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only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

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24 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

Yep.

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47 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

You mention real baseball, then make a plea for holds, which isn’t a real baseball stat.

I simply disagree. Fantasy owners need to adjust, just as FF owners had to adjust to “RBBC.” The “true” closers now hold more value and should be treated as such. People should be drafting accordingly. The rest will have to decide the value of having in a good/very good P who will finish with 12-15 saves. 

It seems as if supply/demand has changed, and some of you aren’t ready to adjust.

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2 minutes ago, Backdoor Slider said:

You mention real baseball, then make a plea for holds, which isn’t a real baseball stat.

I simply disagree. Fantasy owners need to adjust, just as FF owners had to adjust to “RBBC.” The “true” closers now hold more value and should be treated as such. People should be drafting accordingly. The rest will have to decide the value of having in a good/very good P who will finish with 12-15 saves. 

It seems as if supply/demand has changed, and some of you aren’t ready to adjust.

 

holds is a real baseball stat. I said fantasy is lagging behind real baseball, where real baseball is putting less importance on only using a set closer in the 9th.

as long as there is only saves in fantasy then it's putting in more luck than skill.

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15 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

holds is a real baseball stat. I said fantasy is lagging behind real baseball, where real baseball is putting less importance on only using a set closer in the 9th.

as long as there is only saves in fantasy then it's putting in more luck than skill.

I don’t think it’s an official stat..

 

Regardless I couldn’t disagree more. Saves are now harder to find in one player. As Backdoor Slider said that’s just a market adjustment which requires skill to adapt to.

Edited by Magoo
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6 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

holds is a real baseball stat. I said fantasy is lagging behind real baseball, where real baseball is putting less importance on only using a set closer in the 9th.

as long as there is only saves in fantasy then it's putting in more luck than skill.

 

It’s not lagging. Not everyone wants to use “Holds” as a category and that’s fine. If you enjoy using “Solds” (Saves+Holds) thats great but don’t say that the fantasy baseball community as a whole is lagging behind because you believe it should be a standard. I personally believe holds are lame but I don’t make mention about it. 

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1 minute ago, ImHighandInside said:

 

It’s not lagging. Not everyone wants to use “Holds” as a category and that’s fine. If you enjoy using “Solds” (Saves+Holds) thats great but don’t say that the fantasy baseball community as a whole is lagging behind because you believe it should be a standard. I personally believe holds are lame but I don’t make mention about it. 

You just mentioned it. 

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19 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

holds is a real baseball stat. I said fantasy is lagging behind real baseball, where real baseball is putting less importance on only using a set closer in the 9th.

as long as there is only saves in fantasy then it's putting in more luck than skill.

Holds is an unofficial statistic. There’s even still some ambiguity as to how to score specific situations. No thanks.

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1 hour ago, SpecialFNK said:

only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

 

We switched to saves + holds last year on a 12-0 vote and switched back this year on a 12-0 vote. It really devalued the position. Sure, more setup man became rosterable but there were an infinite number of RP options for teams. Supply outpaced demand. 

 

Sometimes it’s better for fantasy baseball to “lag behind” real baseball. I have no interest in dropping Batting Average for wOBA.

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2 hours ago, SpecialFNK said:

only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

Most private leagues already use that category and have for years.  I don't get what you are saying?

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2 hours ago, SpecialFNK said:

only using Saves in fantasy baseball is lagging behind real baseball where many teams don't have a set closer and use their best reliever (typically closer) in any late inning. would like to see fantasy baseball go with Solds (saves + holds) in the near future.

 

1 hour ago, SpecialFNK said:

 

holds is a real baseball stat. I said fantasy is lagging behind real baseball, where real baseball is putting less importance on only using a set closer in the 9th.

as long as there is only saves in fantasy then it's putting in more luck than skill.

 

Saves/holds? Barf. No thanks. You said that using just saves is using more luck than skill...the insinuation being that using saves+holds uses more skill than luck. And frankly, I could not disagree with you more on that. What skill is there in going down the list of FAs and picking up any number of guys getting saves+holds? It devalues the position, and when you devalue that position, i'ts not a matter of skill...it's just making things easier for owners. When you talk about skill, the underlying belief is that gaining a skill comes with a challenge, making things more difficult. Going saves+holds does not do that in my perspective. To me, there is no more skill in putting together a relief staff that will get saves+holds than there is in picking RPs who will get saves.

I've played in a saves+holds league before, and there is simply no attraction to that for me. There is for you, and that is fine...great even. I love the different ways to play this game we all love. What sticks in my craw is when someone states that all of fantasy baseball should go with a particular category, or get rid of a particular category, or go with a certain format. You like saves+holds? Great...then just state that and go find the leagues that offer that stat. But don't go assuming that it's better for everyone just because you like it. 

Edited by Flyman75
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I'm not sure where to post this, but this year I was in a slow draft (2 hour unofficial per pick) 20 rounds (7 keepers) as well as a fast draft (1 strict minute per pick) 24 rounds (redraft).  Having never done such a fast paced draft, and not aware of the exact time limits, I was pleasantly surprised that I felt OK with the results.

 

Question for the board then is what is your preference?  I think for dynasty drafting, I certainly prefer the slow style.

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2 hours ago, ImHighandInside said:

 

It’s not lagging. Not everyone wants to use “Holds” as a category and that’s fine. If you enjoy using “Solds” (Saves+Holds) thats great but don’t say that the fantasy baseball community as a whole is lagging behind because you believe it should be a standard. I personally believe holds are lame but I don’t make mention about it. 

 

I don't know a better word to use than lagging. fantasy baseball is slow behind real baseball. when major league managers are using their "closer" (best reliever/not really closer) in the 8th/7th or even 6th inning and then a random reliever in the 9th to get the "save" then the save category is flawed in fantasy.

 

1 hour ago, hailtoyourvictor said:

 

We switched to saves + holds last year on a 12-0 vote and switched back this year on a 12-0 vote. It really devalued the position. Sure, more setup man became rosterable but there were an infinite number of RP options for teams. Supply outpaced demand. 

 

Sometimes it’s better for fantasy baseball to “lag behind” real baseball. I have no interest in dropping Batting Average for wOBA.

 

that is basically who is getting "saves" now. look at some of the names of pitchers that have a save this early and there are a bunch that most would have never heard of. it's early/mid April and I imagine it's going to get worse as the season goes on.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Most private leagues already use that category and have for years.  I don't get what you are saying?

 

that is should be standard, like in public leagues for Yahoo.

 

1 hour ago, Flyman75 said:

 

 

Saves/holds? Barf. No thanks. You said that using just saves is using more luck than skill...the insinuation being that using saves+holds uses more skill than luck. And frankly, I could not disagree with you more on that. What skill is there in going down the list of FAs and picking up any number of guys getting saves+holds? It devalues the position, and when you devalue that position, i'ts not a matter of skill...it's just making things easier for owners. When you talk about skill, the underlying belief is that gaining a skill comes with a challenge, making things more difficult. Going saves+holds does not do that in my perspective. To me, there is no more skill in putting together a relief staff that will get saves+holds than there is in picking RPs who will get saves.

I've played in a saves+holds league before, and there is simply no attraction to that for me. There is for you, and that is fine...great even. I love the different ways to play this game we all love. What sticks in my craw is when someone states that all of fantasy baseball should go with a particular category, or get rid of a particular category, or go with a certain format. You like saves+holds? Great...then just state that and go find the leagues that offer that stat. But don't go assuming that it's better for everyone just because you like it. 

 

I don't know the exact rules of what is a hold, but I assume it would be the same for saves but just in the 8th/7th inning. if the best reliever (typically closer) pitches in the 7th or 8th and then some random reliever in the 9th for the save, then fantasy managers should get something for their team for the reliever that pitched the 7th/8th. maybe change baseball rules to credit a save in any of the last 3 innings rather than just the 9th to end the game.

I don't see a skill in picking up some of the random relievers to get saves out of some of the pitchers that so far have a save. these are the type of players that could be getting saves for teams that use their better relievers earlier in games.. Roenis Elías, David Hernandez, Hunter Wood, Alex Wilson, Nick Rumbelow, Miguel Castro, Mike Wright, Jon Duplantier, Paul Fry, Justin Wilson.

by the end of the season there could be many teams in baseball that have multiple relievers with double digit saves that are not the team's best reliever. if that is the case then saves in fantasy is flawed and useless. it would be unfortunate if someone won a league because of the saves category if this happens.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, SpecialFNK said:

By the end of the season there could be many teams in baseball that have multiple relievers with double digit saves that are not the team's best reliever. if that is the case then saves in fantasy is flawed and useless. it would be unfortunate if someone won a league because of the saves category if this happens.

We use holds and I'm always surprised by the outings that qualify. I've seen guys give up four runs in an inning and still get one. Jalen Beeks at least once last year came in with a lead and pitched multiple strong innings and got neither a win or a hold. 

Really, wins, quality starts, holds, and saves are all terribly flawed but we sort of have to deal with them. IP K WHIP and ERA are the best measures of a pitching staff, in my book. 

Edited by Hanghow
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I'm wondering if any leagues have included some form of a continuation of their playoffs in fantasy in line when actual MLB playoffs begin.  The reason this interests me is with all the late season injuries as well as "resting players" down the stretch, this really impacts fantasy leagues so I'm thinking of doing some extension to our playoffs later this season.  Would appreciate any input and ideas, thanks!  Grant. 

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33 minutes ago, Mr. G said:

I'm wondering if any leagues have included some form of a continuation of their playoffs in fantasy in line when actual MLB playoffs begin.  The reason this interests me is with all the late season injuries as well as "resting players" down the stretch, this really impacts fantasy leagues so I'm thinking of doing some extension to our playoffs later this season.  Would appreciate any input and ideas, thanks!  Grant. 

I think it's an absolutely terrible idea. A handful of players would be weighted more than the other players who did not make the playoffs. One team in your league could theoretically have an entire lineup filled with playoff players and another team could have a team filled with non-playoff players. 

It would artificially increase the value of players on good teams for no real skilled based reason.

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57 minutes ago, CrypTviLL said:

I think it's an absolutely terrible idea. A handful of players would be weighted more than the other players who did not make the playoffs. One team in your league could theoretically have an entire lineup filled with playoff players and another team could have a team filled with non-playoff players. 

It would artificially increase the value of players on good teams for no real skilled based reason.

Well eventually real leagues will have an entire reserve squad playing the last month of the season when fantasy is in the playoffs.  Then what?  I'm just looking for a solution to this issue.  Do you have an alternate idea?  Thanks!

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1 minute ago, Mr. G said:

Well eventually real leagues will have an entire reserve squad playing the last month of the season when fantasy is in the playoffs.  Then what?  I'm just looking for a solution to this issue.  Do you have an alternate idea?  Thanks!

Finish your season a month early then. I actually do this in my H2H leagues.. my season finishes in the first few days of September.

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1 minute ago, CrypTviLL said:

Finish your season a month early then. I actually do this in my H2H leagues.. my season finishes in the first few days of September.

Good idea, might have to do it that way.

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On 4/9/2019 at 1:52 PM, SpecialFNK said:

 

I don't know a better word to use than lagging. fantasy baseball is slow behind real baseball. when major league managers are using their "closer" (best reliever/not really closer) in the 8th/7th or even 6th inning and then a random reliever in the 9th to get the "save" then the save category is flawed in fantasy.

 

 

that is basically who is getting "saves" now. look at some of the names of pitchers that have a save this early and there are a bunch that most would have never heard of. it's early/mid April and I imagine it's going to get worse as the season goes on.

 

 

 

that is should be standard, like in public leagues for Yahoo.

 

 

I don't know the exact rules of what is a hold, but I assume it would be the same for saves but just in the 8th/7th inning. if the best reliever (typically closer) pitches in the 7th or 8th and then some random reliever in the 9th for the save, then fantasy managers should get something for their team for the reliever that pitched the 7th/8th. maybe change baseball rules to credit a save in any of the last 3 innings rather than just the 9th to end the game.

I don't see a skill in picking up some of the random relievers to get saves out of some of the pitchers that so far have a save. these are the type of players that could be getting saves for teams that use their better relievers earlier in games.. Roenis Elías, David Hernandez, Hunter Wood, Alex Wilson, Nick Rumbelow, Miguel Castro, Mike Wright, Jon Duplantier, Paul Fry, Justin Wilson.

by the end of the season there could be many teams in baseball that have multiple relievers with double digit saves that are not the team's best reliever. if that is the case then saves in fantasy is flawed and useless. it would be unfortunate if someone won a league because of the saves category if this happens.

 

And I don't see a skill in picking up some of the random relievers to get saves+holds. 

Why are you stuck on this "best reliever" thing? If you want a BR position, then figure out how to add one. But you're griping about the better relievers not necessarily getting all the saves and fussing about multiple relievers getting double-digit saves. I find that quite ironic from someone who is pushing for saves+holds. 

I fail to see how it's unfortunate if someone wins the saves cat because he's rostered a few guys along the way who got a few saves. It's part of the game, and many of us like playing that game. It would be no more unfortunate than someone who managed to win saves+holds because that takes no more skill or fantasy baseball ability than accumulating saves. 

Now...I've said my piece. I'm not going to debate with you any more about it because I know you have a propensity to argue in circles. I disagree with you and will agree to disagree if you refrain from assuming you know what's best for all fantasy baseball players, because we all like different things...different formats, different styles, different cats, etc. 

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I agree flyman.  I noticed this mix up in pitching strategies last season when Tampa Bay started using a variety of pitchers for a few innings each game.  I think the Mariners are starting to do something similar now also.  Any new league I create in fantasy now includes a holds category (H2H leagues).  Since like you mentioned, a mid-game reliever has a descent chance at saves as well as holds these days.  Thanks for the input.

7 minutes ago, Flyman75 said:

 

And I don't see a skill in picking up some of the random relievers to get saves+holds. 

Why are you stuck on this "best reliever" thing? If you want a BR position, then figure out how to add one. But you're griping about the better relievers not necessarily getting all the saves and fussing about multiple relievers getting double-digit saves. I find that quite ironic from someone who is pushing for saves+holds. 

I fail to see how it's unfortunate if someone wins the saves cat because he's rostered a few guys along the way who got a few saves. It's part of the game, and many of us like playing that game. It would be no more unfortunate than someone who managed to win saves+holds because that takes no more skill or fantasy baseball ability than accumulating saves. 

Now...I've said my piece. I'm not going to debate with you any more about it because I know you have a propensity to argue in circles. I disagree with you and will agree to disagree if you refrain from assuming you know what's best for all fantasy baseball players, because we all like different things...different formats, different styles, different cats, etc. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I have played in the same head to head league for many years.  One of the issues I have is that anytime a top prospect gets called up he is not on waivers and whoever sees him first picks him up.  In my opinion this isn’t fair as we all work and have other stuff to do and cannot always monitor the latest news.  I was told by our commissioner that there is no way to regulate this.  Can you share your practices on how this is regulated in your leagues?

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