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33 minutes ago, vercrazy said:

 

Not playing a kicker EVER is stupid, but if you're in a platform that allows you to drop bench players after they've played (looking at you Yahoo) then your stats above also show the value of rostering a lotto ticket player in the morning games most weeks.

 

For example, let's say you have a roster full of position players that are too good to drop, but you see the Gurley news and Malcolm Brown is sitting on your waivers. If you drop your kicker for him, you can play out the Sunday morning games and you've either:

 

1) Hit gold and gotten a free RB2

2) Struckout and he doesn't look to be worth much in terms of trade value

 

Scenario 1 is going to happen far more often than 2, but the cost isn't 8 points a week, it's the difference between slightly below Tucker--since you probably wouldn't use this strategy if you paid extra draft capital for Tucker/Zuerlien--(50) and Boswell (43) which is roughly >1.4 points a week. That seems fair to have a weekly extra swing at a flier, which if hits will pay for the "miss" weeks pretty quickly.

 

THIS!!! Would add a “thanks” reaction but all used up for today. ☹️

 

P.S. I used this exact strategy to pick up Hunter Henry this week. Now he’s on my roster instead of being available for a waiver claim by one of the several TE-needy teams in my league with higher waiver priority. And guess what? I won my matchup by >100 points, so not having a kicker didn’t cost me one bit. 😇

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I went Gay from week 1 and I haven't regretted it yet

This is probably the worst advice I’ve ever seen on here 

Those are such 2019 rules.

On 10/13/2019 at 12:43 AM, kraftwrk_5 said:

 

Are there actually leagues without kickers? Most people hate using them, but thought they were a standard part of most leagues. Personally, my biggest complaint with kickers is outside of Zuerlein, they’re so unpredictable. And how many opportunities they get is not up to them at all. They could be an amazing kicker and put up zeroes because they play for a bad offense that rarely gets into field goal range. Or their offense is too good, and all they get is extra points, which don’t count for as much. And there is lots of inconsistency from week to week, more than what you see from other positions IMO. At least with other position groups there is more rhyme and reason and some predictability as to why they had a bad game. And higher upside on the flip side, of course.

Ofc Greg the Leg has to get practically shutout ystrday (1pt) after many mentions of being the only reliable option week to week. AHHAHAHAAaa (i'm laughing on the outside but crying on the inside)

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Damn kickers. All I needed was Prater to stay under 14 points tonight to win my matchup. Would be 4-2 and clearly in 1st due to tiebreaker. 

 

But because the lions offense is good, but not good enough to get in the end zone, I'm gonna be 3-3 and in 5th.

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24 minutes ago, bwarbiany said:

Damn kickers. All I needed was Prater to stay under 14 points tonight to win my matchup. Would be 4-2 and clearly in 1st due to tiebreaker. 

 

But because the lions offense is good, but not good enough to get in the end zone, I'm gonna be 3-3 and in 5th.

 

Do you feel like you lost this game on skill or luck? If you answered luck, then lobby your league to get rid of kickers next season. 

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3 hours ago, kraftwrk_5 said:

 

THIS!!! Would add a “thanks” reaction but all used up for today. ☹️

 

P.S. I used this exact strategy to pick up Hunter Henry this week. Now he’s on my roster instead of being available for a waiver claim by one of the several TE-needy teams in my league with higher waiver priority. And guess what? I won my matchup by >100 points, so not having a kicker didn’t cost me one bit. 😇

Side note, in espn you cant pick up a player on monday if their team played, but you can pick up anyone who was on bye. So get a MNF kicker/defense, and if you dont need one based on the points you can pick up anyone who had a bye. Bill's defense and Singletary both come to mind.

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Two more ideas:

1) Same team as opposing defense, if your kicker is getting a bunch of extra points, it's likely that the defense is getting lit up. If the defense is playing well, you should be getting a lot of field goals to offset it, aside from shutouts.

2) same team as your defense, if your defense is doing well, could be a defensive struggle. That said, it's a double hit if your defense is getting lit up.

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4 hours ago, vercrazy said:

 

Not playing a kicker EVER is stupid, but if you're in a platform that allows you to drop bench players after they've played (looking at you Yahoo) then your stats above also show the value of rostering a lotto ticket player in the morning games most weeks.

 

For example, let's say you have a roster full of position players that are too good to drop, but you see the Gurley news and Malcolm Brown is sitting on your waivers. If you drop your kicker for him, you can play out the Sunday morning games and you've either:

 

1) Hit gold and gotten a free RB2

2) Struckout and he doesn't look to be worth much in terms of trade value

 

Scenario 1 is going to happen far more often than 2, but the cost isn't 8 points a week, it's the difference between slightly below Tucker--since you probably wouldn't use this strategy if you paid extra draft capital for Tucker/Zuerlien--(50) and Boswell (43) which is roughly >1.4 points a week. That seems fair to have a weekly extra swing at a flier, which if hits will pay for the "miss" weeks pretty quickly.

I'm not quite understanding your math or your logic.

So if you have a roster full of undroppable players, you're going to drop a kicker for a potential one or two week replacement, as is the case in the Gurley example you cited? And since your team is loaded with studs, you're purposely leaving points off the board for a player you're not even starting?

Now to the math. How is not rostering a kicker costing only 1.4 points a week? Even at the low end a kicker will average 5 points a week. Obviously every game isn't close, but in my 14 team league this week 2 games were decided by 5 points or less and in my 12 team league another 2 games were. So if you don't have a kicker and lose because of it, you're flat out costing yourself a win. Wins equal playoffs.

Now the poster who has been most vocal about this strategy stated he won by over 100 points. If that's the case, then sure, go for it. But I question the competitiveness of his league if he's winning by that much on a consistent basis. 

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Again, kickers are rewarded when their offense fails to score. In fact, the farther from the end zone the offense fails, the more points a kicker gets for a FG. 

 

I lost tonight because on two occasions the Detroit defense or special teams got a turnover, the offense failed to do *anything* with it, giving Prater FG opportunities. 

 

Damn kickers. 

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20 minutes ago, Mest30 said:

I'm not quite understanding your math or your logic.

So if you have a roster full of undroppable players, you're going to drop a kicker for a potential one or two week replacement, as is the case in the Gurley example you cited? And since your team is loaded with studs, you're purposely leaving points off the board for a player you're not even starting?

Now to the math. How is not rostering a kicker costing only 1.4 points a week? Even at the low end a kicker will average 5 points a week. Obviously every game isn't close, but in my 14 team league this week 2 games were decided by 5 points or less and in my 12 team league another 2 games were. So if you don't have a kicker and lose because of it, you're flat out costing yourself a win. Wins equal playoffs.

Now the poster who has been most vocal about this strategy stated he won by over 100 points. If that's the case, then sure, go for it. But I question the competitiveness of his league if he's winning by that much on a consistent basis. 

 

Malcolm Brown isn't the best example, but I did this strategy to hold Chark, and I could have been done it with McLaurin as well before his breakout, and would have payed off well. You're not looking to make a pick up just to use him for a week, you're doing this move to see if a player is worth holding on to long-term. If he continues his breakout, you drop another player instead, but if they bust, you pick up a late starting kicker who could still easily just as well put up the same pts as someone drafted on a weekly basis. If you do this move sparingly, the difference between ww kickers and starting kickers in a weekly basis isn't much, it can only add up season-long if you actually do it every week, otherwise the points between kickers in any given week is barely much (Week 6 - Zuerlein 1 pt, McManus 13 pts (5% owned.)) It's a small risk for a potential big reward when done sparingly.

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4 minutes ago, AJx88x said:

 

Malcolm Brown isn't the best example, but I did this strategy to hold Chark, and I could have been done it with McLaurin as well, and would have payed off well. You're not looking to make a pick up just to use him for a week, you're doing this move to see if a player is worth holding on to long-term. If he continues his breakout, you drop another player instead, but if they bust, you pick up a late starting kicker who could still easily just as well put up the same pts as someone drafted on a weekly basis. If you do this move sparingly, the difference between ww kickers and starting kickers in a weekly basis isn't much, it can only add up season-long if you actually do it every week, otherwise the points between kickers in any given week is barely much (Week 6 - Zuerlein 1 pt, McManus 13 pts (5% owned.)) It's a small risk for a potential big reward when done sparingly.

Ok that makes more sense. But the person who started this originally stated he doesn't start a kicker "most weeks." Post 2 of this thread. But I understand the logic now. 

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16 minutes ago, bwarbiany said:

Again, kickers are rewarded when their offense fails to score. In fact, the farther from the end zone the offense fails, the more points a kicker gets for a FG. 

 

I lost tonight because on two occasions the Detroit defense or special teams got a turnover, the offense failed to do *anything* with it, giving Prater FG opportunities. 

 

Damn kickers. 

 

Kickers are rewarded for putting points on the board when their offense is unable to.  Kickers score more points by making more difficult kicks.

Pretty easy to spin those two sentences another way when you're looking at objectively rather than ranting after a loss.

I'm not saying I'm against leagues going no kickers, but these reasons don't make any sense.

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On 10/12/2019 at 11:25 PM, aapox said:

Leagues without kickers are dumb. To each their own, but imho kickers are a huge part of real football and scoring and therefore should be for fantasy.


So are OL. Should we draft them and include pancakes as a category? Defensive players are a huge part of real football. Not too many IDP leagues out there. Punters are a huge part of the game...how many leagues include them? The whole “real football” part is ridiculous to me. I play in three leagues with kickers and one without...the one without kickers is glorious. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 7:23 AM, joshua18 said:

 

What the heck does Bernie Sanders have to do with FFL?

Kickers are important, and easier to predict than skill position players. Lazy owners want to get rid of them. 

 

 

You must not know very much about politics to not understand his analogy.

I do agree that kickers are good because you can differentiate yourself at that position with some research.  Ultimately it is as volatile as other positions, but you can make better bets on your kickers with some knowledge.

For example, there are simple things like checking the weather.  If you knew the Pats-Giants game was going to be really windy, you wouldn't have started Nugent.  I bet a lot of people started Nugent figuring the Pats would score a ton against the Giants and therefore he should score a lot.  What we saw was Belichick passing on 45 yards field goals and going for it on 4th because of the wind.

Other things that might factor into it are teams that are aggressive about going for it on 4th.  Some coaches are predisposed to settling for field goals, whereas a guy like Riverboat Ron goes for it a lot.  This hurts especially when they are near the goal line and it's an easy field goal.  Slye has been a stud kicker despite this, but he could probably be even better if he had more attempts.

Kicker is an opportunity for an owner to gain an advantage over other owners.  Shouldn't be dropped.

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18 hours ago, kraftwrk_5 said:

 

THIS!!! Would add a “thanks” reaction but all used up for today. ☹️

 

P.S. I used this exact strategy to pick up Hunter Henry this week. Now he’s on my roster instead of being available for a waiver claim by one of the several TE-needy teams in my league with higher waiver priority. And guess what? I won my matchup by >100 points, so not having a kicker didn’t cost me one bit. 😇

I never knew there was a limit on "reacts". I wonder what the limit is.

I'd be very cautious not playing a kicker, but I didn't know that you could drop a bench player who already played in Yahoo. If that's true then that's invaluable information. Like the guy said, that's a free lotto ticket allowing you to speculate on a player and actually see how he does before deciding to drop him again.

Question though, are most Yahoo leagues of the format where you pick up a player and you can immediately insert them into your lineup? Or do you only have access to the player starting the next day?

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14 hours ago, Hero202 said:

 

Kickers are rewarded for putting points on the board when their offense is unable to.  Kickers score more points by making more difficult kicks.

Pretty easy to spin those two sentences another way when you're looking at objectively rather than ranting after a loss.

I'm not saying I'm against leagues going no kickers, but these reasons don't make any sense.

Yes, I'm ranting.

It just seems like there's more variance in kickers than basically any other position, including TE. The difference is that you truly elite TEs are going to be consistent scorers and have value. And even TE is often instrumental in getting a team into scoring position, even if they're just out there blocking and don't catch TD passes themselves. A kicker is entirely dependent on whether his offense (with him off the field) gets into FG range, and whether his offense (with him off the field) scores a TD or not.

The level of control you have as a fantasy owner to figure out kicker production is nil. Sometimes you can play the odds (good kicker on a strong offense) and over the course of a season you'll have a few extra points at the end, maybe helping you with a tiebreaker. But can you truly effectively play matchups with kickers? Per the OP's question, do people engage in kicker strategies to play matchups, and do those strategies actually pay off over the course of a season? I'm not sure.

In fantasy, we include a kicker because we've always done it, and because kickers (like other skill players) actually are involved in scoring points. I just don't think it adds much to the strategy and value of the game. Heck, I'd rather have IDPs than kickers. 

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4 minutes ago, bwarbiany said:

But can you truly effectively play matchups with kickers?

Interesting question.

I'd speculate that, more often that not, if you had a league where it was possible that you could stream kickers all year from good offenses (let's say arbitrarily top ten in points per game) playing against bad defenses (again arbitrarily bottom 10 in points allowed) you'd be among your league leaders in points from that position, and outscore the "big name kickers."

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18 minutes ago, bwarbiany said:

The level of control you have as a fantasy owner to figure out kicker production is nil.

 

I dunno.  Kicker is very hard to predict for sure, with the reasons you listed. 

Having said that, there are definitely kickers that are better than others.  More accurate, bigger leg, etc.  There was one year I was expecting Gostkowski to be dropped midseason during his bye and I was planning to pick him up, and his owner kept him on his bench and dropped a RB.  That's how good he was that year.

Also, it might just be me, but I have fun rooting for my kicker.  I get bonus points for FGs over 50 yards (they're 5 points instead of 3) and that's basically a touchdown.  I get almost as excited when my kicker boots a 50 yarder as a TD because of this.  Plus it's also kinda fun to root for his offense to get in FG range, then I root against the offense.

As for how unpredictable they are and whether that detracts from the game...I mean...is anyone really predictable?  You can get mad because your kicker's team got shut out and therefore he had 0 points, but how different is that from having a RB and the team gives up a ton of points early, and now they're throwing all the time?

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1 hour ago, cbsholy said:

I never knew there was a limit on "reacts". I wonder what the limit is.

I'd be very cautious not playing a kicker, but I didn't know that you could drop a bench player who already played in Yahoo. If that's true then that's invaluable information. Like the guy said, that's a free lotto ticket allowing you to speculate on a player and actually see how he does before deciding to drop him again.

Question though, are most Yahoo leagues of the format where you pick up a player and you can immediately insert them into your lineup? Or do you only have access to the player starting the next day?

 

Yup - I play Yahoo, and what you mentioned above is the key to my whole strategy.  If the guy you pick up sucks, oh well, you can just drop him and pick up a kicker going Sunday night or Monday if needed.  Or if your guy hits, you can drop one of your scrubs who underperformed or got injured that day and use that spot to pick up a Sunday night / Monday kicker.  Could do this to pick up a player in the later games at any position, really, not just kicker.  The only caveat is the guy you drop has to be on your bench - it won't let you drop a starter and immediately plug somebody else in.  But if he's on your bench, doesn't matter if he already played, you can make the change for THAT SAME WEEK.  Gives you soooo much more roster flexibility doing it this way rather than just setting your team and lineup by Sunday AM and never making any last-minute changes. 

I should mention that this may not work in every league depending on the league settings.  Some leagues put all players on waivers during the early kickoff on Sunday, which would limit your ability to make these last-minute roster changes.  But if your league is like mine, where they go on waivers once their game starts, then you have up until their game kicks off to make a last-minute change like this.  Another loophole that someone I think mentioned above is that you can also drop bench players who aren't working out to pick up somebody on their bye, which can be great too.  Know your league settings first, then find a way to use them for your advantage.  ;) 

 

 

 

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Interesting thread, I might as well try it out.... playing for the first time in my 8 teamer and everyone makes playoffs LOL. What's there to lose??

Average weekly scores are 110-150 and while there are close victories they are far from common. I drafted Harrison Butker KC - K because he was ranked as a Top 10 Kicker but it does me no good when KC is so good at scoring TDs instead of FGs. They're also playing this Thursday night so revealing my cards (points) like the OP said is probably undesirable as I can add a last minute kicker before any of the Sunday 1PM games....

 

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I just realized the Kicker Point Values are fuxked up too!!!!! Look at this LOL:

Kickers League Value Yahoo Default Value
Field Goals 0-19 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 20-29 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 30-39 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 40-49 Yards 2 4
Field Goals 50+ Yards 3 5
Field Goals Missed 0-19 Yards -1 0
Field Goals Missed 20-29 Yards -1 0
Field Goals Missed 30-39 Yards -1 0
Point After Attempt Made 1  
Point After Attempt Missed -1 0

So Mason Crosby in one league had 12 FPoints last week but in my current custom league he only scored 6......

Guys like Prater who blew up last week meanwhile are sitting on my WW.... 

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9 hours ago, mtx said:

I just realized the Kicker Point Values are fuxked up too!!!!! Look at this LOL:

Kickers League Value Yahoo Default Value
Field Goals 0-19 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 20-29 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 30-39 Yards 1 3
Field Goals 40-49 Yards 2 4
Field Goals 50+ Yards 3 5
Field Goals Missed 0-19 Yards -1 0
Field Goals Missed 20-29 Yards -1 0
Field Goals Missed 30-39 Yards -1 0
Point After Attempt Made 1  
Point After Attempt Missed -1 0

So Mason Crosby in one league had 12 FPoints last week but in my current custom league he only scored 6......

Guys like Prater who blew up last week meanwhile are sitting on my WW.... 

 

Yeah dude, in your league I think it’s a no-brainer. Not too hard for a kicker to wind up with negative points lol!!! 😂

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Hail kickers! These guys score points too! Never understood the crap those guys get. It's all fun and games until a kicker misses to give a team win or a playoff win. Then, and only then, do you feel for those guys and the pressure of their job and all the crap they get. Only referees are more scrutinized. 

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