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Tom Brady 2019 Outlook


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1 hour ago, BMcP said:

It seems really odd to bring up the salary cap when discussing Brady and his very team-friendly deals with the Patriots.

 

That is part of what makes him the GOAT.

 

In regards to winning, it would obviously be easier with no cap. Not sure how you can disagree.

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It depends what your definition of GOAT is. Honestly, i'm not too into NFL history like I am with the NBA so I can only speak from guys i've seen.  PERSONALLY, I rather have Rodgers and Manning.

Wow, you "Seattle sychophants" are angry people. I cannot stand Boston sports fans for the most part, but how about giving them the respect of calling them fans instead of "sychophants"? Lik

Logic always goes out the window when discussing Brady because if you don't like him you've already made up your mind on this years ago and nothing will change your opinion.. he could win two more Sup

1 hour ago, bhawks489 said:

I don’t even like picking the GOAT by how many rings they have. This is a team sport. 

 

The SB argument is actually the laziest one to make.  Given how so many things have to go right with offense, defense, special teams injuries and coaching to get to the SB. I like to look at the individual. Peyton factually cahnged the position of the QB and how the position is played today. Those who argue against peyton point out his last SB was on by his defense yet those who love Brady don't accept that his defenses and special teams play won at least 3 of the pats SB's not his arm 😂

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10 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

The SB argument is actually the laziest one to make.  Given how so many things have to go right with offense, defense, special teams injuries and coaching to get to the SB. I like to look at the individual. Peyton factually cahnged the position of the QB and how the position is played today. Those who argue against peyton point out his last SB was on by his defense yet those who love Brady don't accept that his defenses and special teams play won at least 3 of the pats SB's not his arm 😂

 

Brady / Manning stopped being an argument a long time ago.

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31 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

That is part of what makes him the GOAT.

 

In regards to winning, it would obviously be easier with no cap. Not sure how you can disagree.

I don’t see how you can agree it’s “easier” with a cap.  If you play in a league where you have a HOF QB willing to give you repeated salary-cap relief in a league with a salary cap?  I would say it’s easier to win.

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1 minute ago, BMcP said:

I don’t see how you can agree it’s “easier” with a cap.  If you play in a league where you have a HOF QB willing to give you repeated salary-cap relief in a league with a salary cap?  I would say it’s easier to win.

 

Umm. Just paying up for whoever you want is surely easier.

 

Either way, his selflessness in regards to his contract is PART of what made him so great.

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1 minute ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Umm. Just paying up for whoever you want is surely easier.

 

Either way, his selflessness in regards to his contract is PART of what made him so great.

You brought up the “no cap is easier” argument. I just refuted that.

 

God, Brady is so selfless.  Get back to me about why this future HOFer decided he didn’t want to exhaust his right of appeal and just accepted a suspension for something he didn’t do.

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4 minutes ago, BMcP said:

You brought up the “no cap is easier” argument. I just refuted that.

 

 

 

Right but you are 100% wrong. Most of the dynasties across all sports are from when there was no cap. 

 

I said he was selfless, just in regards to his contract. You disagree with that too?

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1 minute ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Right but you are 100% wrong. Most of the dynasties across all sports are from when there was no cap. 

Don’t understand the “right but 100% wrong” argument.  Can you articulate a coherent counter-argument?

You also didn’t address why Thomas Brady decided to stop defending his reputation and accepted a wrongful suspension.

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I'm unclear on why Brady gave up in a fight he knew he was set up to lose has literally anything to do with the debate that it's factually easier to load up a team with no cap than it is with a cap and whether or not Brady is the GOAT.

Brady is the GOAT. Anyone not interested in arguing just for the sake of arguing agrees with this.

It's a senseless "debate". Anyone who thinks otherwise made up their mind a long time ago and can not be reasoned with as their minds are made up out of hate for Tom Brady/New England.

Let's just move on.

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10 minutes ago, BMcP said:

 

You also didn’t address why Thomas Brady decided to stop defending his reputation and accepted a wrongful suspension.

 

 

Because that has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

I'm not gonna argue the salary cap thing too much. Just look at dynasties like the Canadiens, Celtics, Yankees, etc. Teams won an absurd amount of titles in a row before the cap was a thing. 

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5 minutes ago, bhawks489 said:

What are the parameters people are using to determine the GOAT? I get that’s its a conglomeration of things but what are the most important ones? Super Bowls? Longevity? Passing yards/game?

 

Personal bias is most important.

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34 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

 

Because that has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

I'm not gonna argue the salary cap thing too much. Just look at dynasties like the Canadiens, Celtics, Yankees, etc. Teams won an absurd amount of titles in a row before the cap was a thing. 

Well, you called me “100% wrong,” but whatevs.

 

If you don’t want to explain what the relevance of a salary cap is, that’s fine.

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2 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Well, you called me “100% wrong,” but whatevs.

 

If you don’t want to explain what the relevance of a salary cap is, that’s fine.

 

I dunno man. Your point is 'It is easier to win in the salary cap era than before." I feel like 99% of people disagree with that and it is just kind of common sense. 

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1 minute ago, dmb3684 said:

 

I dunno man. Your point is 'It is easier to win in the salary cap era than before." I feel like 99% of people disagree with that and it is just kind of common sense. 

I suppose - I thought my point was, in a salary-cap era, Brady giving discounts to his home team helped his team do better.  Maybe I missed something, though.

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1 hour ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Umm. Just paying up for whoever you want is surely easier.

 

Either way, his selflessness in regards to his contract is PART of what made him so great.

 

So when did these no cap super teams of billionaire players exist in the NFL? You do also know you are talking about eras where there was no free agent market as you have today. Players generally were owned by their teams until the end of their careers. 

Also smart teams have been able to work the angles on salary cap restrictions to keep or obtain the players they want. Again Brady did not give the Pats a massive discount instead what he did was restructure his ocntract every couple of years to give the Pats cap room flexibilty and this was possible because the Pats would then pay him more cash earlier on each restructure and keep his pay inline with the rest of the top QB's. So it was a win for both sides, Brady got his cash faster than the intial term structure and the pats had space available to build the team they needed. The biggest risk to Brady was injury or the Pats cutting him and he woldnt have locked in the long term guaranteed money.

Your salary cap argument has very little merit. 

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14 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

So when did these no cap super teams of billionaire players exist in the NFL? You do also know you are talking about eras where there was no free agent market as you have today. Players generally were owned by their teams until the end of their careers. 

 

 

EXACTLY. The Niners had a stacked team..

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12 minutes ago, dmb3684 said:

 

EXACTLY. The Niners had a stacked team..

 

I'm not familiar with the owners aside from Joe montana, Jerry Rice  and the dude that cut off his finger to keep playing n a game. Were they paying gobs of money to build that team? Did other teams also do the same?  I recall the Giants  were coached by Parcells during this era and I never read anything that showed they were paying gobs of money to build a super team to win their SB's. I think the only star they had on those teams was Lawrence Taylor and the QB was more of a game manager.  Fill me in on the details because this was before I had a real interest in the NFL

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7 hours ago, dmb3684 said:

 

Personal bias is most important.

 

Personal bias is the only relevant factor because it is a purely subjective topic. Unlike the usual rationale Brady lovers use, you don't have to hate Tom to not believe he is NOT the GOAT.  It's not his fault that he succeeded as a great NFL QB despite the fact that most people think he is as interesting as a loaf of bread 🤣

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9 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

I'm not familiar with the owners aside from Joe montana, Jerry Rice  and the dude that cut off his finger to keep playing n a game. Were they paying gobs of money to build that team? Did other teams also do the same?  I recall the Giants  were coached by Parcells during this era and I never read anything that showed they were paying gobs of money to build a super team to win their SB's. I think the only star they had on those teams was Lawrence Taylor and the QB was more of a game manager.  Fill me in on the details because this was before I had a real interest in the NFL

 

The Giants had most of the stars on  defense: this is there 1990 super bowl winning roster

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/1990.htm

 

Niners 1989 Roster

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1989.htm

 

Roger Craig (better than any RB that the Pats had)

John Taylor was a pretty good WR

 

 

No, some owners were notoriously cheap and some good/great teams stayed together for years as the owners could pay anybody how much the want and I'm pretty sure real free agency didn't start in the NFL until 1993: here is an interesting article

 

https://frontofficenfl.com/2018/03/13/the-history-of-nfl-free-agency/

 

 

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16 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

I'm not familiar with the owners aside from Joe montana, Jerry Rice  and the dude that cut off his finger to keep playing n a game. Were they paying gobs of money to build that team? Did other teams also do the same?  I recall the Giants  were coached by Parcells during this era and I never read anything that showed they were paying gobs of money to build a super team to win their SB's. I think the only star they had on those teams was Lawrence Taylor and the QB was more of a game manager.  Fill me in on the details because this was before I had a real interest in the NFL

In 1990, the 49ers had the highest payroll in the NFL at 26.8 million. This was about 20% more than the 2nd highest team (Jets, 22.45). The Giants were 6th (20.5). Pittsburgh was lowest at 13.1, so they paid about 50 cents on the dollar versus the 49ers. The median payroll looks like it was around 19 million.  

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16 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

I'm not familiar with the owners aside from Joe montana, Jerry Rice  and the dude that cut off his finger to keep playing n a game. Were they paying gobs of money to build that team? Did other teams also do the same?  I recall the Giants  were coached by Parcells during this era and I never read anything that showed they were paying gobs of money to build a super team to win their SB's. I think the only star they had on those teams was Lawrence Taylor and the QB was more of a game manager.  Fill me in on the details because this was before I had a real interest in the NFL

 

Someone beat me to it Shoe. But what the poster above said.

 

To add, Once a great team was in place prior to the salary cap, the players and the owners would want to keep the team intact for mutually beneficial reasons. There wasnt nearly the amount of player movement and parity from year to year. 

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11 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

Personal bias is the only relevant factor because it is a purely subjective topic. Unlike the usual rationale Brady lovers use, you don't have to hate Tom to not believe he is NOT the GOAT.  It's not his fault that he succeeded as a great NFL QB despite the fact that most people think he is as interesting as a loaf of bread 🤣

 

FWIW I don't think it is a fact that TB is the Goat. I didn't see enough of Montana to compare the two. Some people just go overboard with the TB hate and act like he is not even in the discussion; he most certainly is, regardless of how much disdain one might have for him.

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