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Le'Veon Bell 2018 Outlook


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[Automated message: This outlook thread for the 2018 season will be locked on 2019-01-31. Please finish any 2018 discussions here, and take any 2019 outlook discussions to the 2019 outlook thread . If one does not exist, feel free to create one. Thanks!]

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3 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

Bell can play the tag game through next year. They'll owe him about $17 million, then they can't do it again...he goes to Cleveland in 2020 for a billion gadgillion dollars.

 

Yes, it favors the player financially. But they still don't have the freedom go play wherever they want. 

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21 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

Bell can play the tag game through next year. They'll owe him about $17 million, then they can't do it again...he goes to Cleveland in 2020 for a billion gadgillion dollars.

The tag money is good for the players, yes.  That doesnt mean the tag favors players. Why do they want long term deals then? Because they want guarantees past 1 year. They don't mind giving up a couple million for year 1 to insure they make money year 2 and year 3.  

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23 minutes ago, South Carolina said:

 

Yes, it favors the player financially. But they still don't have the freedom go play wherever they want. 

 

Rookie contract is 4 years with a 5th year team option. If a long term deal is not completed year 4, the team can exercise the year 5 option, which is fully guaranteed. 

After year 5, the team can franchise the player up to three times. Premiums apply (over 100% of top 5 position salaries after the first franchise tag). After 8 years in the league, the player become truly unrestricted. 

 

8 years in the NFL is expiration for many positions. That's why players hold out and request trades.

He certainly isn't going to a better team willing to pay him more.  If he wants another big deal after age 30, he should fully transition to WR, which is why he's holding out for more money. 

 

The Browns could trade for him, give him a $100 million contract for 5 years and give him half this season because they have that much cap space.  That's what he wants. Pit is running out of Big Ben time (fantastic pun) and are not giving him up.

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As a Steeler fan, it looks like this will be Bell's last season in Pittsburgh. Interested to see what the #'s are on the offered contracts.What we offer him last year was rumored to be around 13 a year. Which is wayyy more then any other running back is making.

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34 minutes ago, jmausen said:

 

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

Bell can play the tag game through next year. They'll owe him about $17 million, then they can't do it again...he goes to Cleveland in 2020 for a billion gadgillion dollars.

 

Brees negotiated into his contract that he couldn't be franchised.  That's the ONLY reason he can't be franchised right now.    There isn't a limit on how many times a player can be tagged in a row.   

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4 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

Brees negotiated into his contract that he couldn't be franchised.  That's the ONLY reason he can't be franchised right now.    There isn't a limit on how many times a player can be tagged in a row.   

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8126187/drew-brees-new-orleans-saints-wins-franchise-tag-ruling

 

Sorry. :(

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6 minutes ago, 96mnc said:

 

I stand corrected.   I did not know there was a three time limit. 

 

Unrelated, Brees has made 194m thus far in his career...

 

Been there myself.  We all have. 

 

Sucks when she really is right and we're not just agreeing with her. 

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On 3/6/2018 at 9:30 AM, youngrice said:

Since 2000 how many teams actually had a superstar RB that won the Superbowl.  I can only think of 1 in Faulk maybe 2 if you count Lynch.  I still think Pitt or some other team will pay him big money.  But to your point there is a reason RB is the only position that has not grown with the Cap.  

 

Out of 18 probably 10 had dominant RB's. I think this post is very off base IMO. 

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1 hour ago, jmausen said:

 

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

Bell can play the tag game through next year. They'll owe him about $17 million, then they can't do it again...he goes to Cleveland in 2020 for a billion gadgillion dollars.

 

What if you're the best player coming off a rookie contract?  Seems like a good way to limit the salaries for the top players.

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12 minutes ago, RustyMiller said:

 

What if you're the best player coming off a rookie contract?  Seems like a good way to limit the salaries for the top players.

 

"Collective bargaining agreement."

 

The players union is not going to boycott an NFL season because Drew Brees has been tagged too may times, or Le'Veon Bell is kinda almost as good at his position as Aaron Donald is at his.

 

Donald is in the same situation and worth a lot more on a long term deal. LA is trading away their team to pay Donald.  DTs do not average 10 sacks a season. Ever! That's obscene!

 

Bell gets the tag. He's being a whiny b!tch and nobody cares.

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It's been mentioned lightly but Le'Veon is almost a top ten receiver in addition to being a top 3 rusher... yet a tagged receiver gets paid more. Bell Damn near is Jarvis Landry without even running the ball once.

 

Who's worth more to a team ... A. Robinson / S. Watkins / Le'Veon ???

 

The position designation is ludicrous just as it was when Jimmy Graham lobbied for WR designation status. Major difference in pricing. Not a Le'Veon fan myself but I applaud him for bucking the system. 

 

If the Steelers want to hide behind the labor agreement to justify their bargaining tactic as if they are bound by it (they aren't) then Bell should use basic labor logic as his justification. If you want to limit my potential earnings then I will limit my potential usage. Whether that's skipping camp, sitting out games or taking more breathers to assure I'm not playing @ less than 100% strength each play. You don't appreciate the wear and tear of my excessive usage, then I won't be used in that manner anymore.

 

The Steelers are looking out for their future prospects and conserving cap space . Being fiscally responsible. Then Bell is being physically responsible so that he can be fiscally viable longer by extending his career. Pittsburgh took care of Ben & Antonio so they chose to put themselves in this salary cap bind. If Le'Veon thinks he should be able to command near as much as them I can't argue with him. If the front office doesn't think he could get more elsewhere they'd have made him a restricted FA when they had the chance. They didn't then and they don't want to get into a bidding war now because they know teams that have the cap space would pay Bell more than the tag price.

 

It is what is ... they already know what Le'Veon is capable of doing ...both on & off the field. If they don't mind starting off the season not clicking on all cylinders then repeat history. As anti-Steelers fan and a Never Le'Veon owner I enjoy the circumstances. The sideshow circus is fun to watch. 

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15 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

Out of 18 probably 10 had dominant RB's. I think this post is very off base IMO. 

Please enlighten me?? I can count 10 that didn't without even looking.  5 with the Pat, 2 with the Giants, Saints, GB and Denver.

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20 hours ago, DancingGnome said:

As a Steeler fan, it looks like this will be Bell's last season in Pittsburgh. Interested to see what the #'s are on the offered contracts.What we offer him last year was rumored to be around 13 a year. Which is wayyy more then any other running back is making.

 

 

I think the problem is the salary cap.  teams already mortgage their futures paying their QB's to some extent so when it comes to a rb, a position that many coaches and gm's think is a replaceable part, they are resistant to opening up the checkbook to keep the rb. 

Kudos for Bell to fighting for his money in theory but the economic realities of a salary cap can't be defeated.

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21 hours ago, jmausen said:

You guys need to understand how the tag works.  It favors the players.

Average of top 5 players the FIRST time you are tagged.  Goes up for multiple tags.  There is a limit.  Brees has maxed and cannot be tagged anymore. He is an unrestricted untaggable free agent.

 

You really think that the NFL owners came up with something that benefits the players rather than them? The owners use it to their advantage so rampantly that the NFLPA didn't even try to get it repealed during collective bargaining bc they knew they the owners would fight for it so feverishly that it would put other more achievable negotiations in jeopardy. 

 

I personally don't believe a franchise tag to be the end of the world for a player, but it favors owners and GMs, not players.

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5 minutes ago, Wild Thing said:

One of my league mates said that Bell came out today saying he would not miss games holding out and that worst case he would play under the franchise. Is this true?

 

He said he was going to basically do the exact same thing as last year.  Come in one week before the first game.

This doesn't mean he wont get an extended contract though.  He seemed like he was expecting the tag.

Having the best RB, WR and a top QB has it pluses.  But eventually you're going to run into cap problems like they're in now.

Maybe Antonio's restructured contract is a sign that they're trying to work with Bell.

 

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Had Pittsburgh squashed this last year they wouldn't be in this position. It would have been much cheaper a year ago. Now they are  2 franchise tags deep and still have no contract. And nobody is gonna trade for him.

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8 hours ago, youngrice said:

Please enlighten me?? I can count 10 that didn't without even looking.  5 with the Pat, 2 with the Giants, Saints, GB and Denver.

 

2000 - Rams - Faulk

2001 - Ravens - Lewis

2002 - Patriots - Smith

2003 - Bucs - Pittman did have 1200 total yards but we can exclude him

2004 - Patriots - Faulk did have 1000 total yards but we can exclude

2005 - Patriots - Dillon 

2006 - Steelers - Parker

2007 - Colts - Addai

2008 - Giants - Jacobs

2009 - Steelers - None

2010 - Saints - Thomas did have 1100 total yards but we can exclude 

2011 - Packers - None

2012 - Giants - None

2013 - Ravens - Rice

2014 - Seahawks - Lynch

 

I'll stop here. There's quite a bit of questionable too. 

 

CJA was a pro bowler in 2014 then in a time share in 2015 where him and Hillman combined got close to 2000 total yards. 

 

RB's have always been valuable. Teams today have just gotten in a room. Closed the doors behind them and said... We can't make the cap work without screwing someone. And they all agreed it would be the RB. 

 

Carlos Hyde does a hell of a lot more for the 49ers than Goodwin, but they just instantly paid that JAG and are likely going to let Hyde walk cause they don't want to pay him $5 M annually. 

 

NFL is a joke the way they treat RB's. And this list would have Lynch on it 2x if the stupid Seahawks would have put the ball in their most dominant player's hands instead of trying to prove to themselves they didn't need him. 

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On 3/7/2018 at 7:29 PM, jmausen said:

 

"Collective bargaining agreement."

 

The players union is not going to boycott an NFL season because Drew Brees has been tagged too may times, or Le'Veon Bell is kinda almost as good at his position as Aaron Donald is at his.

 

Donald is in the same situation and worth a lot more on a long term deal. LA is trading away their team to pay Donald.  DTs do not average 10 sacks a season. Ever! That's obscene!

 

Bell gets the tag. He's being a whiny b!tch and nobody cares.

 

Ever? 

 

In Houston we have a guy that used to be healthy named JJ Watt that twice got 20.

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4 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

I made adjustment to years the teams actually won

1999 - Rams - Faulk

2000 - Ravens - Lewis(Rookie year,  had a good year but not a great RB)

2001 - Patriots - Smith(Come on a good player never great)

2002 - Bucs - Pittman did have 1200 total yards but we can exclude him

2003 - Patriots - Faulk did have 1000 total yards but we can exclude

2004 - Patriots - Dillon(had some good years but nowhere close to great)

2005 - Steelers - Parker(come on 4tds?)

2006 - Colts - Addai(spilt work with Rhodes, is 1086 and 7tds really dominate???)

2007- Giants - Jacobs(Lol)

2008-  Steelers - None

2009 - Saints - Mike Bell lead the team in carries(lol)

2010 - Packers - None

2011 - Giants - None

2012 - Ravens - Rice(had a good season, but was on back end of his career)

2013 - Seahawks - Lynch

 

I'll stop here. There's quite a bit of questionable too. 

 

CJA was a pro bowler in 2014 then in a time share in 2015 where him and Hillman combined got close to 2000 total yards. 

 

RB's have always been valuable. Teams today have just gotten in a room. Closed the doors behind them and said... We can't make the cap work without screwing someone. And they all agreed it would be the RB. 

 

Carlos Hyde does a hell of a lot more for the 49ers than Goodwin, but they just instantly paid that JAG and are likely going to let Hyde walk cause they don't want to pay him $5 M annually. 

 

NFL is a joke the way they treat RB's. And this list would have Lynch on it 2x if the stupid Seahawks would have put the ball in their most dominant player's hands instead of trying to prove to themselves they didn't need him. 

So I actually change my first thought since technically Faulk season was 1999.  Since 2000 the only team with a great RB is possibly Lynch with Seattle and that is questionable.  

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Which one of those running backs from your Super Bowl list caught 85 passes in a single year ? Not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Bell is a huge percentage of the Steelers offense compared to probably all of those RB's not named Faulk,  Not to mention all but 2-3 in the game today.

 

Yes the CBA is a crappy agreement for the NFLPA. Worst one in pro sports. Bell is trying to force a change in the way it is used. Curt Flood did it in baseball. Took a stand that even some teammates didn't like because he didn't just go along with the system. Owners have an updated Plantation Mentality. Billionaire Boys Club that want anti-trust exemptions & protection for taxation purposes but free to make as much as they can on the open market in ticket sales. Even after they get public funding and millions of dollars in perks by holding communities hostage. Then turn around and gouge the fans for all they can in ticket prices. Capitalism at it's finest for them. Just not for the players in the VAST majority of their limited career.

But the players have only themselves and their union to blame. Credit to Bell for sticking his neck out there for exposing the ridiculous system.

 

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10 hours ago, Dreams And Dwightmares said:

 

2000 - Rams - Faulk

2001 - Ravens - Lewis

2002 - Patriots - Smith

2003 - Bucs - Pittman did have 1200 total yards but we can exclude him

2004 - Patriots - Faulk did have 1000 total yards but we can exclude

2005 - Patriots - Dillon 

2006 - Steelers - Parker

2007 - Colts - Addai

2008 - Giants - Jacobs

2009 - Steelers - None

2010 - Saints - Thomas did have 1100 total yards but we can exclude 

2011 - Packers - None

2012 - Giants - None

2013 - Ravens - Rice

2014 - Seahawks - Lynch

 

I'll stop here. There's quite a bit of questionable too. 

 

CJA was a pro bowler in 2014 then in a time share in 2015 where him and Hillman combined got close to 2000 total yards. 

 

RB's have always been valuable. Teams today have just gotten in a room. Closed the doors behind them and said... We can't make the cap work without screwing someone. And they all agreed it would be the RB. 

 

Carlos Hyde does a hell of a lot more for the 49ers than Goodwin, but they just instantly paid that JAG and are likely going to let Hyde walk cause they don't want to pay him $5 M annually. 

 

NFL is a joke the way they treat RB's. And this list would have Lynch on it 2x if the stupid Seahawks would have put the ball in their most dominant player's hands instead of trying to prove to themselves they didn't need him. 

 

Thats hardly an impressive list. Not exactly packed with current or future hall of famers. Perhaps it's more important to have a good O-Line rather than a "great" RB? That's my conclusion. 

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11 hours ago, South Carolina said:

Had Pittsburgh squashed this last year they wouldn't be in this position. It would have been much cheaper a year ago. Now they are  2 franchise tags deep and still have no contract. And nobody is gonna trade for him.

 

 

I don't think Pitt is concerned about locking up Bell long term. I think their focus is more on winning a couple of titles with Big Ben before he hangs up the cleats.  Everyone can talk about the greatness of AB and Bell but the reality is Big Ben is the engine of this entire offense  and without him the others are very expendable. 

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7 hours ago, youngrice said:

So I actually change my first thought since technically Faulk season was 1999.  Since 2000 the only team with a great RB is possibly Lynch with Seattle and that is questionable.  

 

Lol. OK. If you make your own rules you will never lose. 

 

My dad taught me that when I was finally able to physically beat him in basketball. 

 

I see he taught you as well. 

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