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parrothead
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just popped in here to say the idea of Garrett calling plays and Moore being promoted as some sort of right hip attachment to JG as an OC is absolutely embarrassing.  How on earth Moore didn't get fired along with Linehan i will never understand.   The idea that he's actually being promoted potentially is baffling.  Turn out the lights Jerry, the party is over.  Hell it probably never even began.  I'd rather see Linehan back in 19' calling plays then JG.   My only saving grace thought here would be, MAYBE the Garrett extension is on hold through 2019. Let him coach out his contract as HC, play caller, you name it.  That way, no matter which direction the season goes for the Cowboys in 19', its all on him to earn that extension or clean house completely going into 2020.

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I'm glad as an Eagles fan, but it is certainly sad to see this all unfold. Cowboys should really look outside the organization. You don't fix an internal issue by blaming and firing one guy and promoting within. Garrett has been a failure before calling plays. Moore has no experience and may have been part of the issue (Charles Woodson spoke to this).

 

Cowboys may have missed their opportunity though waiting so long to fire their OC.

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:24 AM, BlakeP42 said:

just popped in here to say the idea of Garrett calling plays and Moore being promoted as some sort of right hip attachment to JG as an OC is absolutely embarrassing.  How on earth Moore didn't get fired along with Linehan i will never understand.   The idea that he's actually being promoted potentially is baffling.  Turn out the lights Jerry, the party is over.  Hell it probably never even began.  I'd rather see Linehan back in 19' calling plays then JG.   My only saving grace thought here would be, MAYBE the Garrett extension is on hold through 2019. Let him coach out his contract as HC, play caller, you name it.  That way, no matter which direction the season goes for the Cowboys in 19', its all on him to earn that extension or clean house completely going into 2020.

I think youre saving grace thought is the one to focus on.  Garrett has one year left if Jerry doesnt extend him, what OC is going to leave a situation or come in here on a one-year deal or how can you give a new OC like a 3- year deal when your HC has one year left, that wouldnt work much either I would guess.  Jerry really needs to cut ties period.  Its not like next year is some wasted season with a terrible aging roster and no cap room, this team has a lot of talent, is gonna have a lot of cap room and if he hired a legitimate coach could serioiusly be in the conversation as a Super Bowl contender.  But alas, its Jerry and his stubborn flawed logic that this is the 90's and X's and O's dont matter that much.  

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17 minutes ago, parrothead said:

I think youre saving grace thought is the one to focus on.  Garrett has one year left if Jerry doesnt extend him, what OC is going to leave a situation or come in here on a one-year deal or how can you give a new OC like a 3- year deal when your HC has one year left, that wouldnt work much either I would guess.  Jerry really needs to cut ties period.  Its not like next year is some wasted season with a terrible aging roster and no cap room, this team has a lot of talent, is gonna have a lot of cap room and if he hired a legitimate coach could serioiusly be in the conversation as a Super Bowl contender.  But alas, its Jerry and his stubborn flawed logic that this is the 90's and X's and O's dont matter that much.  

agree 100% PH.  Why Jerry continues to pick apart this coaching tree, starting at the end of 17', yet good Ol' JG gets to hang around is baffling overall.  I did figure if JG had to coach out his contract through 2019', then that would def scare off any potential OC's to come in.  But i sure didn't think they would just hand over the play calling back to Garrett.  Esp since he was terrible at it before and they literally said (as an excuse of course) that JG needed to focus on being a full HC, so its was best to have an OC on board to relieve JG of too much being on his plate lol.  Now reverting back to JG just makes me scratch my head. BUT, i guess if this all plays into the idea Garretts extension is on hold, I'm all for it.  Like i said earlier, put it all on JG for 2019.  Let him put up or shut up and either show us he can HC/OC and lead this team to the next level in the playoffs, or go home and start over in 2020. If this team can't progress under JG in 19', you fire his butt and then 2020, at that time the line for the Dallas HC job would be a long one.    OR, all this talk I'm doing is for absolutely nothing and they extend JG and then kiss it all goodnight.  Opportunity Window slammed shut if that happens.

 

My last thought too if or when JG craps the bed in 19':     Kris Richard HC in 2020.  I wonder in the back of Jerry/Stephen J's mind Richard is a guy they would think about promoting.  Esp if this Defense for Dallas returns and plays strong in 19', yet the offense continues to sputter at a bottom league level rate.   

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1 hour ago, BlakeP42 said:

agree 100% PH.  Why Jerry continues to pick apart this coaching tree, starting at the end of 17', yet good Ol' JG gets to hang around is baffling overall.  I did figure if JG had to coach out his contract through 2019', then that would def scare off any potential OC's to come in.  But i sure didn't think they would just hand over the play calling back to Garrett.  Esp since he was terrible at it before and they literally said (as an excuse of course) that JG needed to focus on being a full HC, so its was best to have an OC on board to relieve JG of too much being on his plate lol.  Now reverting back to JG just makes me scratch my head. BUT, i guess if this all plays into the idea Garretts extension is on hold, I'm all for it.  Like i said earlier, put it all on JG for 2019.  Let him put up or shut up and either show us he can HC/OC and lead this team to the next level in the playoffs, or go home and start over in 2020. If this team can't progress under JG in 19', you fire his butt and then 2020, at that time the line for the Dallas HC job would be a long one.    OR, all this talk I'm doing is for absolutely nothing and they extend JG and then kiss it all goodnight.  Opportunity Window slammed shut if that happens.

 

My last thought too if or when JG craps the bed in 19':     Kris Richard HC in 2020.  I wonder in the back of Jerry/Stephen J's mind Richard is a guy they would think about promoting.  Esp if this Defense for Dallas returns and plays strong in 19', yet the offense continues to sputter at a bottom league level rate.   

And honestly that might be part of why they didnt completely scrap Garrett, because honestly I think they (like most of the league) probably would of been inclined to bring in someone for Dak as the next head coach, which would mean passing over Richard which would mean you would likely lose him too.   The stuff coming out about the Rams and knowing what plays were coming probably were not helping Richards case.   As much as I love Richard on the defensive side of the ball, I would have to be pretty convinced in an interview that he has a plan on offense, who he sees bringing in as OC and how that style would fit with what is here.  Thought for a while there if there was a move to Richard, maybe bringing in Bevil (former SEA OC who worked with Russell Wilson and has good RPO skills) 

 

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1 hour ago, parrothead said:

And honestly that might be part of why they didnt completely scrap Garrett, because honestly I think they (like most of the league) probably would of been inclined to bring in someone for Dak as the next head coach, which would mean passing over Richard which would mean you would likely lose him too.   The stuff coming out about the Rams and knowing what plays were coming probably were not helping Richards case.   As much as I love Richard on the defensive side of the ball, I would have to be pretty convinced in an interview that he has a plan on offense, who he sees bringing in as OC and how that style would fit with what is here.  Thought for a while there if there was a move to Richard, maybe bringing in Bevil (former SEA OC who worked with Russell Wilson and has good RPO skills) 

 

Agree, during Richards recent interview across teams in the NFL one thing i kept bringing up was, i bet he's having a tough time convincing GM's that he can bring the right OC/ offensive mind with him. Which as we see is critical in today's game.  It would def be my concern even if he took over in Dallas.  

 

  

 

Interesting thought on Bevil as well.  Never thought of that.  I think that could be a decent hire for the Lions and esp Kerryon 

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Interesting note from Beasley saying the front office pushes who they want to get the ball.

 

Of course, Cowboys fans might deny this, but with Jerry Jones, I believe it.

 

Serious question for Dallas fans. Do you think he ever goes away so that his coaches can do their job more effectively?

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15 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

Interesting note from Beasley saying the front office pushes who they want to get the ball.

 

Of course, Cowboys fans might deny this, but with Jerry Jones, I believe it.

 

Serious question for Dallas fans. Do you think he ever goes away so that his coaches can do their job more effectively?

 

Once Jerry dies, yes.  Until then, no chance.  

 

As for Cole, you can see my full response to his comments yesterday in his thread.  Laughable and puzzling is what i think.  Even if his comments regarding the front office are true, Cole's stats across the board even going back to the Romo era are simply average slot WR numbers, and thats probably putting it nicely.  The only time Cole has really been able to get open or impact games is when a better more talented WR is on the field with him. Be it Dez  or now Cooper.  So overall Cole sounds  a bit bitter, which to me is too little too late, sorry to say.   I honestly hope he moves on and test the FA market to find another team in 19'.  He's correct, he's not in the right system to be a target hog nor is he talented enough to warrant that sort of attention, so Dallas may not be for him as we move forward.   

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20 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

 

Once Jerry dies, yes.  Until then, no chance.  

 

As for Cole, you can see my full response to his comments yesterday in his thread.  Laughable and puzzling is what i think.  Even if his comments regarding the front office are true, Cole's stats across the board even going back to the Romo era are simply average slot WR numbers, and thats probably putting it nicely.  The only time Cole has really been able to get open or impact games is when a better more talented WR is on the field with him. Be it Dez  or now Cooper.  So overall Cole sounds  a bit bitter, which to me is too little too late, sorry to say.   I honestly hope he moves on and test the FA market to find another team in 19'.  He's correct, he's not in the right system to be a target hog nor is he talented enough to warrant that sort of attention, so Dallas may not be for him as we move forward.   

 

How does that disprove that the FO dictates who gets the ball though?

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1 hour ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

How does that disprove that the FO dictates who gets the ball though?

 

Doesn't disprove that idea, but the fact is Jerry/Stephen been sitting in team meetings for many years, well before Dak, Romo, Cole, etc..   So the timing of this all seems odd from Cole given he's pretty much hovered around the same sort of average numbers his entire career.  Actually his best numbers have come with Dak under center and Linehan calling plays. So overall i just think, Why Now, Cole? That the part that puzzles me.    Even as odd and possibly flawed as the idea that the FO sits in meetings may be, my thought is if anyone is suggesting getting the ball in your best play makers hands, then I'm not sure i'd argue that notion.  The Cowboys trading for, then targeting Cooper paid off in many ways this season.  It also paid off when Dez was in his prime.  So overall this just feels like a bitter WR thats not happy about his situation.  Oddly enough, its the exact situation he's been in his entire career.  

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3 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

 

Doesn't disprove that idea, but the fact is Jerry/Stephen been sitting in team meetings for many years, well before Dak, Romo, Cole, etc..   So the timing of this all seems odd from Cole given he's pretty much hovered around the same sort of average numbers his entire career.  Actually his best numbers have come with Dak under center and Linehan calling plays. So overall i just think, Why Now, Cole? That the part that puzzles me.    Even as odd and possibly flawed as the idea may be, my thought is if anyone is suggesting getting the ball in your best play makers hands, then I'm not sure i'd argue that notion.  The Cowboys trading for, then targeting Cooper paid off in many ways this season.  It also paid off when Dez was in his prime.  So overall this just feels like a bitter WR thats not happy about his situation.  Oddly enough, its the exact situation he's been in his entire career.  

 

 

You're missing my point though. The point is that if there is direction AT ALL from the front office dictating what should be the coach's decision, is a problem.

 

I don't think it's debatable that Jerry Jones includes himself more than he probably should. I don't think it's that far fetched that he does step in and say we want you to force the ball to so and so. Maybe not in those words, but that's the bottom line. And if you don't, we will find a coaching staff who does. It fits the narrative that Garrett has basically been a puppet.

 

And what's your point saying Cole hasn't had great numbers? How does that disprove that the Cowboys FO says who to throw to? If they are doing what he says and forcing to other players, than wouldn't he naturally have the lesser numbers that he has?

 

TBH, he is open a lot but doesn't get the ball much outside of hurry up and when gameplan is less scripted.

 

I wouldn't completely dismiss what he is saying...

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10 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

 

You're missing my point though. The point is that if there is direction AT ALL from the front office dictating what should be the coach's decision, is a problem.

 

I don't think it's debatable that Jerry Jones includes himself more than he probably should. I don't think it's that far fetched that he does step in and say we want you to force the ball to so and so. Maybe not in those words, but that's the bottom line. And if you don't, we will find a coaching staff who does. It fits the narrative that Garrett has basically been a puppet.

 

And what's your point saying Cole hasn't had great numbers? How does that disprove that the Cowboys FO says who to throw to? If they are doing what he says and forcing to other players, than wouldn't he naturally have the lesser numbers that he has?

 

TBH, he is open a lot but doesn't get the ball much outside of hurry up and when gameplan is less scripted.

 

I wouldn't completely dismiss what he is saying...

 

im not dismissing whats he's saying at all.  I admitted there is prob truth to it, bc i know for a fact that Jerry has been sitting in on game plan meetings for many years.  Im also not debating its a problem and odd.  My point is,  why Cole all the sudden wants to say this out loud like its some sort of crippling reason as to why he's not being targeted more , or more productive is flawed in itself.  Go look at his career numbers.   Cole is wrong in that regard.  I didn't hear a whiff of this from Cole during the Romo era and i can promise you, Jerry been sitting in meetings during that time and making his suggestions all along the way.  So again, why now Cole?  

  I admit, None of it changes the fact that its terrible that Jerry does business this way, but why Cole wants to wine about it now like he's all the sudden had some drastic drop off in his production is laughable.  He hasn't.   His numbers have actually improved for the most part.  I think Cole's numbers and his skill set have maxed out in the Dallas offense, probably for the rest of his career.  We all know the Dallas system and QB is not a WR friendly one to begin with.  Overall, this comes off as a player a bit bitter on his way out.  Im not saying he's wrong for voicing his opinion, but he's not fooling me into thinking its been this way for the entire duration of his career in Dallas.   

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2 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

 

im not dismissing whats he's saying at all.  I admitted there is prob truth to it, bc i know for a fact that Jerry has been sitting in on game plan meetings for many years.  Im also not debating its a problem and odd.  My point is,  why Cole all the sudden wants to say this out loud like its some sort of crippling reason as to why he's not being targeted more , or more productive is flawed in itself.  Go look at his career numbers.   Cole is wrong in that regard.  I didn't hear a whiff of this from Cole during the Romo era and i can promise you, Jerry been sitting in meetings during that time and making his suggestions all along the way.  So again, why now Cole?  

  I admit, None of it changes the fact that its terrible that Jerry does business this way, but why Cole wants to wine about it now like he's all the sudden had some drastic drop off in his production is laughable.  He hasn't.    I think Cole's numbers and his skill set have maxed out in the Dallas offense, probably for the rest of his career.  We all know the Dallas system and QB is not a WR friendly one to begin with.  Overall, this comes off as a player a bit bitter on his way out.  Im not saying he's wrong for voicing his opinion, but he's not fooling me into thinking its been this way for the entire duration of his career in Dallas.   

 

I wonder if it's because he's on his way out the door so finally he's making it known? Who knows.

 

I don't think he mentioned it as a reason he had a huge drop off in production. I took it as him mentioning why he has never been more involved than he has been. And that to me is a very fair question. It's either terrible game planning (coaching) or because direction comes from the FO.

 

For Dallas to get to where they need to be, Jerry Jones has to go away.

 

I don't think those who believe him are being fooled. I think they are believing him because it fits that long narrative that direction has always come from the FO and their head coach is a puppet or "yes man".

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2 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

I wonder if it's because he's on his way out the door so finally he's making it known? Who knows.

 

I don't think he mentioned it as a reason he had a huge drop off in production. I took it as him mentioning why he has never been more involved than he has been. And that to me is a very fair question. It's either terrible game planning (coaching) or because direction comes from the FO.

 

For Dallas to get to where they need to be, Jerry Jones has to go away.

 

I don't think those who believe him are being fooled. I think they are believing him because it fits that long narrative that direction has always come from the FO and their head coach is a puppet or "yes man".

I will never disagree with the idea that the sooner Jerry hands this franchise down to Stephen or whoever, the better.  He has to go.  And while its fair in many ways that Cole is driving home the narrative that Jerry and the FO have meddled too much over the years.  This still comes off as  WR who simply thinks he's more talented or important then he truly is to any teams weekly game plan.  Every single franchise funnels targets to their best players.  Truly talented NFL players get the ball, and are featured weekly if they are good enough.  I don't care what franchise we are talking about.    Cole stated he wants more then 3-4 targets a game.  Well, A.) he's def not on the right team with the right QB or system in place for that. and B.) across his career he's had plenty of games with targets shares beyond that number. It hasn't amounted to much. This includes his time with ROMO in case anyone is curious.  Maybe if he ever showed at any point in his career to have any sort of game breaking ability with the ball in his hands he would be featured more. He's a small slot WR that runs underneath routes hoping to pick up short yards and third downs.  He's not more then that, TBH.  He has 2-100 yard games to his career so far i believe. So while i won't argue I'm sure Cole's comments yesterday have plenty of truth to them and its always been a bad look for the Cowboys.  Its a bad look also coming from a average slot WR that comes off crying as if thats the reason he's not getting more game plan love on Sundays.  He's simply not good enough to warrant that opinion or to be featured on Sundays as it sounds like he wants or hopes to be, IMO :)  

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BlakeP42 said:

I will never disagree with the idea that the sooner Jerry hands this franchise down to Stephen or whoever, the better.  He has to go.  And while its fair in many ways that Cole is driving home the narrative that Jerry and the FO have meddled too much over the years.  This still comes off as  WR who simply thinks he's more talented or important then he truly is to any teams weekly game plan.  Every single franchise funnels targets to their best players.  Truly talented NFL players get the ball, and are featured weekly if they are good enough.  I don't care what franchise we are talking about.    Cole stated he wants more then 3-4 targets a game.  Well, A.) he's def not on the right team with the right QB or system in place for that. and B.) across his career he's had plenty of games with targets shares beyond that number. It hasn't amounted to much. This includes his time with ROMO in case anyone is curious.  Maybe if he ever showed at any point in his career to have any sort of game breaking ability with the ball in his hands he would be featured more. He's a small slot WR that runs underneath routes hoping to pick up short yards and third downs.  He's not more then that, TBH.  He has 2-100 yard games to his career so far i believe. So while i won't argue I'm sure Cole's comments yesterday have plenty of truth to them and its always been a bad look for the Cowboys.  Its a bad look also coming from a average slot WR that comes off crying as if thats the reason he's not getting more game plan love on Sundays.  He's simply not good enough to warrant that opinion or to be featured on Sundays as it sounds like he wants or hopes to be, IMO :)  

 

 

 

Fair enough.

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Beasley was definitely better with Romo. A lot more consistent. He was a viable WR3/flex in PPR leagues because of the amount of receptions he was getting. More of an indictment of Dak than the front office imo. Of course a team is going to involve their best players more heavily. Especially one they just traded for.

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The idea of Moore is actually kind of growing on me on a couple of fronts.  One is the obvious that you can do Moore without having to extend Garrett, where bringing someone from outside wouldnt work.  Second, one of the "trendy" replace Garrett names is Chris Petersen, his offensive mind and creativity would have been a welcomed addition, well...who knows that offense better than his former QB.  Perhaps Linehan wanted to do things his way, his style and Moore was just the QB coach in that framework, but in actuality there is a lot of new offensive concepts he would bring to the table.  We will see, but could be better than originally imagined. 

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1 hour ago, devaster said:

Beasley was definitely better with Romo. A lot more consistent. He was a viable WR3/flex in PPR leagues because of the amount of receptions he was getting. More of an indictment of Dak than the front office imo. Of course a team is going to involve their best players more heavily. Especially one they just traded for.

i think i can agree that the quality of the targets from Romo were better/more consistent, but TBH Romo to Beasley didn't do much in their time together.  Beasley's best numbers started in 2016 when Dak took over.  Didn't see much of Romo in 2015 due to injury, but that was Cole's first big bump in targets which was 75 targets.  He had never seen more then 54 targets with Romo under center.   Under Dak, Cole has had 98, 63, and 87 targets the last three seasons.  Seems like if the front office has been pushing Dak a certain direction for targets, Beasley has had his fair share of love based off the recent numbers.  IMO, a target range of 70-90 targets a season is plenty fair for a guy with his overall limited ability.  Cole may be right about Jerry and the FO office here, but it still doesn't add up to me to the point that its effected targets to Beasley to a major degree.  Or at least to me it sure doesn't seem that way.  Im also keeping in mind the fact that he's been playing in a designed offense that was literally drafted to be run heavy. From the OL to Zeke and so on.  Seems like Beasely has forgotten that aspect of all this along the way i guess.   This isn't an offense designed to throw 35-40 times again.  If Dak is, they are losing lol.  I def think its time for Cole to move on and go find out for himself. See if the grass can get any greener on the other side

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57 minutes ago, parrothead said:

The idea of Moore is actually kind of growing on me on a couple of fronts.  One is the obvious that you can do Moore without having to extend Garrett, where bringing someone from outside wouldnt work.  Second, one of the "trendy" replace Garrett names is Chris Petersen, his offensive mind and creativity would have been a welcomed addition, well...who knows that offense better than his former QB.  Perhaps Linehan wanted to do things his way, his style and Moore was just the QB coach in that framework, but in actuality there is a lot of new offensive concepts he would bring to the table.  We will see, but could be better than originally imagined. 

Of course I'm skeptical, but i agree off the top that this is probably the easiest route to go IF they simply don't extend Garrett this year.  Go ahead and see what JG/Moore can do together and the rest will work itself out by the close for the 2019 season for Dallas.   What i don't like, we all know Garrett won't be changing the overall offensive philosophy. I heard JG say the Linehan firing was more about having a different voice in the film room and weekly game plan.  I understand that logic, but i just know deep down JG's system isn't changing much.  Hopefully Moore can add a few wrinkles and pre snap looks to give JG's system a different look. Maybe, just maybe by some miracle even design more plays to get Dak mobile and operating in space, IDK.  But i doubt it will change much. JG is an old dog stuck in his old ways.  He still thinks playing Dallas Cowboys 1990's football wins titles in this era of football.  It doesn't. 

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13 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

 

You're missing my point though. The point is that if there is direction AT ALL from the front office dictating what should be the coach's decision, is a problem.

 

I don't think it's debatable that Jerry Jones includes himself more than he probably should. I don't think it's that far fetched that he does step in and say we want you to force the ball to so and so. Maybe not in those words, but that's the bottom line. And if you don't, we will find a coaching staff who does. It fits the narrative that Garrett has basically been a puppet.

 

And what's your point saying Cole hasn't had great numbers? How does that disprove that the Cowboys FO says who to throw to? If they are doing what he says and forcing to other players, than wouldn't he naturally have the lesser numbers that he has?

 

TBH, he is open a lot but doesn't get the ball much outside of hurry up and when gameplan is less scripted.

 

I wouldn't completely dismiss what he is saying...

 

Actually, you both missed the point.  Let Cole clarify and walk it back for you.... He's not saying it's different anywhere else. 

 

 

________

 

12 hours ago, devaster said:

Beasley was definitely better with Romo. A lot more consistent. He was a viable WR3/flex in PPR leagues because of the amount of receptions he was getting. More of an indictment of Dak than the front office imo. Of course a team is going to involve their best players more heavily. Especially one they just traded for.

 

source.gif

 

Cole's career year was 2016..... with Dak.  It's not really close.  His 2nd best year?  2018.  

 

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