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Eli Manning 2019 Outlook


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11 hours ago, cashvillesent said:

I view Warner as absolutely not HOF worthy. Eli is far above him. Warner getting in is a joke.


Warner is the opposite argument of Eli (no longevity, but clearly the best QB in the game for several years). Both deserve to get in. 

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2 hours ago, kdko said:

 

By comparison, Rivers (who started 2 years after Manning), has 31 more touchdowns and 46 less interceptions on 600 less attempts..  Also has 2,000+ more yards.  Rivers is what i'd call above average-very good.  Without rings (which we can attribute to good D and helmet catch), this wouldn't even be a conversation.  Eli was very average and his stats show that.

Right - PFF just wrote this up the other day.

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Not only did Eli have less to work with than Rivers did over the years, he also played in a significantly tougher division (notwithstanding the miserable 2019 that the NFC East just had). Here are the standings for Eli's division rivals since 2004 (when he began starting) and Rivers' division rivals since 2006 (when he began starting):

image.png.cef9518b5de856e1120d170719f2914d.png

And overall totals:
image.png.bc2a0cf80b5ad56beeb030d035282bf1.png

Considering that you play your division rivals in 6 of 16 games (37.5%) every season, that's a significant difference in the quality of competition Eli and Rivers faced in their divisions.

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1 hour ago, cashvillesent said:

Come on man. Get boldier than that! An avatar bet? Nah, son... lets get the bread! $100 via paypal Eli isn't a first ballot HoF?

 

You'd lose that bet.  Even if Eli didn't deserve to be a 1st ballot HOF (which he clearly does), he'll get in on the Manning NFL political dynasty alone.  Peyton has in the past threatened and carried through on vendettas against media who disparage Eli...that would be about 10-fold for any who oppose Eli getting in the HOF.

 

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8 hours ago, joshua18 said:


Rivers was handed the keys to prime Antonio Gates (top-5 TE of all time), prime Tomlinson (top-10 RB of all time) — two more studs than Eli ever had — plus the league’s #1 defense, yet never won anything. 
 

The dumbest decision the Chargers ever made was trading for Rivers instead of drafting Larry Fitzgerald to play with Drew Brees. Rivers is not, never has been and never will be better than Brees (who they left for dead to allow Rivers to start in the first place).  
 

Eli did far more with far less than Rivers.  People who actually know football — like the HOF voters — can appreciate that. 

 

General consensus,  Rivers > Manning

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23 minutes ago, kdko said:

 

General consensus,  Rivers > Manning

 

Not among those who really know football.  Rivers was handed a team in 2006 better than any Eli has ever had, and couldn't even win a home playoff game.

Wearing bolo ties and hamming it up for the camera may be cool for the media, but aren't indicative of being a better player.  As a Giants fan I'm glad we traded him away for Eli.  Rivers is not and never has been a winner when it matters most...the biggest playoff win in the past 30 years by the Chargers was led by Billy Volek, not Rivers. 

 

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52 minutes ago, joshua18 said:

 

Not among those who really know football.  Rivers was handed a team in 2006 better than any Eli has ever had, and couldn't even win a home playoff game.

Wearing bolo ties and hamming it up for the camera may be cool for the media, but aren't indicative of being a better player.  As a Giants fan I'm glad we traded him away for Eli.  Rivers is not and never has been a winner when it matters most...the biggest playoff win in the past 30 years by the Chargers was led by Billy Volek, not Rivers. 

 

 

I could say the same thing.  Anyone who knows football and has a pair of working eyes can see Rivers is a better QB.  You can have all the talent in the world and not win the chip.  During those star studded years, they got unlucky with the McCrees fumble and later with Rivers playing with a torn ACL and LT sitting with an MCL injury.  Just like Eli got lucky with the helmet catch and his defense catching fire and holding the Patriots to under 20.  Any given Sunday as they say.  Eli's stats reflect how flukey his wins were 🤷‍♂️

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17 minutes ago, Corleone said:

 

 

 

Well, Rivers will be the first to do it 🤷‍♂️  Rivers has actually lead the league in nearly ever single positive QB category at some point (TD, Yards, Completion, Passer Rating).  Only category Manning has ever led in?  Interceptions.  3 times.

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3 hours ago, kdko said:

 

Well, Rivers will be the first to do it 🤷‍♂️  Rivers has actually lead the league in nearly ever single positive QB category at some point (TD, Yards, Completion, Passer Rating).  Only category Manning has ever led in?  Interceptions.  3 times.

Rivers led in those four categories you mention...a grand total of once each (and the lead in TD's was a tie for first, with Brees in 2008).

Rivers led in passer rating in 2008, TD passes in 2008 (the aforementioned tie with Brees), yards in 2010, and completion % in 2013. In none of those seasons was Rivers close to being considered the best QB in the league.

In fact, here are the ranks for Rivers amongst all QB's, in the four categories that you brought up:

image.png.e2249d38b27415097ee884a212f3f6fe.png

Is that really a Hall of Fame QB? Where is the evidence of Rivers being an elite QB? It's not here, because the evidence doesn't exist. 

So neither Rivers or Eli was elite compared to fellow QB's across individual seasons...but Eli was the MVP in two Super Bowl wins. If Eli had the same stats he has and wasn't a two-time Super Bowl winner, then he wouldn't be an eventual Hall of Famer. But he did win...and so he will be a HOF'er.
 

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18 hours ago, sSektor said:

Any random QB can catch fire in the playoffs and play well enough to win one Superbowl. Eli did it twice against the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That alone is worthy of being in the HOF without even considering the regular season.

 

 

 

This x1,000,000.    His regular season stats don't add anything to it.  He is the archetype for average QB's who can catch fire in the playoffs.

 

 "according to Pro-Football-Reference.com’s advanced passing index, he is one of the most average QBs ever, checking in with a lifetime adjusted net yards per attempt(ANY/A) index of 101 (where 100 is dead-average for the era)."   

 

^ Rivers is 19th on this list, while having the 7th most passing attempts.

 

 

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:59 PM, sSektor said:

Any random QB can catch fire in the playoffs and play well enough to win one Superbowl. Eli did it twice against the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That alone is worthy of being in the HOF without even considering the regular season.


but if you add being 7th all time in yards and TDs its a no-brainer. 

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:59 PM, sSektor said:

Any random QB can catch fire in the playoffs and play well enough to win one Superbowl. Eli did it twice against the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That alone is worthy of being in the HOF without even considering the regular season.

Nick Foles would almost qualify being in the HOF with that thinking.

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5 hours ago, devaster said:

This is how I feel. But it could also depend on who else will be up for the HoF or has been waiting when it is time for Eli to have a chance.

 

This illustrates one of the problems with the HoF. Why is he worthy of being in HoF, but not on the first ballot? FWIW, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Eli being in the Hall. Just that I think the whole process is stupid.

"Today, Eli isn't good enough to be in the Hall but next year he will be even though he won't have added to his resume at all in that time frame."

 

Just stupid how HoF processes work for all the major sports.

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