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Kyler Murray OF OAK


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13 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

 

Legal contracts?  Let me give you the short of it.  He signed a contract.  He broke it.  He lied.  He cost Oakland the 10th player in the whole freaking draft which is a huge loss for a small market team like the A's.  He makes off with nearly $200,000 of his bonus money in tow for doing nothing for the A's but shafting them.  He tweeted his decision and couldn't be bothered to tell the A's ahead of his tweet because he wasn't man enough to.  He is scum without a thimbleful of ethics to his name.

And you are assuming that Kyler Murray is the one doing that and not his circle? And you are sure that the Twitter stuff isn't a signal to the world? You have confirmation that he never speaks with the A's? And Kyler isn't allowed to pursue his personal best interests in life? And exactly what would you like him to say to the A's? Would you like him to give his 2 weeks notice? This happens all of the time in the real world. Some corporation makes you an offer that is your best option and less than a year later another corporation makes you a far better offer and you are supposed to turn it down for morals or ethics? Some industries actually have career arcs based on annual movement and zero loyalty. Baseball is a business where salary and player control trumps merit on when you get called up to the MLB level. Do the A's and every team that holds down prospects for an additional year of control catch your anger and fury as well?  It is a business and everyone acts in their best interests whenever possible. 

This whole crying for the A's thing is just overblown. Such a small percentage of first round draft picks actually pan out. This thought that Kyler screwed the A's is just a little much for me. The A's knew the risk and they wove it into his contract. They should have said no to any football and had the discipline to pass on Kyler if they weren't satisfied with the risk profile, but they didn't and it bit them. All players come with risk. This one just got the A's immediately. The A's calculated the risk and it didn't work out. Failed investment. Happens all the time in baseball and you just keep moving forward. The A's will get another lottery ticket in a few months. Also, the A's drafted the player and they didn't have to. The A's actions put this on their plate today. They could have passed like the other teams did on Murray.

Dudes check out all the time after they get paid. I had an old teammate sign for $500,000 and was out of baseball after 1 full year in the minors. Should we come after him or does he get a free pass because he showed up for roughly 140 innings to get his teeth kicked in even though he mentally checked out? Or what about every other failed first rounder that costs their team millions? Chill out with the attacks on a 21 year old kid that is hopefully trying to pursue his passion and figure out his path in life. This business is measured in the millions and billions and not the thousands.

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I mean, there's a court between basic federal and the Supreme Court, it's very hard to get to the Supreme Court, there's absolutely no guarantee it would be appealed twice let alone even taken to cour

God i hope he picks football so that i can watch this thread burn and see someone eat crow   

Brock you need to understand that these are opinions based on the past.  The MLB has already had a similar lawsuit against his father in a less liberal state.  California would love to hear a case suc

4 hours ago, brockpapersizer said:

None of this speaks to legality, just emotion 

I really wish I read your post and just said, THIS, before taking the time to write my way to long response.

There is so much emotion surrounding Kyler and I just do not understand it. Kyler seems to be moving forward in a very logical manner if you put yourself in his position. I don't see him doing anything irrational or anything that any confident 21 year old freak athlete that has options would do. It seems like very few people show empathy to Kyler and justify that by thinking he doesn't deserve it because of the money he is soon to make or turning down. 

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On 2/11/2019 at 12:55 PM, daynlokki said:

You think he'd go back to the A's with 0 for a signing bonus while making MiLB money after being in the NFL?

Absolutely. Why wouldn't he? If he was physically capable to start that path in baseball and had a team willing to invest a roster spot on him why would he turn that down? Tebow did it because he loves competing and playing sports and challenging himself. What makes you think it would be different for Murray if he flamed out in football? 

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11 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

I really wish I read your post and just said, THIS, before taking the time to write my way to long response.

There is so much emotion surrounding Kyler and I just do not understand it. Kyler seems to be moving forward in a very logical manner if you put yourself in his position. I don't see him doing anything irrational or anything that any confident 21 year old freak athlete that has options would do. It seems like very few people show empathy to Kyler and justify that by thinking he doesn't deserve it because of the money he is soon to make or turning down. 

2 things people are missing the most from this who react in an emotional way

 

1) The Athletics absolutely knew that even with signing the contract this could have happened.. Multiple people seem to not know how contracts work, how they operate, and the consequences of breaking one. They didn't think he would have been that good in college last year so they rolled the dice.  They also knew that despite signing a contract that said he would just play baseball, this could happen.  Anyone who doesn't think the A's knew all these risks when deciding to spend their 1st round pick on him is just wrong.  It was a risk, not even a bad one, it just didn't work out.

2) People keep pushing the "small market" card here. The owner of the A's is worth almost 3 billion and the A's make him a ton of money every year.  I just don't really care to remotely feel bad for them. I feel less bad for the A's on this than when they lost to the Yankees. Seriously, poop happens. It's a prospect. A's could have literally saved 5 million bucks on a guy who could have been a jabroni quite easily, not that I care about a baseball team making or losing 5 million bucks either.

Edited by brockpapersizer
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@brockpapersizer I think we are probably in alignment on the entire Kyler situation aside from how good of a baseball prospect he is. This situation is probably overblown because the talking heads need something to carry the air time for the days, weeks and months before baseball season starts and the NFL draft takes place. It really isn't that big of a deal, IMO.  

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12 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

Absolutely. Why wouldn't he? If he was physically capable to start that path in baseball and had a team willing to invest a roster spot on him why would he turn that down? Tebow did it because he loves competing and playing sports and challenging himself. What makes you think it would be different for Murray if he flamed out in football? 

The difference is Tebow not only made millions on the field, he also made many times more through endorsements as well as his commentary.  To sign with Atlanta they agreed to many things that there is no way the A's can match considering their market. Murray would have to ride on buses to every game after being pampered as a rookie NFL quarterback.  If he already doesn't have the heart to play baseball now, why would he all of a sudden have the heart to play it after he already lost his 'dream'?

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2 hours ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

 

Cardinals want to keep everyone thinking that anything is on the table.

 

 

 

There is literally 0 chance they draft Murray first.  Every team knows they don't want to trade Rosen after trading a 1, 3, and 5 for him.  He'd get less in trade than what the Ravens just got for Flacco, which was about a 4th.

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2 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

The difference is Tebow not only made millions on the field, he also made many times more through endorsements as well as his commentary.  To sign with Atlanta they agreed to many things that there is no way the A's can match considering their market. Murray would have to ride on buses to every game after being pampered as a rookie NFL quarterback.  If he already doesn't have the heart to play baseball now, why would he all of a sudden have the heart to play it after he already lost his 'dream'?

You make a lot of assumptions about a person's character with this post. To think or justify that there is a financial number a person must achieve in wealth before they are willing to start from square one to compete in another sport doesn't really deserve a response. Just try being empathetic and assuming you have the ability to play MLB and NFL and you really, really, really love playing football and you love playing baseball. And then go through the scenarios that way. 

 

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30 minutes ago, daynlokki said:

There is literally 0 chance they draft Murray first.  Every team knows they don't want to trade Rosen after trading a 1, 3, and 5 for him.  He'd get less in trade than what the Ravens just got for Flacco, which was about a 4th.

 

I understand. Did you hear the interview with Steve Keim this morning. Did you hear Kirk Herbstreit talking the other day?

 

Again, the Cards want everyone to think that anything is possible. Not saying everyone will believe it, but that is what they are doing. Draft time makes some folks do weird things.

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34 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

You make a lot of assumptions about a person's character with this post. To think or justify that there is a financial number a person must achieve in wealth before they are willing to start from square one to compete in another sport doesn't really deserve a response. Just try being empathetic and assuming you have the ability to play MLB and NFL and you really, really, really love playing football and you love playing baseball. And then go through the scenarios that way. 

 

I'm basing it on the character he has already shown.  He signed a contract and not only told the A's, but also the media point-blank he was playing baseball.  Then he tried to leverage football into more money with the A's.  When that really didn't work he decided that baseball wasn't right for him and that he wanted to play football.  Usually, that would show someone to be without at least a little morality.  Fact is, he's gone back on his word. 

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19 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Not emotion, ethics.  Two VERY different things.

100% agree.  I wouldn't let my kids go back on their word, why would I think it's ok for Kyler Murray to do it just because he's famous?

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26 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Not emotion, ethics.  Two VERY different things.

I respect your opinion a lot, and in no way am I claiming Kyler Murray is an ethical person.  I think many players and teams look out for themselves first and foremost.  I'm sure we could find tons of unethical things the A's have done over the years or even your Red Sox. I think calling Kyler Murray scum is going a little too far honestly. We really don't know the whole situation and the A's 100% knew this was a possibility when they signed him. 

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We are about 1 month away from the White Sox and Blue Jays telling the media that their star prospect isn't quite ready for baseball and needs more seasoning. The result of this lie is going to cost a person (not a billionaire team or franchise), a PERSON millions of dollars.  They won't be the first team to do this, they won't be the last (assuming the rules stay the same).

Ethics in baseball are subjective and overlooked. Do we think any franchise didn't know some of their players were doing steroids?  If you're going to ding Kyler Murray as an unethical POS, by all means that is anyone's right.  Please do the same for every franchise who has done something unethical. 

I feel like if we knew every team's dirty laundry and held them to the same moral standards as some individuals, there would be nobody to root for.

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Ethics and Sports just do not mix

 

All about money for Teams, Players, Agents, Fans, everyone

 

Nobody is ethical when your looking at millions, you look out for your best interests.........thats human nature, unless your causing physical harm, who cares, example this scenario, teams like the A's (small market) hold guys back to save money, Kyler used his leverage to get the most he could, how are the two any different? I guess both are a POS and unethical so nobody is really harmed here lol

 

Ethics are almost non existent in sports and that isnt really a new thing

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26 minutes ago, brockpapersizer said:

 

I respect your opinion a lot, and in no way am I claiming Kyler Murray is an ethical person.  I think many players and teams look out for themselves first and foremost.  I'm sure we could find tons of unethical things the A's have done over the years or even your Red Sox. I think calling Kyler Murray scum is going a little too far honestly. We really don't know the whole situation and the A's 100% knew this was a possibility when they signed him. 

Just because a bad person or organization doesn't stop doing bad things doesn't mean we should stop doing the right thing. 

And I'm an equal opportunity scum caller.  In this case Murray is the scum.  In another case it could well be Billy Beane.  So what?  Wrong is wrong and Murray is wrong in this case and to try and excuse it by saying others do bad things too doesn't make any sense to me.

And to the post just above.  Ethics is the backbone of life that keeps us from rationalizing away everything from the small action of shoplifting a cola to major actions like setting up concentration camps and killing people.  It exists at every single level of human activity including sports and isn't something trotted out in speeches or just for special occasions.  Without it a person has no honor.

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9 minutes ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Just because a bad person or organization doesn't stop doing bad things doesn't mean we should stop doing the right thing. 

And I'm an equal opportunity scum caller.  In this case Murray is the scum.  In another case it could well be Billy Beane.  So what?  Wrong is wrong and Murray is wrong in this case and to try and excuse it by saying others do bad things too doesn't make any sense to me.

And to the post just above.  Ethics is the backbone of life that keeps us from rationalizing away everything from the small action of shoplifting a cola to major actions like setting up concentration camps and killing people.  It exists at every single level of human activity including sports and isn't something trotted out in speeches or just for special occasions.  Without it a person has no honor.

 

Well yea if you want to get philosophical on being a good person hah

 

so i guess in sports everyone is unethical because they value money over doing whats right 

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3 minutes ago, kmoore1521 said:

Well yea if you want to get philosophical on being a good person hah

so i guess in sports everyone is unethical because they value money over doing whats right 

Not Nola.  We both agreed on him, hah.  And being a good person is the only type of person to be.

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2 hours ago, daynlokki said:

I'm basing it on the character he has already shown.  He signed a contract and not only told the A's, but also the media point-blank he was playing baseball.  Then he tried to leverage football into more money with the A's.  When that really didn't work he decided that baseball wasn't right for him and that he wanted to play football.  Usually, that would show someone to be without at least a little morality.  Fact is, he's gone back on his word. 

I can not continue a back and forth with you because I can not follow the leaps you make in your posts. We operate on two different wavelengths and that is perfectly fine. My response to this post would be to simply ask, what do you want a kid to say when they just got drafted by a a team? You can counter and have last word if you need it. I will not respond. 

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45 minutes ago, thezing1 said:

I can not continue a back and forth with you because I can not follow the leaps you make in your posts. We operate on two different wavelengths and that is perfectly fine. My response to this post would be to simply ask, what do you want a kid to say when they just got drafted by a a team? You can counter and have last word if you need it. I will not respond. 

I would want my kid to say whatever they ultimately wanted, and then stand by what they said.  I'm sure every parent would want the same thing because that's what the moral thing to do.  If he knew his heart was in football he could have just not signed after he was drafted.  Instead, he chose to sign and cost the Athletics a top 10 pick, which is HUGE for them.  And yes, I get that nobody saw his football rise happening.  The fact is, if he would have just declined to sign because he wasn't into baseball as much, he was eligible for this upcoming draft again.  Not like he wouldn't have been selected there if his football dreams never became realized.  All he did was screw a franchise out of a pick.

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7 hours ago, daynlokki said:

There is literally 0 chance they draft Murray first.  Every team knows they don't want to trade Rosen after trading a 1, 3, and 5 for him.  He'd get less in trade than what the Ravens just got for Flacco, which was about a 4th.

So bc they traded away all of that for Rosen they cant change how they want to go forward? If they learned over this past year Rosen sucks, or that he will not do well in Kingsburys system then they can go another route. If they have to take their losses on that trade for Rosen, so be it. But there is no reason to waste a few years on Rosen if you know he isn't the guy you thought. Not saying he isn't good though. But to say 0% chance is a bit over the top. 

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58 minutes ago, Bips_braves said:

So bc they traded away all of that for Rosen they cant change how they want to go forward? If they learned over this past year Rosen sucks, or that he will not do well in Kingsburys system then they can go another route. If they have to take their losses on that trade for Rosen, so be it. But there is no reason to waste a few years on Rosen if you know he isn't the guy you thought. Not saying he isn't good though. But to say 0% chance is a bit over the top. 

Name me one football team outside of the Browns who give up on top 10 picks after one year of starting at QB.  It just doesn't happen.  Especially when this QB draft is actually a BAD one overall.  That's with Murray as the 2nd or 3rd QB off most boards.  Rosen was actually the better prospect of the two of them as well.  This is a weak QB class and Murray isn't even the top signal caller on pretty much any decent mock draft.  There is a reason the committee told Murray he had a late 2nd or early 3rd round grade.

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9 hours ago, daynlokki said:

Name me one football team outside of the Browns who give up on top 10 picks after one year of starting at QB.  It just doesn't happen.  Especially when this QB draft is actually a BAD one overall.  That's with Murray as the 2nd or 3rd QB off most boards.  Rosen was actually the better prospect of the two of them as well.  This is a weak QB class and Murray isn't even the top signal caller on pretty much any decent mock draft.  There is a reason the committee told Murray he had a late 2nd or early 3rd round grade.

There is more to it than just finding a team that has done just that. Most coaches who draft a QB that high are given more than one year. Obviously Kingsbury is there now. We hear all the time with new offensive coaches "when will they get their guy who will run their offense?" Maybe Rosen will be that guy. But I don't have a hatred for Murray enough to say he won't be drafted at that pick. 

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31 minutes ago, Bips_braves said:

There is more to it than just finding a team that has done just that. Most coaches who draft a QB that high are given more than one year. Obviously Kingsbury is there now. We hear all the time with new offensive coaches "when will they get their guy who will run their offense?" Maybe Rosen will be that guy. But I don't have a hatred for Murray enough to say he won't be drafted at that pick. 

It's not hatred saying he won't be drafted 1st overall, it's the fact that he's not considered the top QB in the draft class... that would be Haskins.  They could easily trade down, which makes some sense, but even then, it wouldn't be for a team to take Murray.  Did you not even read the link I posted that had him not even in the first round in the mock?  NFL teams are considering his situation with the A's as off-field issues.  Causes many to automatically take him completely off their draft board.

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