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June Closer Thread 2018


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Kelvin Herrera - Alex Colome Owners Support Group  

Parker getting set before the pitch...  

This is the laziness that frustrates many of us, and just adds to a thread that is already difficult for many people to read through. It’s only 2 pages, and question was asked and answered one page be

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Treinen with the save. Gave up one hit but struck out three. His sinker is 98 mph with wicked movement and his slider is high 80's. He can drop a 100 mph fastball on folks. 16 saves on the year with a 1.03 era. He's been elite. 

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Just now, AnonymousRob said:

Treinen with the save. Gave up one hit but struck out three. His sinker is 98 mph with wicked movement and his slider is high 80's. He can drop a 100 mph fastball on folks. 16 saves on the year with a 1.03 era. He's been elite. 

 

That guy is filthy. 

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6 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Treinen with the save. Gave up one hit but struck out three. His sinker is 98 mph with wicked movement and his slider is high 80's. He can drop a 100 mph fastball on folks. 16 saves on the year with a 1.03 era. He's been elite. 

 

Watching him this year I've been amazed that he's the same guy that crapped himself last year.

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19 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Watching him this year I've been amazed that he's the same guy that crapped himself last year.

 

He was great as soon as he was traded to oakland last year. Like a night and day difference. Idk what spurned the change aside from maybe just the scenery, but he's been superb 

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13 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Yeah, I’m not sure Hand is going anywhere lol

 

I don't think that's entirely insane 

 

Cubs gave Torres for a Chapman rental and Indians gave nice trade package for Miller

 

Hand has 3 more years of control. 

 

 

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I don't think that's insane either really.  It's also one of the reasons why Hand is still in San Diego, as I think they were asking for a king's ransom last year as well and nobody was willing to obviously.  Given his age and dominance, I would too if I were them.  If somebody is willing to give that eventually, great.  If not, then you still have a great closer that's still cheap.

 

My bad on my post earlier about the Giants' situation.  I didn't realize how good Dyson has been this season.  I couldn't have gotten him anyways, so oh well.  He's been far from yuck this season.

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3 hours ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

I don't think that's entirely insane 

 

Cubs gave Torres for a Chapman rental and Indians gave nice trade package for Miller

 

Hand has 3 more years of control. 

 

 

 

Red Sox gave away Shaw, Josh Pennington, and Mauricio Dubon for Tyler Thornburg.

 

Hand is considerably better than Thornburg so for Devers, it's not totally outlandish. 

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2 hours ago, XxxOilOverloadxxX said:

I don't think that's entirely insane 

 

Cubs gave Torres for a Chapman rental and Indians gave nice trade package for Miller

 

Hand has 3 more years of control. 

 

 

 

See MLB tonight comparing Hand to that of an Andrew Miller. Hand could very well be the difference on a championship team. I agree, Devers is a very steep asking price but Hand is under control for 3 years! I think with where the game is evolving to these RPs really carry serious value. A lefty that dominates hitters from both sides of the plate and capable of going a couple innings. Really don't see someone like Devers being moved for him but I wouldn't be surprised to see a bigger name prospect go back in a deal. I think the biggest thing between Devers and Torres is that Torres was traded nearly 2 years before he debuted. As highly touted a prospect we never seen him produce at the MLB level. Devers has 22 HR in less than 500 MLB ABs for his career. Red Sox have some good prospects and I could see one of them going for Hand no problem. I'd be shocked if Devers wasn't pretty close to untouchable in any deal.

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“Other teams have gotten completely ripped off in the past, selling off quality bats for a 1-inning arm.” 

I guess you guys are assuming GMs are still as dumb, or perhaps dumber (as mentioned, prospects different than already in the majors). I’m working under the assumption that a functioning brain will learn from mistakes.

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5 hours ago, absknicks said:

 

Devers has a .720 OPS this season and is a horrific defensive player. Your lack of objectivity pertaining to the Red Sox gets tiresome after a while. 

 

And your lack of knowledge about how the Red Sox front office and Cora view him is getting tiresome.

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6 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Yeah Red Sox would never move a major team cornerstone 30 to 40 home run future star 3B who is playing damn good right now at age 20 as it is for a here today gone tomorrow reliever.  But yeah they should have gotten Herrera at his cheap price.

Devers will be 22 in Oct.

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1 hour ago, Backdoor Slider said:

“Other teams have gotten completely ripped off in the past, selling off quality bats for a 1-inning arm.” 

I guess you guys are assuming GMs are still as dumb, or perhaps dumber (as mentioned, prospects different than already in the majors). I’m working under the assumption that a functioning brain will learn from mistakes.

Not a hitter but the Tigers traded John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander who if memory serves me correctly went 11-0 with the Tigs.

Point being teams will do what they need to do to win now. Take care of the future next year Thats how I play fantasy baseball. Those prospects aren't helping me sitting in the minors.

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7 minutes ago, metropolitans said:

So is Dyson the smart add here? Watson got snagged by the Strickland owner. Im on the fence about adding Sam Dyson though...

 

Pavlovic is the Giants insider, so it would certainly seem that Dyson is the add.  Could he pitch himself out of the job?  Definitely.  But he seems like he will be given the keys to run away with it at this point.  This shouldn't turn into two pages about whether Dyson/Watson/Melancon is the smart add.  

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4 minutes ago, metropolitans said:

So is Dyson the smart add here? Watson got snagged by the Strickland owner. Im on the fence about adding Sam Dyson though...

 

I'd say so. He closed for Bochy last season when Melancon went down, not to mention his 38 saves in 2016. Hes not that attractive due to his career 7.1 k/9 but hes been effective this year and could snag a good handful of saves over the next month or 2. He's also got the chance to run away with the job altogether and finish the year as the closer.

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12 hours ago, KilloWertz said:

I want to have nothing to do with either Watson or Dyson.  Dyson was ok last year as their fill-in closer, but he's been ugly this season.  Watson has great stats, but he was a horrible closer when Pittsburgh game him a chance.  He didn't have the mentality for it then, and I don't see how he would have the mentality for it all of a sudden now.  He'll have little choice but to go back to Melancon at some point.

 

The sad thing is, Strickland probably would have been the closer the rest of the season even with Melancon back.  Blown save aside, he was great this season.  I didn't own him, but I still knew what he was doing.

We always remember the bad first which clouds are judgement.

Yea I understand this /your thought process over Dyson & Watson.

 

Tony Watson once upon a time the best setup reliever in Pittsburgh .. given the job as closer in 2016 and failed

Sam Dyson all of a sudden in 2016 found himself (defaulted ?? injury) as a closer and wow'ed the fantasy world. The following year Dyson was the man and failed.

 

Dyson stats before last nights save are ugly? \\

 

Dyson has my vote of confidence, but I believe Melancon could/might take over the role if he straightens out..

Watson might be a sneaky add for those odd instances when a couple of lefties are coming up in the top of the 9th

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2 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

“Other teams have gotten completely ripped off in the past, selling off quality bats for a 1-inning arm.” 

I guess you guys are assuming GMs are still as dumb, or perhaps dumber (as mentioned, prospects different than already in the majors). I’m working under the assumption that a functioning brain will learn from mistakes.

 

Which examples of getting ripped off are you referring to?  Cubs gave up Torres for a Chapman "rental", but went on to win the World Series with Chapman pitching more innings than every Cubs pitcher outside of 3 starters.  Say what you want about the long term aspects of the deal, but in baseball nowadays if you're one of the handful of teams that have a legit WS shot, you do what you have to do to win it.  Torres might be a star in the making, but that doesn't mean jack if the Cubs are still talking about 100 years WS drought.

 

Andrew Miller brought back a good package, but he was also a huge part of bringing Cleveland to the the World Series that same year.  And he's still pitching for them and doing Andrew Miller things.  The Royals didn't necessarily trade for anyone, but they won their WS on the backs of the bullpen being able to come in and dominate the last half of the game.  And the one thing that almost cost the Astros their WS last year?  Giles and his meltdowns.  

 

The biggest rip-offs are when teams try to swing big deals for relievers in the off-season, IMO.  RP's and their value are a fickle thing - over the course of the regular season, having a dominant 1-inning pitcher might not be as important as having a good group of bats that can keep the offense going throughout the year, or innings-eating starters.  But when you get into the playoffs, those 1-inning guys' value skyrockets.  You're counting down the innings.  If you know you need 11 wins, and you're a team like Houston or Boston that knows you have 3 or so SP's that you can count on shutting down the other team for 6-7 innings a game, all you need is enough bullpen arms to dominate the rest of the way to win it.  

 

Not to mention in April you're 1 of 30+ teams that could win the WS, and by the trade deadline you're likely more in the range of 1 of 10-12 teams (and realistically even fewer).  No team is going to stay dominant forever, so if you're one of the handful of teams that could actually win now, don't squander the talent you have now by nickle and diming your bullpen.  I'm not saying Devers for Hand is a good trade necessarily, and maybe teams like Boston and Chicago have the young talent to sustain success for a while, but those young guys won't do you any good in 5 years when the core of the team is over the hill. 

 

You have to sell out to win now because if you don't someone else will, and over the past few seasons the price for dominant 1-inning guys has been set, and the results speak for themselves.  Sorry for the essay, which is a little off-topic and not even directed specifically at you, but just thinking out loud about the cost of closers and why it is what it has become at this stage in the season.

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15 minutes ago, metropolitans said:

So is Dyson the smart add here? Watson got snagged by the Strickland owner. Im on the fence about adding Sam Dyson though...

 

I think Dyson gets labeled as bad a little unfairly.  Looking at his career he's had success as a closer both in 2016 and late last year, and really the only year he stunk it up was early 2017 - otherwise he's a very steady mid-2's ERA guy.  He's not flashy like most closers because he doesn't throw hard or strike a lot of people out, but his K-rate is respectable enough coupled with his elite GB rate that he gets outs.

 

Not trying to toot my own horn or say that I knew anything more than anyone else before this, but when I heard that Bochy specifically mentioned Watson and Dyson, I was all over Dyson as the logical add given he's the righty, and he closed for Bochy last year.  If you look he's very much tried to play the matchups with Watson against lefties, so at the very least my expectation is Dyson sees most save opps if he continues playing matchups.  

 

Melancon could still get into the discussion later in the year, but I think it's Dyson's to lose now.  Clearly Bochy doesn't feel he can rely on Melancon for back to backs or too many innings a week, and I think he'll continue to get babied for a while.  And if Dyson doesn't give any reason to lose the job, like Strickland before he punched a wall, I can't see a change happening.

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8 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

We always remember the bad first which clouds are judgement.

Yea I understand this /your thought process over Dyson & Watson.

 

Tony Watson once upon a time the best setup reliever in Pittsburgh .. given the job as closer in 2016 and failed

Sam Dyson all of a sudden in 2016 found himself (defaulted ?? injury) as a closer and wow'ed the fantasy world. The following year Dyson was the man and failed.

 

Dyson stats before last nights save are ugly? \\

 

Dyson has my vote of confidence, but I believe Melancon could/might take over the role if he straightens out..

Watson might be a sneaky add for those odd instances when a couple of lefties are coming up in the top of the 9th

 

I definitely think there will be a night here or there where Watson could snipe a save in certain situational plays.  Seems that, for now, Dyson is the best add.  I agree that Melancon will certainly be lurking in the shadows if Dyson and/or Watson were to falter.  Just so hard to justify continuing to pay Melancon that amount of money to be a setup guy.  

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