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2018-19 Off-Season and Hot Stove Thread


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If the Phillies don't land Harper at this point they're going to hear it from the fanbase. Not that they didn't make improvements because they did. However, you can't be involved the entire free agency with the 2 biggest fish available and land neither of them. It'll be another season of a half empty stadium, even if they're winning. 

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Lol. If he leaves, he's a snake, traitor, ring-chaser, etc. If he stays, he's 'soft'.    

Close,  they're 2x dumber

Apologies if anyone already posted this but...    

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6 minutes ago, High&Inside said:

If the Phillies don't land Harper at this point they're going to hear it from the fanbase.

 

OK, but that's a lot different than saying it will significantly affect the haggling over Bryce's contract.  Buddy Ryan said it best: "if you listen to the fans, you'll be sitting up there with them."  The front office isn't dumb enough to think a few more calls into WIP or a couple thousand fewer butts in the seats is worth coughing up an extra $50 million or whatever above their valuation of Harper's performance for the duration of the deal.  (And I'm sure they also have a fairly detailed forecast for how much Harper's worth in terms of filling the stadium baked into their valuation.)

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6 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

 

OK, but that's a lot different than saying it will significantly affect the haggling over Bryce's contract.  Buddy Ryan said it best: "if you listen to the fans, you'll be sitting up there with them."  The front office isn't dumb enough to think a few more calls into WIP or a couple thousand fewer butts in the seats is worth coughing up an extra $50 million or whatever above their valuation of Harper's performance for the duration of the deal.  (And I'm sure they also have a fairly detailed forecast for how much Harper's worth in terms of filling the stadium baked into their valuation.)

My post wasn't disagreeing with you in terms of negotiating when it comes to Harper. Was simply a statement on the blowback that front office will receive.

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1 minute ago, TribeFoo said:

Related: White Sox release Jon Jay, Yonder Alonso, and Welington Castillo.

Kidding, of course. Mostly.

 

Those moves were funny because of the relationship, but I'm shocked at how many people don't think those first two players are quality baseball players who will do better than what the White Sox were likely to play and had almost no acquisition cost. I guess people wanted to see more Adam Engel. 

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12 minutes ago, High&Inside said:

If the Phillies don't land Harper at this point they're going to hear it from the fanbase. Not that they didn't make improvements because they did. However, you can't be involved the entire free agency with the 2 biggest fish available and land neither of them. It'll be another season of a half empty stadium, even if they're winning. 

 

I think it's somewhat warranted... but people don't respect how quality the acquisitions they've made have been this season. They need a pitcher to win more than anything IMO, but their line-up will be scary with or without Harper. 

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Just now, taobball said:

 

I think it's somewhat warranted... but people don't respect how quality the acquisitions they've made have been this season. They need a pitcher to win more than anything IMO, but their line-up will be scary with or without Harper. 

Agreed. I personally am in love with the approach they took. They didn't allow Harper/Machado prevent them from making a set of great moves in improving team defense, obp, and bullpen. I'll love it more if they land Harper

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2 minutes ago, High&Inside said:

Agreed. I personally am in love with the approach they took. They didn't allow Harper/Machado prevent them from making a set of great moves in improving team defense, obp, and bullpen. I'll love it more if they land Harper

 

And I think, while I personally question the rotation to be at the HIGHEST level of the sport, they have one of the deeper farms for a team ready to compete with the players not on that list, and should have the ammo, whether I'm right/wrong, whether it be pitching/hitting, to potentially fill those spots by July 31st. 

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This Phillies fan wants no part of Kimbrel anywhere near the price he's asking.  He's got a lot of innings on his arm, and the velo was down a bit last season.  Robertson, Dominguez, Hunter, Neshek, Nicasio, etc. might not be the Yankees bullpen, but I think it's the best in the NL East, and it's always easy to find bullpen help at the trade deadline.

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12 minutes ago, Weekday Warrior said:

Phillies could always pivot and focus on Craig Kimbrel instead. Why not? A deep bullpen can go a long way toward covering up shortcomings in the rotation, and Gabe isn’t afraid to deploy arms in creative and unorthodox  ways

 

While I do think the Phillies are still in need of some pitching help to truly be contenders, I actually think their BP is a bit underrated. Between injuries, under-performances by key guys, and maybe even questionable management decisions they weren't anything special last year.  Still despite not having a top-tier elite talent guy they have some pretty impressive depth with a decent mix of lefties/righties.  David Robertson, Seranthony Dominguez, Hector Neris, Tommy Hunter, Pat Neshek, Juan Nicasio, Jose Alvarez, James Pazos, Edubray Ramos, Victor Arano: they're all MLB caliber relievers with some serious potential.  They need a few of the vets to bounce back from last year and a few of the young guys to develop but still overall I think they're in solid shape there.

Edited by Baur10
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7 minutes ago, The 7th Beatles said:

 

Was there a opt out after the 5th season? That is pretty huge given he can get $150M over the next five and then become a free agent again at 31yrs old depending what the market is under the next CBA and how he's playing.  Incentives and vesting options put the risk on the player - he got straight up 300M guaranteed money.

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37 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

This Phillies fan wants no part of Kimbrel anywhere near the price he's asking.  He's got a lot of innings on his arm, and the velo was down a bit last season.  Robertson, Dominguez, Hunter, Neshek, Nicasio, etc. might not be the Yankees bullpen, but I think it's the best in the NL East, and it's always easy to find bullpen help at the trade deadline.

 

Couldn't agree more. Kimbrel is a HARD pass for me. I wouldn't hate seeing the team make an offer to Keuchel, however. 

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31 minutes ago, tonycpsu said:

This Phillies fan wants no part of Kimbrel anywhere near the price he's asking.  He's got a lot of innings on his arm, and the velo was down a bit last season.

And that lack of velocity caused his out pitch to be fouled off instead of missed.  Again and again.  He just couldn't blaze his fastball by good hitters any more.  The pitch counts got really high as a result so he would start to nibble more and more to try and get hitters to chase and end of giving up walks.  Then he would loss control and couldn't re-find the plate.  As a Red Sox fan I want no part of his return period.

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

And that lack of velocity caused his out pitch to be fouled off instead of missed.  Again and again.  He just couldn't blaze his fastball by good hitters any more.  The pitch counts got really high as a result so he would start to nibble more and more to try and get hitters to chase and end of giving up walks.  Then he would loss control and couldn't re-find the plate.  As a Red Sox fan I want no part of his return period.

Sorry, but this isn't true.

Kimbrel's fastball Foul% - Wiff% by year:

Year - Foul% - Wiff%

2018- 19.98, 16

2017- 23.46, 21

2016- 22.02, 13

2015- 19.94, 15

2014- 21.85, 16

2013- 22.15, 13

2012- 21.99, 21

2011- 18.37, 14

2010 - 20.38, 14

Career- 21.10, 16

 

His wiff rate on it was 3rd best in his career and in line with career average. His foul% decreased from each of his previous 2 years on the Sox.

Edited by StevieStats
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I find this talk about not wanting Craig Kimbrel shocking, especially from fans of the Red Sox and Phillies who I think don’t have a true closer.  In my book he is still a dominant reliever. He hit a rough patch which a lot of relievers go through. Kimbrel is money. 

Lost control.. ?? In 2016 he walked 30 batters in 53 innings.. last year he walked one more in 9 more innings. 

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10 minutes ago, shakestreet said:

I find this talk about not wanting Craig Kimbrel shocking, especially from fans of the Red Sox and Phillies who I think don’t have a true closer.  In my book he is still a dominant reliever. He hit a rough patch which a lot of relievers go through. Kimbrel is money. 

Lost control.. ?? In 2016 he walked 30 batters in 53 innings.. last year he walked one more in 9 more innings. 

 

As a Sox fan I would love to have him back and I feel that most Sox fans feel the same way. What's they're afraid of is hisong terms contract not paying dividends through to it's end. But in my opinion if he helps them win another WS within a couple years that's well worth it. 

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1 minute ago, BostonCajun said:

 

As a Sox fan I would love to have him back and I feel that most Sox fans feel the same way. What's they're afraid of is hisong terms contract not paying dividends through to it's end. But in my opinion if he helps them win another WS within a couple years that's well worth it. 

No doubt. People that I associate with (western ma) are diehard Red Sox fans want Kimbrel back, because they are weary about trusting Brazier & Barnes in a very important role. 

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19 minutes ago, BostonCajun said:

 

As a Sox fan I would love to have him back and I feel that most Sox fans feel the same way. What's they're afraid of is hisong terms contract not paying dividends through to it's end. But in my opinion if he helps them win another WS within a couple years that's well worth it. 

Absolutely. You need to take some bets like this when your title window is wide open. 

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6 hours ago, shakestreet said:

No doubt. People that I associate with (western ma) are diehard Red Sox fans want Kimbrel back, because they are weary about trusting Brazier & Barnes in a very important role. 

They can't re-sign Sale or Xander if they remotely go after Kimbrel.  I'd rather have Sale any day over a declining Kimbrel.

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^^^^ Exactly. I was pretty surprised they threw that contract at Eovaldi. I think they wanted to secure some of their pitching LT if both Sale and Porcello don't have any interest in re-signing.

Then there is Xander and Mookie to consider soon. Who is going to take a mega deal to keep.

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