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Le'Veon Bell 2018 Outlook


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[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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3 hours ago, Wild Thing said:

 

Hahaha $14.5 million is an insult. What a crazy world we live in. Imagine if we had a time machine and went back to Bell’s senior year in high school and told him, look in 2018 you will make $14.5 million dollars. What do you think he would say to that? It’s just amazing if you think about how these guys all get corrupted.

So people should get paid according to what they think is a lot of money when they're 18, not their actual worth?

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9 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

 

Meanwhile, Osweiler got a 4 year, $72 million deal for playing what, half a season with Denver.

 

Yes, to the guy on the couch watching him he is overpaid and be happy blah blah blah.  Within his profession, he is severely underpaid, and that is what we are talking about here.

 

QBs have been getting grossly overpaid, and this guy who is touching the ball shouldn't see a very nice pay raise?  I don't get it.  Nick Foles just won the Super Bowl.  All those clowns paying Carr, Stafford, Flacco, etc., will attempt to justify it.  Jimmy G just did the same thing. 

 

QB salaries need to come down in my opinion, and this is hopefully the point where it starts equalizing.  There is no reason Bell should make less than Tyrod Taylor.  Their are backup QBs who make more than starting RBs in the NFL.  That is a joke.

 

How much of that money is guaranteed? That’s the amount that matters. And again, do we actually know what the Steelers offered Bell?  I read somewhere that Bell turned down $42 million over 3 years previously. Is that underpaid? RB is completely a devalued position in the real NFL. And maybe those backup QBs should not be making that type of money but then again QB is highly sought after position. Sorta shocked at the amount of people angrily defending a guy who turned down $42 million over 3 years in 2017 and now will be minimally making $14 mil guaranteed next season. 

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12 minutes ago, hoppychokes said:

So people should get paid according to what they think is a lot of money when they're 18, not their actual worth?

 

Ignorant Millennial Way of thinking isn't it? 

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1 minute ago, Wild Thing said:

 

How much of that money is guaranteed? That’s the amount that matters. And again, do we actually know what the Steelers offered Bell?  I read somewhere that Bell turned down $42 million over 3 years previously. Is that underpaid? RB is completely a devalued position in the real NFL. And maybe those backup QBs should not be making that type of money but then again QB is highly sought after position. Sorta shocked at the amount of people angrily defending a guy who turned down $42 million over 3 years in 2017 and now will be minimally making $14 mil guaranteed next season. 

 

Half of it was guaranteed for Osweiler.

RB is devalued in the "real" NFL?  Do you mean they aren't valued enough, or you think they aren't valuable?

A guy who likely doesn't touch the field should make more than a guy who touched the ball more than any other player who wasn't a QB?

Bell could be in the Hall of Fame if his career holds up.  I don't understand why the team is not simply paying him, as long as it isn't unreasonable.  They tagged him last year and already paid that money per year. They are doing it again.  Shouldn't they do some good faith dealing and get a deal done?  I think it is ridiculous that Bell is being looked at like some greedy guy when he goes out and takes hits other positions don't.  Why does a top DT get paid, but the top RB isn't?

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

Half of it was guaranteed for Osweiler.

RB is devalued in the "real" NFL?  Do you mean they aren't valued enough, or you think they aren't valuable?

A guy who likely doesn't touch the field should make more than a guy who touched the ball more than any other player who wasn't a QB?

Bell could be in the Hall of Fame if his career holds up.  I don't understand why the team is not simply paying him, as long as it isn't unreasonable.  They tagged him last year and already paid that money per year. They are doing it again.  Shouldn't they do some good faith dealing and get a deal done?  I think it is ridiculous that Bell is being looked at like some greedy guy when he goes out and takes hits other positions don't.  Why does a top DT get paid, but the top RB isn't?

 

 

 

I mean the perception by NFL teams is that RB are not as valuable as other positions. Is this the first time you are hearing that???

 

The team isn’t paying him - I think - because he has had a lot of carries and the shelf life of a RB to deliver prime numbers is about 3 years. The Steelers are hesitating because they are not going to pay him for past performance but are Leary of his future performance. Also the Steelers have offered him a long term deal that he declined. I have no idea what his counter is. 

 

For the record, I like Bell and would not want to lose him if I was an NFL GM. But there are cap considerations that matter.  And they probably feel that they can franchise and sign him to a deal that makes sense for both sides.  I still think that’s what’s going to happen.

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1 hour ago, hoppychokes said:

So people should get paid according to what they think is a lot of money when they're 18, not their actual worth?

 

I’m not saying that he shouldn’t be paid their his worth. But - the Steelers ARE doing that under the rules right now.  Some on this board are acting like they are insulting him by only paying him what is required, which is $14 million dollars in one year.  I could turn it around and say he should honor the franchise tag and play hard and then he will get his big pay day. Should the NFL change the whole franchise tag - yes. But until they do that is the rule and he should do his job. Or retire at 25. Those are his choices.

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The top guy at his position should never settle/play on the tag...unless there are other factors: recovering from injury, age, long-term suspension issues...& so on.

 

Bell's situation will be interesting...I expect him to log no more than 8-10 sporadic games due to "testy" injury-issues if Pitt does not come up with a bigger deal.

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2 hours ago, Wild Thing said:

 

How much of that money is guaranteed? That’s the amount that matters. And again, do we actually know what the Steelers offered Bell?  I read somewhere that Bell turned down $42 million over 3 years previously. Is that underpaid? RB is completely a devalued position in the real NFL. And maybe those backup QBs should not be making that type of money but then again QB is highly sought after position. Sorta shocked at the amount of people angrily defending a guy who turned down $42 million over 3 years in 2017 and now will be minimally making $14 mil guaranteed next season. 

 

I think that offer had 30m guaranteed.  And reportedly his agent told him to take it. 

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35 minutes ago, Wild Thing said:

I think the franchise tag needs to be abolished.

 

I think being able to use it twice on the same player needs to go. 

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7 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

I think being able to use it twice on the same player needs to go. 

 

I think they should do away with the franchise tag all together. At that point the player has already filled his contractual obligations and should have the right to become an unrestricted free agent and sign wherever he likes.

 

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38 minutes ago, South Carolina said:

 

I think they should do away with the franchise tag all together. At that point the player has already filled his contractual obligations and should have the right to become an unrestricted free agent and sign wherever he likes.

 

 

I agree. Also illegal should be the salary cap. All this stuff is anti-capitalistic. Let the market set the price for everything. Maybe everyone supporting Bell is correct and he is vastly underpaid? Hard to say because we don’t have a free market in football. Would be interesting to see what all these guys would be worth if there was one.

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29 minutes ago, Wild Thing said:

 

I agree. Also illegal should be the salary cap. All this stuff is anti-capitalistic. Let the market set the price for everything. Maybe everyone supporting Bell is correct and he is vastly underpaid? Hard to say because we don’t have a free market in football. Would be interesting to see what all these guys would be worth if there was one.

 

Agree 100%. There's no cap on how much money teams can make or how much merchandise they can sell, etc. Let the market dictate what players are worth.  

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11 hours ago, Wild Thing said:

I’m not saying that he shouldn’t be paid their his worth. But - the Steelers ARE doing that under the rules right now.  Some on this board are acting like they are insulting him by only paying him what is required, which is $14 million dollars in one year.

 

Of course the Steelers are doing what's within the rules.  The Redskins were also within the rules when they played games with Cousins, and look at them now.

 

If I'm the top salesman in a national company, and I look around and see lesser salesman at other branches have 5-year contracts with lots of guaranteed money, but then I look and see that my branch want to keep stringing me along on 12-month contracts with relatively (key word) little guaranteed money  ...that is insulting.   Doing the bare minimum is disrespectful.    I'm going to take my perfect resume to another company that values my skills accordingly.  

 

I get it that RBs have short shelf lives and Bell's already accrued an enormous workload on that body.   But someone is going to pay Bell what he wants because he's that damn good and he should not allow the Steelers to keep using his body like a cheap hooker.  His career is short and he should go out and get everything he can for him and his family while he can.

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9 minutes ago, Lord_Varys said:

 

Of course the Steelers are doing what's within the rules.  The Redskins were also within the rules when they played games with Cousins, and look at them now.

 

If I'm the top salesman in a national company, and I look around and see lesser salesman at other branches have 5-year contracts with lots of guaranteed money, but then I look and see that my branch want to keep stringing me along on 12-month contracts with relatively (key word) little guaranteed money  ...that is insulting.   Doing the bare minimum is disrespectful.    I'm going to take my perfect resume to another company that values my skills accordingly.  

 

I get it that RBs have short shelf lives and Bell's already accrued an enormous workload on that body.   But someone is going to pay Bell what he wants because he's that damn good and he should not allow the Steelers to keep using his body like a cheap hooker.  His career is short and he should go out and get everything he can for him and his family while he can.

 

I agree with you that I would pay Bell. But I’m not the Steelers. What you are failing to account for is your future sales in this example. Rb more than any other position does not have a long shelf life. Teams do not pay for past but rather future production. The Steelers are probably more worried about that than you or I.  Someone will pay Bell and they may or may not get the value of that contract out of him. All this goes away if the system did away with the franchise tag which will never happen.

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18 hours ago, Wild Thing said:

 

I mean the perception by NFL teams is that RB are not as valuable as other positions. Is this the first time you are hearing that???

 

The team isn’t paying him - I think - because he has had a lot of carries and the shelf life of a RB to deliver prime numbers is about 3 years. The Steelers are hesitating because they are not going to pay him for past performance but are Leary of his future performance. Also the Steelers have offered him a long term deal that he declined. I have no idea what his counter is. 

 

For the record, I like Bell and would not want to lose him if I was an NFL GM. But there are cap considerations that matter.  And they probably feel that they can franchise and sign him to a deal that makes sense for both sides.  I still think that’s what’s going to happen.

 

I'm aware of the perception.  Yet, the Steelers tagged and paid him last year.   If he was not valuable and easily replaceable, why didn't they do it?  Here they are again going to pay top dollar for him on a per year basis.  If the NFL isn't going to value RB, then they the Steelers shouldn't worry about cutting him, then re-signing on a cheaper deal and simply one up the highest bidder.  They can't have it both way. 

 

The Steelers also had issues with Brown, who they finally paid again.  I just don't see the point of hemming and hawing over this from the front office when they have made it clear they won't let him leave town.  Pay him, and be done with it.  If they don't think he is worth it, then let him walk. 

 

It should also be noted that Bell getting the most possible helps other RBs who are tagged, and in future contracts.  Right now, Eric Ebron is going to make more than any RB not named Bell.  Think about that.

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4 minutes ago, Sternes said:

 

I'm aware of the perception.  Yet, the Steelers tagged and paid him last year.   If he was not valuable and easily replaceable, why didn't they do it?  Here they are again going to pay top dollar for him on a per year basis.  If the NFL isn't going to value RB, then they the Steelers shouldn't worry about cutting him, then re-signing on a cheaper deal and simply one up the highest bidder.  They couldn't have it both way. 

 

The Steelers also had issues with Brown, who they finally paid again.  I just don't see the point of hemming and hawing over this from the front office when they have made it clear they won't let him leave town.  Pay him, and be done with it.  If they don't think he is worth it, then let him walk. 

 

It should also be noted that Bell getting the most possible helps other RBs who are tagged, and in future contracts.  Right now, Eric Ebron is going to make more than any not named Bell.  Think about that.

 

Well they are doing it this way because it benefits the Steelers. They are minimizing their risk and retaining control. It shouldn’t be allowed.

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1 minute ago, Wild Thing said:

 

Well they are doing it this way because it benefits the Steelers. They are minimizing their risk and retaining control. It shouldn’t be allowed.

 

The problem is they aren't factoring in future deals.  If you are a FA, you might shy away.  If you are a player, this might alienate you.  Why would you ever give a hometown discount?  Why would you even try for a reasonable deal?  Just demand something absurd, let them tag you for the max, or release you.

 

Teams have all the leverage in these deals.  None of these deals are fully guaranteed.  They could front load a deal for $20 million in 2018, $18 million in 2019, $5 million in 2020, $20 million in 2021, and everyone and their mother would know there will be a restructuring or a cut in 2020.  It happens every time. 

 

I'll laugh if Bell sits out all year, or retires, and the Steelers sit there dumbfounded wondering what happened.

 

 

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What's the latest he can sit out before coming in and playing out his last year under Steelers control ?

 

It's been done before and if there are hard enough feelings I'd play hard ball back @ the front office. Sure you only get 1/2 the money but @ some point it isn't about the money anymore.Play a game of chicken ... Not chicken soup for the soul for FA football player.

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1 hour ago, howlin' 2 said:

What's the latest he can sit out before coming in and playing out his last year under Steelers control ?

 

It's been done before and if there are hard enough feelings I'd play hard ball back @ the front office. Sure you only get 1/2 the money but @ some point it isn't about the money anymore.Play a game of chicken ... Not chicken soup for the soul for FA football player.

 

I think he until week 10 to guarantee the franchise money.

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20 hours ago, 96mnc said:

 

I think being able to use it twice on the same player needs to go. 

 

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

Bell can play the tag game through next year. They'll owe him about $17 million, then they can't do it again...he goes to Cleveland in 2020 for a billion gadgillion dollars.

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