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6 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

Um no, at no point during the game were Brady's throws averaging .5 yd air travel distance. That's basically a handoff...A throw to the flats might gain half a yd vertically, but it doesn't mean it traveled less than a yard in the air lol. Come on now.

 

My bad - it was .6:
 
 
ESPN Stats & Info
 
 
 
 
Tom Brady averaged 0.6 air yards on his 8 passes on the opening drive. His deepest throw was 6 air yards.
Edited by BMcP
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Vertically, sure. Do you understand how little space half a yard is? When you throw to flats, vertically it might be equal to half a yard, but it doesn't mean it traveled in the air for less than a yard. I'm not sure how else to illustrate this point besides an actual demonstration? Lol.

 

I pointed it out because you mentioned his average yardage in air during the season prior to mentioning this. As if it's the same.

 

Brady's passes to White traveled more than HALF A YARD lol.

 

If I throw from one sideline to the other at a bit of a slant, vertically it might only go "half a yard" on the field of play. But does that mean the ball I threw only traveled half a yard?

 

EDIT: Also, Brady is tied for 15th in average completed air yards. He's not 23rd as you so claim. That would be like having 5 guys tied for first but you mention the last one as being in 5th place rather than tied for 1st...Come on now.

 

Also, awesome, you shared a link to a Twitter feed as your source. I get it if you read it somewhere, but at least think about it for a second.

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5 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

Vertically, sure. Do you understand how little space half a yard is? When you throw to flats the ball vertically might be equal to half a yard, but it doesn't mean it TRAVELED less than a yard.

 

I pointed it out because you mentioned his average yardage in air during the season prior to mentioning this. As if it's the same.

 

Brady's passes to White traveled more than HALF A YARD lol.

 

If I throw from one sideline to the other at a bit of a slant, vertically it might only go "half a yard" on the field of play. But does that mean the ball I threw only traveled half a yard?

 

EDIT: Also, Brady is tied for 15th in average completed air yards. He's not 23rd as you so claim. That would be like having 5 guys tied for first but you mention the last one as being in 5th place rather than tied for 1st...Come on now.

 

Yeah - I think most other people understood the fact that I was referring to what are known as “air yards.”  What you are referring to, as far as I know, is not charted and of no particular interest to anyone in the fantasy or statistical community.

 

The point, essentially, is Brady can’t go deep anymore.  He’s a more celebrated Alex Smith at this point.

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1 minute ago, devaster said:

It is typically measured down the field and not sideline-to-sideline. Still not even sure why you are attempting to argue this.

 

Wasn't arguing. Was just pointing out that claiming Brady's passes traveled .6 yds in the air is nearly impossible unless they are handoffs. Hell pitches to the HB travel more than .6 yds.

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3 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Yeah - I think most other people understood the fact that I was referring to what are known as “air yards.”  What you are referring to, as far as I know, is not charted and of no particular interest to anyone in the fantasy or statistical community.

 

The point, essentially, is Brady can’t go deep anymore.  He’s a more celebrated Alex Smith at this point.

 

Brady hasn't been a deep passer for a long time now. What's your point?

 

I am very much interested in knowing how many yards a pass actually travels rather than only vertically beyond the LOS. Interesting to have someone imply it's a useless bit of knowledge. It's very much not and actually quite useful. Hearing that take tells me all I need to know about furthering this conversation though.

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Brady will happily dink and dunk his way down the field on long methodical drives if the defense is going to play zone and give him the underneath gaps to work with. He picked apart the Chargers with that game-plan. He will be facing man coverage against the Chiefs. Regardless of how bad they were for the season, they have been very good the last month or so.

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4 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Wasn't arguing. Was just pointing out that claiming Brady's passes traveled .6 yds in the air is nearly impossible unless they are handoffs. Hell pitches to the HB travel more than .6 yds.

 

As I pointed out, the phrase “in the air” is not meant to be interpreted literally, as you seem to be doing.  It is a common phrase for expressing how far the ball traveled vertically downfield.

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Just now, devaster said:

Brady will happily dink and dunk his way down the field on long methodical drives if the defense is going to play zone and give him the underneath gaps to work with. He picked apart the Chargers with that game-plan. He will be facing man coverage against the Chiefs. Regardless of how bad they were for the season, they have been very good the last month or so.

 

This.

 

It's an efficient way to run an offense. Take what they give you and chew up clock. When you can go up and down the field and score while chewing up 7 minutes of clock...Devastating. It's how he, Brees, Manning even were so successful. I find it humorous when people criticize it so much tbh. 

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5 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Brady hasn't been a deep passer for a long time now. What's your point?

 

I am very much interested in knowing how many yards a pass actually travels rather than only vertically beyond the LOS. Interesting to have someone imply it's a useless bit of knowledge. It's very much not and actually quite useful. Hearing that take tells me all I need to know about furthering this conversation though.

 

Perhaps someone at NextGen Stats will accommodate your request.

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Just now, BMcP said:

 

As I pointed out, the phrase “in the air” is not meant to be interpreted literally, as you seem to be doing.  It is a common phrase for expressing how far the ball traveled vertically downfield.

 

Average Completed Air Yards is the statistic you are trying to refer to. I read "in the air" as just that: "In the air". Different verbiage. If I was going to mention a stat measuring how far the ball actually travels, I would refer to it as you did "in the air".

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7 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Brady hasn't been a deep passer for a long time now. What's your point?

 

I suppose part of my point is your contention isn’t true: 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/sports/wp/2017/10/25/patriots-tom-brady-still-evolving-at-40-is-going-deep-like-never-before/

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5 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Dude, why are you so argumentative? I never said he didn't attempt downfield throws.

 

I've watched every Patriots game in the past 20 years. You googled "Tom Brady deep throws" to try to argue a point. #12 did throw more deep passes last year and had some success. This was by design due to loss of Edelman and having Cooks. That said, deep passing hasn't been a huge part of the offense for a while now, part of 2017 doesn't change that.

 

Anything else?

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1 minute ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Dude, why are you so argumentative? I never said he didn't attempt downfield throws.

 

Is that a joke?  You explicitly claimed he “hasn’t been a deep passer for a long time now” and asked me to restate my point.  I simply replied by informing you that you were mistaken, and provided you with proof of that fact.

 

Look, I know you’re new to the forums and welcome - but please try to engage in ways that actually promote meaningful discussion.

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7 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

Is that a joke?  You explicitly claimed he “hasn’t been a deep passer for a long time now” and asked me to restate my point.  I simply replied by informing you that you were mistaken, and provided you with proof of that fact.

 

Look, I know you’re new to the forums and welcome - but please try to engage in ways that actually promote meaningful discussion.

 

Couldn't I say the same to you?  All I did was dispute your claim that Brady's passes traveled .6 yds in the air. All you had to do was correct your verbiage and/or clarify that you actually meant average completed yards or average intended air yards rather than "his throws traveled ___yds in the air".

 

Deep passing has not been a big part of the Patriots offense for a long time now. That is a fact whether you can admit it or not. Part of 2017 doesn't change that. Pointing that out further illustrates that the dinking and dunking is nothing new. So claiming he's a glorified Alex Smith simply doesn't make sense.

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5 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

 

Couldn't I say the same to you?

 

Deep passing has not been a big part of the Patriots offense for a long time now. That is a fact whether you can admit it or not. Part of 2017 doesn't change that.

 

Pointing that out further illustrates that the dinking and dunking is nothing new. So claiming he's a glorified Alex Smith simply doesn't make sense.

 

Either way though. To cap it off, sure. Brady is Alex Smith and his passes for over a quarter yesterday only traveled .6 yds in the air. They were basically handoffs.

 

Um, no.  I mean you could say the same to me, but you’d be wrong on several counts.

 

I’m going to end my role in this derail - if reading published proof, in a highly respected periodical, of the fact that Brady was a deep-ball passer as recently as last season isn’t sufficient to convince you, I have nothing more to say.

 

At least your username checks out.

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Just now, BMcP said:

 

Um, no.  I mean you could say the same to be, but you’d be wrong on several counts.

 

I’m going to end my role in this derail - if reading published proof, in a highly respected periodical, of the fact that Brady was a deep-ball passer as recently as last season isn’t sufficient to convince you, I have nothing more to say.

 

At least your username checks out.

So to make sure I understand your stance...

 

Something doesn't happen for years. Then happens partially in one year. Then doesn't the following year. You would say it's consistent? I know he threw more deep passes last year. But not the year prior, or the year prior, or the year prior, and so forth. And not this year either. So my assessment that he hasn't needed deep passing to be effective STILL STANDS.

 

I said what I said to show that your assessment that he's all of a sudden "Alex Smith" is simply incorrect. Your implication that all of a sudden this is the year he stopped throwing downfield makes no sense. I don't know how else to explain this?

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5 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

I gotta go with KC here. That offense is just a juggernaught.

 

but we know what happened with Peyton's juggernaught a few years ago.

 

it should be a great game regardless

 

It'll be a great game! Glad to see the actual best 4 teams as the 4 that are left.

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Full disclosure, I'm a huge Tom Brady acolyte and haters often throw it in my face that he's a dinker and dunker. 

To this I say, so what? Are you saying that if the Pats had Alex Smith they'd be just as effective? Sure, if they won one Super Bowl. Or two. But this isn't the case. They are the greatest dynasty the NFL has ever seen and there's been only two consistents -- Air BnB. 

You might also do well to remember Brady hasn't always been a dinker and dunker - he's farkin' 41 years old!

Edited by Gandalfthecat
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13 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

So to make sure I understand your stance...

 

Something doesn't happen for years. Then happens partially in one year. Then doesn't the following year. You would say it's consistent? I know he threw more deep passes last year. But not the year prior, or the year prior, or the year prior, and so forth. And not this year either. So my assessment that he hasn't needed deep passing to be effective STILL STANDS.

 

I said what I said to show that your assessment that he's all of a sudden "Alex Smith" is simply incorrect. Your implication that all of a sudden this is the year he stopped throwing downfield makes no sense. I don't know how else to explain this?

 

Unsurprisingly, you don’t understand my stance.  No, Brady didn’t only throw deep balls for a part of 2017 and at no other time in history.  Among regular full-time starting QBs, he finished 2017 in the top ten in Average Completed Air Yards (ACAY).  The year before, when Next Gen Stats began tracking this, he finished right around the league average (basically tied with Big Ben and Rodgers). 

 

This year, his ACAY is WAY down.  And if you actually watch the games, you can see why - his deep-pass attempts lack both velocity and accuracy.  This has been a frequent topic of discussion within both the fan and fantasy communities.  It’s a clear sign of age-related decline, and his style of play at the moment is comparable to Alex Smith’s.

 

If you disagree with my take, that’s fine, I don’t mind.  But the facts are indisputable.

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28 minutes ago, devaster said:

Wasn't Alex Smith the most efficient deep passer in the NFL last season or the season before? I honestly think it is a tough stat to gauge because there are a lot of factors in throwing deep.

 

I know it feels like he should’ve been, but in fact he was rather poor: 5.7 ACAY in 2017.  Right around the likes of Trubisky and Osweiler.  

 

I still think that was the most effective season he’d ever had going deep.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

I know it feels like he should’ve been, but in fact he was rather poor: 5.7 ACAY in 2017.  Right around the likes of Trubisky and Osweiler.  

 

I still think that was the most effective season he’d ever had going deep.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-most-accurate-deep-ball-passers-in-2017

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