  I am not immune to that tendency either.  But I trust my eyes first and foremost (for better or worse).  They tell me that Chubb has nothing over Hyde, at least not yet.

 

I don't mind when someone sees it differently.  I welcome the difference of opinion.

 

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38 minutes ago, Rolling Thunder said:

 

I only know Chubb from 2017.  Nothing he did in the several games I saw impressed me that much.  Michel, OTOH, impressed me.

 

Hyde had a higher NFL.com draft grade than Chubb (6.15 versus 5.79).  Both were drafted in the 2nd round.

 

Hyde has proven himself as a pro already.  Chubb has not.  

 

It is natural to always assume the best with shiny new toys.  I am not immune to that tendency either.  But I trust my eyes first and foremost (for better or worse).  They tell me that Chubb has nothing over Hyde, at least not yet.

 

I don't mind when someone sees it differently.  I welcome the difference of opinion.

 

And even as recent as the National Championship game against Bama, Sony just looked like the superior back.  Chubb could not get anything going, and it seemed like Sony was picking up many chunk yardage plays.  

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1 hour ago, Rolling Thunder said:

 

I don't mind when someone sees it differently.  I welcome the difference of opinion.

 

 

Absoloutely. We will have to agree to disagree, tho i think at times were arguing different points.

Like i said, production in the NFL has major value and its definatley in hydes favor. If Chubb can continue to grow, the type of athlete he is possesses a much higher ceiling IMO. Im not expecting chubb to overtake the reigns year 1. But it wouldnt not surprise me in the least to see them move on from hyde next year if chubb shows something.

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2 minutes ago, vikingapocalypse said:

But it wouldnt not surprise me in the least to see them move on from hyde next year is chubb shows something.

 

This I agree with.  I think they can get out of Hyde after this year pretty easily.  If Chubb shows anything, I think that's what they'll do.

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2 hours ago, vikingapocalypse said:

 

I actually do like hyde quite a bit, but i cant agree with this. Freshman chubb would have battled saquon for the top spot this year. The chubb from 2017 is also better then hyde was in his senior year, imo. The production over his college career speaks for itself as well. They both share great vision but Chubb is also a world-class athlete compared to hyde. Proving something at the nfl level has its value as well, but chubb has the much higher upside IMO. Especially if he keeps getting closer to that freshman form. 

 

As prospects entering the NFL I'd rank them:

 

Freshman Chubb

Senior Hyde

Senior Chubb

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4 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

As prospects entering the NFL I'd rank them:

 

Freshman Chubb

Senior Hyde

Senior Chubb

 

To you and @Rolling Thunder's credit i must have had a different view of hydes senior season in my mind. Discussion forced me to look back on it, and your right - he was pretty darn good.

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Can't see either Chubb or Hyde being start-able unless one of them gets injured. This looks very much like a committee.

 

There's also the issue of game flow, Cleveland has never stayed in games long enough for the running back to do any damage. They're constantly playing from behind. Their defense has improved, at least on paper, but if they aren't competitive, then you'll get the same old underwhelming run game. And this time, there's two backs sharing carries. At least in previous seasons, you had Crowell dominating touches so he was somewhat start-able. Now you have Hyde and Chubb sharing 250+ carries.

 

Best case scenario would be something like a 2014 season: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2014.htm

That particular team was very competitive, and you had the two rookies, West and Crowell, with 150+ carries, and Ben tate was given a run before he was released midway thru the season.

 

Not a backfield i like for fantasy purposes, but i think Duke Johnson will be a decent mid-round pick as he usually is. At least he never comes out of the game.

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If I'm drafting a CLE RB, it's going to be either Duke or Chubb.  Duke is game flow proof, since he is on the field for passing downs and handles some carries as well.  Chubb is the cheapest of the 3 right now on FFC, and I tend to buy into the philosophy that if a team looks like an ugly RBBC, then just take the cheapest guy.  Plus, Hyde tends to get nicked up.  Last year was the first time playing all 16 if I remember correctly.  

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2 hours ago, Fort4242 said:

If I'm drafting a CLE RB, it's going to be either Duke or Chubb.  Duke is game flow proof, since he is on the field for passing downs and handles some carries as well.  Chubb is the cheapest of the 3 right now on FFC, and I tend to buy into the philosophy that if a team looks like an ugly RBBC, then just take the cheapest guy.  Plus, Hyde tends to get nicked up.  Last year was the first time playing all 16 if I remember correctly.  

 

And Dorsey has proclaimed openly that he prefers RBBC.  If Haley is on the same page, then this backfield in DND for me (as much as I respect Hyde and am impressed with Chubb).

 

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On 5/9/2018 at 11:37 AM, JoeJoe88 said:

And even as recent as the National Championship game against Bama, Sony just looked like the superior back.  Chubb could not get anything going, and it seemed like Sony was picking up many chunk yardage plays.  

 

I mean look at the plays Chubb had vs Michel... Every time Chubb was out, Alabama knew they were going to run the ball and gave Chubb zero room to run. 

 

People who say Hyde is “proven”, have a different definition of proven than me. He would have had a better contract, probably one better than McKinnon if he was proven. Don’t get me wrong I think Hyde is good and an underrated rb. However I also think Chubb is superior to Hyde in every facet of the game and was drafted to replace Hyde very soon. 

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4 hours ago, boltup15 said:

 

I mean look at the plays Chubb had vs Michel... Every time Chubb was out, Alabama knew they were going to run the ball and gave Chubb zero room to run. 

 

People who say Hyde is “proven”, have a different definition of proven than me. He would have had a better contract, probably one better than McKinnon if he was proven. Don’t get me wrong I think Hyde is good and an underrated rb. However I also think Chubb is superior to Hyde in every facet of the game and was drafted to replace Hyde very soon. 

 

Bingo. This is why Chubb isn't elite. A two-down banger is his ceiling IMO.

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41 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Bingo. This is why Chubb isn't elite. A two-down banger is his ceiling IMO.

 

Disagree. Chubb can catch the ball perfectly fine. You’re going to say bingo based on how a college team used him? How many times are we going to put bias on a player who didn’t have many receptions in college and say he can’t catch...but Sony Michel can catch with his 9 receptions his senior year...

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