Lamar Jackson 2019 Outlook

[dashoe 6,462]

1 hour ago, Chippa said:

You’re right. Im just pulling that longevity opinion out of thin air, and not basing it on past history of running qb’s. Yep. Hot takes only

Why do mobile qb’s have the most fanboys?

 

Andrew Luck and his broken body says hello!.

 

How soon do people forget how recently the NFL changed the  framework  of roughing the passer penalty because pocket QB's were getting destroyed by pass rushers. Clay matthews had to change his enire style of sacking the QB because of it but yeah "running" QB's take a lot of big hits 🤣

[Gohawks 10,369]

1 hour ago, Sartorialism said:

 

As you seem to consider "mobile" and "running" QBs to be one and the same, how many years until Russell Wilson hits your arbitrary definition of "longevity"?

My point wasn't to suggest your opinion isn't common, the opposite; "hot take" was sarcastic. I'm saying it's a basic as hell opinion with little chance of accountability. You're only accountable if you're "right" by an undefined measure.

I’ve mentioned this multiple times when it comes to injuries Wilson is a freak and an anomaly. 

He got his knee bent 45 degrees to the side. You’d think his season is over. He didn’t miss a single snap. 

It’s like bringing up Lebron in an injury debate. These two are made out of something else. 

[Chippa 1,369]

2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

Andrew Luck and his broken body says hello!.

 

How soon do people forget how recently the NFL changed the  framework  of roughing the passer penalty because pocket QB's were getting destroyed by pass rushers. Clay matthews had to change his enire style of sacking the QB because of it but yeah "running" QB's take a lot of big hits 🤣

Andre Luck was the very definition of wreckless. Throwing his body around like it was nothing. Not to mention his o-line was bad.

im just saying, Cam Newton shouldnt be done at age 30.

and eventually, the NFL adapts, and they get tape. Look what happened to Kaepernick.

once again, people are being antagonistic because they feel Im attacking the guy? Wrong

He’s great, but as the years go by, he will have to adapt 

[PizzaBeerFF 764]

Lamar is just like watching Vick. Eventually Vick took bad hit to ribs. But he was fun to watch. As was Young before him. I’m a pats fan, but there are certain teams I look for because I love watching exciting football. Usually Ravens were not in that category. Now I look for their games. They have a team capable of Super Bowl champs if no injuries occur. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by PizzaBeerFF

[cizastro 460]

1 minute ago, Chippa said:

Andre Luck was the very definition of wreckless. Throwing his body around like it was nothing. Not to mention his o-line was bad.

im just saying, Cam Newton shouldnt be done at age 30.

and eventually, the NFL adapts, and they get tape. Look what happened to Kaepernick.

once again, people are being antagonistic because they feel Im attacking the guy? Wrong

He’s great, but as the years go by, he will have to adapt 

 

Kaepernick couldn't hit a parked semi on a field though.  The difference between Jackson and other rushing QB's from the past is that Jackson has the precision of an elite pocket-passer AND can run circles around you.  People adapted to Kaepernick once they figured out he couldn't hit an open WR if his life depended on it.

[dashoe 6,462]

7 minutes ago, Chippa said:

Andre Luck was the very definition of wreckless. Throwing his body around like it was nothing. Not to mention his o-line was bad.

im just saying, Cam Newton shouldnt be done at age 30.

and eventually, the NFL adapts, and they get tape.

 

Look what happened to Kaepernick.

 

once again, people are being antagonistic because they feel Im attacking the guy? Wrong

He’s great, but as the years go by, he will have to adapt 

 

What happened to Kapernick?

I recall Greg roman and Harbaugh leaving the Niners end of 2014 and then the team brought in  Jim Tomsula in 2015 and Chip in 2016 the team sat him and went into full blown tank mode.

 

Also cams Newtons injuries didnt occur while he was running the ball. Why do people keep making up thses false narratives.

Edited November 26, 2019 by dashoe

[Chippa 1,369]

3 minutes ago, cizastro said:

 

Kaepernick couldn't hit a parked semi on a field though.  The difference between Jackson and other rushing QB's from the past is that Jackson has the precision of an elite pocket-passer AND can run circles around you.  People adapted to Kaepernick once they figured out he couldn't hit an open WR if his life depended on it.

Pump the brakes lol

Dude threw an awful pass to a wide open hollywood brown that wouldve been a touchdown if he had this so called elite passing precision.

is he more accurate than kaepernick? Sure.

is he great? Yes. But pump the brakes with the elite accuracy nonsense

[Chippa 1,369]

2 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

What happened to Kapernick?

I recall Greg roman and Harbaugh leaving the Niners end of 2014 and then the team brought in  Jim Tomsula in 2015 and Chip in 2016 the team sat him and went into full blown tank mode 

Uhh... he stopped playing good. League adapted to his style

[Sartorialism 111]

5 minutes ago, Chippa said:

Andre Luck was the very definition of wreckless. Throwing his body around like it was nothing. Not to mention his o-line was bad.

im just saying, Cam Newton shouldnt be done at age 30.

and eventually, the NFL adapts, and they get tape. Look what happened to Kaepernick.

once again, people are being antagonistic because they feel Im attacking the guy? Wrong

He’s great, but as the years go by, he will have to adapt 

 

Well this is the 2019 outlook thread. The people being antagonistic in this scenario are those who've come barging into the discussion about the present to tell us their irrelevant tales of woe about the distant future. 

[cizastro 460]

Just now, Chippa said:

Pump the brakes lol

Dude threw an awful pass to a wide open hollywood brown that wouldve been a touchdown if he had this so called elite passing precision.

is he more accurate than kaepernick? Sure.

is he great? Yes. But pump the brakes with the elite accuracy nonsense

 

Agree to disagree.  Time will tell, but he's shown way more accuracy and precision than just about any mobile QB that I can remember.  That's always been the knock on mobile QB's.  They're fast as hell, but they can't actually throw well.  Jackson throws well. 

[dashoe 6,462]

2 minutes ago, Chippa said:

Uhh... he stopped playing good. League adapted to his style

 

 

Wrong!  He lost his HC and OC who put him in position to be successful and a team that went into tank mode.

hey how is Ryan tannehil playing these days on the Titans  when he was the suckiest QB under Gase?  Nick foles was a bum on the rams under fisdher and the became a SB stud on the eagles. how do these things happen in the NFL😂

Edited November 27, 2019 by dashoe

[Gohawks 10,369]

3 hours ago, dashoe said:

 

 

 So a QB with over 500 rushing yard in a season is a "rushing" QB?  i can't enter into a meaningful debate unless you define the criteria/profile.  First you said injuries can be predicted for "rushing" QB's, now it's guys with 500 or more rushing yards who flamed out by 30 and then you call a couple of successsful guys anomolies but how can they be anomalies if your sample pool based on your criteria is 10 guys?  

Dude you are all over the place with your process😂

So maybe start with differntiating between what is a a "mobile" QB vs a "rushing QB vs a pocket QB.  You mentioned Deshaun but I don't think anyone would call Deshaun a "rushing" QB same as I dont call Russell Wilson a "rushing QB.

 

 The first problem you will face is sample size. The league drafts a certain profile of QB as a standard, so We can also show how many hundreds of pocket passers have flamed out after a season or 2 since 2000 As u stated out of you pool of 10 rushing there are 2 successes which is 20%, What is the success rate for passing QB's drafted since 2000? 😂

Give me something to work with you on this. 😝

My criteria was very simple. Guys since 2000 with 500 or more rushing yards in a season. The list is actually 12 if you include Watson and Jackson. The argument presented is not "Do rushing QBs get injured more" rather "Do QBs that run the ball significantly above average get injured more". You keep pushing for a definition of "rushing QB" when that definition can be anything and it is also irrelevant. 500 yards is a good sample to conclude that a QB runs a lot more than usual.

However, let's say you exclude Wilson, Watson, and a few others. That really leaves you with Pryor, Kaep, Vick, and RG3 as guys who you can argue were primarily rushing QBs.

Pryor - Let's be real. No one ever really considered him to be a serious QB

Kaep -Had one full season of being good. That's it

RG3 - For all intents and purposes career ended during his rookie year

Vick - The only real case to be made. Although he had 4 full seasons in Atlanta, sat out 3 years, had one killer year in Philly, and then fell off a cliff. So his career is more "what could have been" than anything else.

So if we use the criteria you are searching for the sample size is ridiculously small. I'll give you that. However, every QB above either got figured out or didn't last. Vick had 5 or 6 seasons of nice production and that's it. Basically the shelf life of a RB. Will Jackson be the first to break the trend? Who knows? However, if I was a betting man I would bet against it. 3 of the 4 above were seen in the exact same light as Jackson: guys who are going to change the game with their running ability. Just remember that. Hindsight bias aside they were seen as game changing studs.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Gohawks

[Chippa 1,369]

Just now, cizastro said:

 

Agree to disagree.  Time will tell, but he's shown way more accuracy and precision than just about any mobile QB that I can remember.  That's always been the knock on mobile QB's.  They're fast as hell, but they can't actually throw well.  Jackson throws well. 

“Mobile qb”

yea, he’s not more accurate than Rodgers or Wilson or Mahomes. I think you mean “running qb”

and yes, it is true, he is the most accurate

[ToeDragSwag 102]

Lamar is an elite running QB that is for sure. Lamar Jackson is a very good passer and has a very good arm. Much better than most thought he did coming out of the draft. He has the entire package and when he is on the field 99.9% of the time he is the fastest guy out there so when he gets to the outside it is very difficult to stop him. 

[Chippa 1,369]

2 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

My criteria was very simple. Guys since 2000 with 500 or more rushing yards in a season. The list is actually 12 if you include Watson and Jackson. The argument presented is not "Do rushing QBs get injured more" rather "Do QBs that run the ball significantly above average get injured more". You keep pushing for a definition of "rushing QB" when that definition can be anything and it is also irrelevant. 500 yards is a good sample to conclude that a QB runs a lot more than usual.

However, let's say you exclude Wilson, Watson, and a few others. That really leaves you with Pryor, Kaep, Vick, and RG3 as guys who you can argue were primarily rushing QBs.

Pryor - Let's be real. No one ever really considered him to be a serious QB

Kaep -Had one full season of being good. That's it

RG3 - For all intents and purposes career ended during his rookie year

Vick - The only real case to be made. Although he had 4 full seasons in Atlanta, sat out 3 years, had one killer year in Philly, and then fell off a cliff. So his career is more "what could have been" than anything else.

So if we use the criteria you are searching for the sample size is ridiculously small. I'll give you that. However, every QB above either got figured out or didn't last. Vick had 5 or 6 seasons of nice production and that's it. Basically the shelf life of a RB. Will Jackson be the first to break the trend? Who knows? However, if I was a betting man I wouldn't bet against it. 3 of the 4 above were seen in the exact same light as Jackson: guys who are going to change the game with their running ability. Just remember that. Hindsight bias aside they were seen as game changing studs.

Well said

and Vick only had 1 season where he played all 16 games as a starter. Took a beating

[cizastro 460]

2 minutes ago, Chippa said:

“Mobile qb”

yea, he’s not more accurate than Rodgers or Wilson or Mahomes. I think you mean “running qb”

and yes, it is true, he is the most accurate

 

Not sure how you measure accuracy, but Jackson's 66.9% completion percentage is right in line with those guys you mentioned.  The only one with a better completion percentage this season is Wilson at 67.3%.

[dashoe 6,462]

1 minute ago, ToeDragSwag said:

Lamar is an elite running QB that is for sure. Lamar Jackson is a very good passer and has a very good arm. Much better than most thought he did coming out of the draft. He has the entire package and when he is on the field 99.9% of the time he is the fastest guy out there so when he gets to the outside it is very difficult to stop him. 

 

the way people keep calling him a runnng or rushing QB you woulf think this was a wishbone offense they were running and he never PASSED for over 2400yds and 24 td's 😂

[Chippa 1,369]

6 minutes ago, dashoe said:

 

 

Wrong!  He lost his HC and OC who put him in position to be successful and a team that went into tank mode.

hey how is Ryan tannehil playing these days on the Titans  when he was the suckiest QB under Gase?  Nick foles was a bum on the rams under fisdher and the became a SB stud on the eagles. how do these things happen in the NFL😂

Tannehill wasnt bad in Miami.

Foles had a bad o-line in st louis, and he wasnt a stud when he won the superbowl. Dude game managed all the way. Did a nice job, but was not a stud

[Chippa 1,369]

1 minute ago, cizastro said:

 

Not sure how you measure accuracy, but Jackson's 66.9% completion percentage is right in line with those guys you mentioned.  The only one with a better completion percentage this season is Wilson at 67.3%.

Passers who throw short passes tend to have higher completion percentages. It’s not the end all be all tale for evaluating a qb’s accuracy

[PizzaBeerFF 764]

1 minute ago, dashoe said:

 

the way people keep calling him a runnng or rushing QB you woulf think this was a wishbone offense they were running and he never PASSED for over 2400yds and 24 td's 😂

Don’t fret that total will come up.

[ToeDragSwag 102]

1 minute ago, dashoe said:

 

the way people keep calling him a runnng or rushing QB you woulf think this was a wishbone offense they were running and he never PASSED for over 2400yds and 24 td's 😂

I didn't say he was just a running QB though. That part of his game he is fantastic at , but I also said he is a great passer and has a great arm as well.

[Gohawks 10,369]

1 minute ago, cizastro said:

 

Not sure how you measure accuracy, but Jackson's 66.9% completion percentage is right in line with those guys you mentioned.  The only one with a better completion percentage this season is Wilson at 67.3%.

Jackson is the best out of the bunch passing for sure but let's be real here. Watch the tape and you will see his passing situations are simple. It's almost all easy routes underneath, screens, and some deep shots.  Completion percentage isn't how you judge these things. There's a reason why he's near the top in completion percentage but not even in the top half in passing yards. He doesn't do anything special passing the ball yet.

[cizastro 460]

1 minute ago, Chippa said:

Passers who throw short passes tend to have higher completion percentages. It’s not the end all be all tale for evaluating a qb’s accuracy

 

Rodgers yards per attempt - 7.4

Wilson's yards per attempt - 8.3

Mahomes' yards per attempt - 8.7

Jackson's yards per attempt - 8.1

 

Doesn't seem like he's out of line with any of those guys.  So you want to fault the guy because he doesn't throw bombs down the field every pass?  You do know who his WR's are compared to the other QB's, right? 

[vercrazy 970]

Officially lost their center for the year

 

 

[Finisher 133]

8 minutes ago, cizastro said:

 

Rodgers yards per attempt - 7.4

Wilson's yards per attempt - 8.3

Mahomes' yards per attempt - 8.7

Jackson's yards per attempt - 8.1

 

Doesn't seem like he's out of line with any of those guys.  So you want to fault the guy because he doesn't throw bombs down the field every pass?  You do know who his WR's are compared to the other QB's, right? 

He's shredding good defenses but apparently that's not good enough. Also YES imagine if those other QBs had a midget rookie and a bunch of scrubs as his WRs.