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Advice on H2H POINTS Settings. Help please!


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So, I'm trying to commish a point based H2H league. I've never done this before and understand the difficulting in balancing everything. 

I'd prefer the balance to be as similar as the traditional 5x5 that I am used to (standard settings, say on Y!).  I don't want a point system that favors aces so much that their the only things that matters.

 

1) How to limit streaming? Is weekly line up changes the best for this? Wouldn't that mean 2-start pitchers for the week will win most weeks?

2) What point system works? So far I like what I've seen here:

Hitters

Run: 1pt

Single: 1pt

Double: 2pts

Triple: 3pts

Home Run: 4pts

RBI: 1pt

Walk: 1pt

HBP: 1pt

Steal: 2pts

Caught Stealing: -1pt

Pretty standard here, our points don't stack however like u/STLkrolic's league. So a solo HR is 6 (with R and RBI), triple 3, double 2, etc. So our scoring tends to favor power hitters. Also we don't do negative points for K's (just always been that way).

Pitchers

IP: 3pts (so 1 point per out)

Hit: -1pt

Walk: -1pt

Hit Batter: -1pt

Strikeout: 1pt

Earned Run: -2pts

Win: 4pts

Quality Start: 4pts

Loss: -4pts

Save: 4pts

Blown Save: -2pts

Shutout: 15pts

No Hitter: 25pts

Perfect Game: 40pts

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I've made it now 14 total teams and a roster of 25 per team:

C, 1b, 2b, 3b, SS, Of, OF, OF, UTIL, UTIL
SP, SP, SP, SP, SP, RP, RP, P 

7 x Bench

Is there anyway to avoid having RP-eligible starters rule the league? Is there anyway to stop teams from picking up the 2-week starters every week? Thanks.

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On 3/4/2019 at 11:31 AM, CrypTviLL said:

So, I'm trying to commish a point based H2H league. I've never done this before and understand the difficulting in balancing everything. 

I'd prefer the balance to be as similar as the traditional 5x5 that I am used to (standard settings, say on Y!).  I don't want a point system that favors aces so much that their the only things that matters.

 

1) How to limit streaming? Is weekly line up changes the best for this? Wouldn't that mean 2-start pitchers for the week will win most weeks?

2) What point system works? So far I like what I've seen here:

Hitters

Caught Stealing: -1pt

Pretty standard here, our points don't stack however like u/STLkrolic's league. So a solo HR is 6 (with R and RBI), triple 3, double 2, etc. So our scoring tends to favor power hitters. Also we don't do negative points for K's (just always been that way).

Pitchers

Strikeout: 1pt

Loss: -4pts

Shutout: 15pts

No Hitter: 25pts

Perfect Game: 40pts

These are the cats I'd edit. #1) I'd say don't score CS. The scoring you have now heavily favors power bats in general (because of no scoring against K's). Otherwise, hitting looks standard (even though I'd advocate for scoring K's. Even if it's -.5 points per K. Something to help even it out. Plus, I hate my pitcher going against my hitter and me hoping for my hitter to K so I get more points than if he just grounds out). 

 

For pitchers, I like K's being 1.5. It puts an emphasis (rightfully so) on guys who tend to have more value in the league (aka K more). 

I don't like scoring losses. I don't mind scoring wins (though I prefer not scoring either and just making a QS worth more). I would knock the losses off completely, or cut them down somewhat. 

Way, way, way too many points for shutout, no hitter, and perfect game. The pitcher gets a mega score on a no hitter without the bonus points. James Paxton's no-no last year would have been 39 points without any bonuses (1 pt per out, 1 pt per k, -1 per BB). Tack on the bonuses and that's 80. A ~40 is already a monster game. Doubling it makes it almost insurmountable for the opposing team in H2H. I'd score 3 points per complete game, 5 points per shutout, 10 per no no, and not score a perfect game. 

 

I have played a ton of h2h points leagues. A way to prevent hitting streaming is to make each AB -.5 points. Then score a H as 2 points, a 1B as 1, a 2B as 2, a 3B as 3, and a HR as 4. 

Guys with ~600 AB's will lose 300 points on a -.5 per AB. If you take a guy like Justin Upton, who had 137 hits and 533 AB's, he'd lose ~265 points for AB's,  but gain back 274 for hits. What this does is keep guys from cycling batters on off days (You really wanna add Kevin Pillar and risk an 0-4 day with a K? Ok, -3 points for you). It makes bats more volatile day to day, but still somewhath consistent. 


To prevent streaming pitching, good luck. A starts limit is the only way to really do it, but ESPN's system is flawed in that it will let you pass the starts limit, but throw no starts the rest of the matchup. 

So if your starts limit is 7 and you throw your 7th start on Friday, you're done. But if you have 6 starts, and 5 guys starting on Saturday, you can throw all 5 and they all count because you entered the day without having hit your max starts. 

To nuke the RP eligible SP's values, have no SP spots, just P spots. You risk a team owning half a dozen RP's (they are free points) but that's less rsoter space for them to store bench bats and speculative SP adds or what not. You can also put a limit on RP eligible arms that can be rostered. I'm not sure how it handles dual eligibility, though. Just set an RP limit of 4 and have just P spots, those guys won't have extra value just because of eligibility. 

 

Just some food for thought. 

 

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On 3/4/2019 at 10:31 AM, CrypTviLL said:

I don't want a point system that favors aces so much that their the only things that matters.

Pitchers

IP: 3pts (so 1 point per out)

 

This is the reason aces matter so much.  Guys like Scherzer dominate the points leagues because they pitch so many innings and get so many K's.  When most SP only go 6 maybe 7 these days, the more points you assign to IP, the more its gonna favor the aces.  

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On 3/4/2019 at 10:31 AM, CrypTviLL said:

 

1) How to limit streaming? Is weekly line up changes the best for this? Wouldn't that mean 2-start pitchers for the week will win most weeks?

 

 

2 start pitchers will always be a part of points leagues.  Unless you have daily transactions with a limited number of moves per week.  That can help a little, but still wont change the fact that when Max pitches on Monday, you are getting a 2nd start on the weekend.  Your best bet is to have lineups lock at the start of the week to stop people from adding/dropping SP throughout the week.  If you must have daily lineup changes, limit the number of pickups per week to say 3.  Or limit the number of SP you can pick up un any given week

 

One thing about 2 start weeks:  it does help bring the aces back to earth when they dont pitch twice in a given week.  2 starts from a guy like Newcomb or Marco can help combat the one start of Scherzer.  Now when the aces pitch twice, ouch.  But thats usually once every 3-4 weeks

Edited by TheTruth024
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Thanks for the post guys. 

The "P" options VS. the SP/RP would have been a smart way to go. That would eliminate RP eligible SP, so I agree there.

 

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This looks like a decent scoring system.  I don't like the huge points that are available for shutouts and such.  I would give a bonus but those are way to high IMO.  

I've run a H2H points setup for several years.  It's a daily format to combat the streaming of two start pitchers.  The other way I limit streaming and try to equalize the Hitters and pitchers is I only allow 9 starts per week.  This way the owner has to make decisions on which pitcher to start each day.

 

I also added 2 points for a hold this season.  With the landscape of saves and closer's changing throughout baseball I feel it's necessary to make adjustments to the fantasy game as well.

 

Hope this helps.

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3 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

So if your starts limit is 7 and you throw your 7th start on Friday, you're done. But if you have 6 starts, and 5 guys starting on Saturday, you can throw all 5 and they all count because you entered the day without having hit your max starts. 

 

I run my league on Fantrax and they have the same issue.  We allow 9 starts per week and it works out pretty well.  At the end of the season hitting and pitching are really close.  However, in order the alleviate the issue of going above the start limit I have a blurb in the league constitution.  It basically says it's the owners responsibly to count pitcher starts and not go above it.  Should the owner go above the 9 start limit the only start(s) that will count for that day are the lowest scores up to the limit of 9.

There is a little bit of a leaning curve for the owners in the league but It's worked really well.  Owners that went over the 9 have only done it once.  Two of them lost because of this.

 

FYI, I really hate the idea of losing points for an AB.  That doesn't make any sense at all.  I'd much prefer losing points for a negative play.  An AB is not a negative play, it literally devalues players in a good offense that bat at the top of the order.  

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Daily set. I use a 10 start limit per week with a max of 9 SPs on a roster. if someone goes over the limit they lose the points from their best start that week and the 11th start doesn't count of course. I added games started as a category and set it to 0 points so it's easy to keep track of it. QS and Wins = 5. Hitting is pretty much standard. Hits=.25

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On 3/6/2019 at 2:58 PM, Jvanspro said:

However, in order the alleviate the issue of going above the start limit I have a blurb in the league constitution.  It basically says it's the owners responsibly to count pitcher starts and not go above it.  Should the owner go above the 9 start limit the only start(s) that will count for that day are the lowest scores up to the limit of 9.

 There is a little bit of a leaning curve for the owners in the league but It's worked really well.  Owners that went over the 9 have only done it once.  Two of them lost because of this.

 

FYI, I really hate the idea of losing points for an AB.  That doesn't make any sense at all.  I'd much prefer losing points for a negative play.  An AB is not a negative play, it literally devalues players in a good offense that bat at the top of the order.  

We do the same thing about starts. If you go over I'm not going to figure out who technically started first. ESPN tracks it during the week. When you see your matchup it will say something like "5/7 games started" or what not, right there with the scoring. We also don't have an issue with anyone going over the starts, it happens once or twice a year. I remove the highest scores until it gets them within the limit as a  way to prevent it, same as you. 

I can see where you'd think that on AB. However, also consider that you add even more points for a H when you get one. An at bat in itself is not a negative play, persay. However, going hitless is. If you go 0-5 on the day with no R, RBI, SF, SH, BB, you had a negative impact on your team for the day. This does reflect that. Even more importantly, it will increase the risk of streaming bats and will not favor the guys who get on daily to make those moves. Only 1 of my leagues scores -.5 per AB, and I actually do like it quite a bit. A 1-3 day with just a single with no other stats would be 1.5 points instead of 1. Usually, you'd just get 1 point for the single. But since AB's are -.5, all hits are 2 extra points, so you'd have 2 points for getting 1 hit, + 1 point for the single - 1.5 for the AB's. 1.5 points. A 0-4 day with a K would be -3. A 2 for 3 day with a double, 1 r, 1 rbi would 7.5 (versus 5 for standard). It's just more volatile, in the end the #'s work out to be about the same. Again, the point is to give less incentive to constantly stream (which doesn't usually exist in a points league for batters). A games played limit would also work, but I don't think that's very useful in H2H. 

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2 hours ago, sngehl01 said:

I can see where you'd think that on AB. However, also consider that you add even more points for a H when you get one. An at bat in itself is not a negative play, persay. However, going hitless is. If you go 0-5 on the day with no R, RBI, SF, SH, BB, you had a negative impact on your team for the day. This does reflect that. Even more importantly, it will increase the risk of streaming bats and will not favor the guys who get on daily to make those moves. Only 1 of my leagues scores -.5 per AB, and I actually do like it quite a bit. A 1-3 day with just a single with no other stats would be 1.5 points instead of 1. Usually, you'd just get 1 point for the single. But since AB's are -.5, all hits are 2 extra points, so you'd have 2 points for getting 1 hit, + 1 point for the single - 1.5 for the AB's. 1.5 points. A 0-4 day with a K would be -3. A 2 for 3 day with a double, 1 r, 1 rbi would 7.5 (versus 5 for standard). It's just more volatile, in the end the #'s work out to be about the same. Again, the point is to give less incentive to constantly stream (which doesn't usually exist in a points league for batters). A games played limit would also work, but I don't think that's very useful in H2H

This actually makes a lot of sense after your explanation.  Thank you for clarifying.  One of the things I struggle with each year running a points league is to limit giving an advantage to players that stream and have the scoring for pitching and hitting equal.  I noticed most of the league streamed catchers last season, we all know how weak that position is.  Especially in a points format where they rarely play 130 games.  So, this season I removed the position and added a extra utility spot.

 

I will highly consider your point format next season.  We are in the middle of our draft right now.  Changing the scoring now would greatly change a lot of players pre -draft evaluation.

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